PCPER.com: 5 GHZ+ Phenom II Overclock on Dry Ice, 6Ghz on LN2

[Helmore]

Well he certainly seems to have connections. But it's not necessarily a given which is why I asked.

That makes me think of another question I'd be interested to know: Does foxconn have any plans for future enthusiast AM2+/AM3 boards?

My guess would be yes, they already have AM2+ motherboard and I don't see them stopping production on those anytime soon. Whether they will attempt anything for AMD like their 'bloodrage' and similar boards, I'm not sure. I'd see they will but probably not as pricey as their Intel boards and thus not as high quality. AMD won't be the top performer and people will consider them to be a good choice when on a budget, which makes it kind of weird to make very expensive motherboards for AMD.

[Tony]

saaya

Who told you they were hand picked samples? i read they were random picked and this is an average of what you can expect.

For those asking if I was there, i was not, lots of friends were though and we supplied hardware for the show...as such i was able to ask questions as this story was breaking.

You just have to love XS for this no CPU-Z it did not happen attitude...i still have an unreleased Intel CPU here that fools CPU-Z, so for me the reports on multiple websites all claiming the same from reporters who were at the event means a lot more.

I will restate what i stated earlier...the industry needs this, competition is not only good for the consumer it drives technology forward at a faster pace.

Now we wait to see how it benchmarks...

[Eson]

If i see more of these clocks then i will never doubt AMD again.

[biohead]

i myself was hinting that they fixed the coldbug before this news came to light... as with regular phenom HTT base ref. clock and temperature seem to be unrelated, and that's big in itself.

guess it's confirmed now

[dinos22]

average 3.6 on air with 1.4v, more voltage doesnt help really...


some chips can do 4ghz on air (TRUE) with 1.4v but not that many...

thanks for the info
this is very useful to know where we are at exactly

so i assume massman is overly optimistic when he says CPC is same as core i7 ??

[junior-21-]

Very very interesting! A lot of things are starting to convince me that it might be true! So looking forward to own one of these 45nm AMDs!

[STaRGaZeR]

No CPU-Z...it did not happen!!!...come on guys we all know this happened you don't need a CPU-Z as all the press there actually saw it real time.

No, maybe you do know, not us. We are not blind believers, or at least me. I would never trust a hypothetical 8GHz Core2/i7 until I see the benches and the numbers. This is not a religion you know

[Miss Banana]

Awesome news, but question:

Up to what point is the new southbridge responsible for achieving these speeds?

I have a 790X MB now with the old SB, and kinda wonder if all these wonderful OC stories may not be for me, unless I buy a new MB.

[Stukov]

Its funny how 6Ghz reported by everyone is now 5Ghz+ by everyone

And not even 4Ghz on air?

I wonder what more will change.

And you seem to want a flamewar?

sorry for the difference... AMD Is limiting what we can say about the processor right now... What you saw before I edited this thread was correct though.

http://forums.legitreviews.com/about...4c0729#p129466

Didn't you read the thread? (I mean XS thread this was stated earlier when someone pointed out it said 5.x Ghz not 6 anymore) Do I want a flamewar, absolutely not. Am I expecting certain indviduals to hit the ground spinning? Yes, very much so. And I wouldn't mind a good old fashion arguement/discussion, which seems some peeps are already having.

[T_Flight]

They are probably backing off because they don't wanna have to live up to 6GHz and realize that those were exceptional chips. We've got one person that works with this stuff saying not many will do that.

If that's the case, I applaud them. It's better to be careful until you know what the release stuff is gonna do on average, not just the high end.

[herderien]

good news if AMD is back for consumers !

[dread77]

saaya

Who told you they were hand picked samples? i read they were random picked and this is an average of what you can expect.

AMD also said that these weren't totally cherry picked samples and that these results are about average from what they are seeing with early samples. If that proves true on retail samples it will make for an interesting part!

Source

IMO there is no such thing like Totally Handpicked and Partially Handpicked.
Either you choose to test 100 out of 1000, or test the whole batch you are selecting the best possible overclocking cpu from a certain ammount.

[tiborrr]

Congrats to AMD, waiting on more results and benchmarks. Looks like february '09 might bring me 790GX DDR3 + Deneb BE

[Stukov]

Source

IMO there is no such thing like Totally Handpicked and Partially Handpicked.
Either you choose to test 100 out of 1000, or test the whole batch you are selecting the best possible overclocking cpu from a certain ammount.

Based on how AMD manufactures that actually makes sense. They will have multiple chip batches that may get tweaked mid process. What they may be saying is they didn't cherry pick the processor but, selected from a good batch.

[Hornet331]

If i see more of these clocks then i will never doubt AMD again.

worse mistake ever.

My approach, doubt everything form everyone, everytime.

[STaRGaZeR]

My approach, doubt everything form everyone, everytime.

[SAE]

Great progress AMD was showing there. They just had to catch up... it's been said in this thread several times. The market just needed it.
I'd luv to see some benches at 4.5GHz (SS phase) now. Really looking forward to them.

[Hans de Vries]

I am struggling to believe this statement without the IV curves and Ion/Ioff curves to assess the validity of this.... it just sounds way way to much.

here is what I mean, Intel's drive current for PMOS is about 1000 uA/um at an Ioff of 100 nA/um ... that is a ratio of 10:1, for AMD to be 10 times better would mean that at a Ion of 600ish that the EETimes article is quoting ... their Ioff would need to be 6 nA/um this is an order of manitude lower than any PMOS Ioff ever reported for a high performance high Vt proces. Ever.

It is just hard to believe.... hopefully AMD/IBM will produce some data at IEDM in a few weeks and we will be able to see if this guys claims are true... I sincerely doubt it.

Thie abstract below was already a while on IEDM's technical program for
December. Not yet implemented on current Shanghai's but still to come.

Notice that a NMOS drive current of 1354μA/μm (without HKMG) is the same
as on Intel's HKMG process . The current Shanghai has been measured to
have a PMOS drive current of 660 μA/μm. Much less as the 857μA/μm
mentioned here.

27.7 Implementation and Optimization of Asymmetric Transistors in Advanced SOI CMOS
Technologies for High Performance Microprocessors,

J. Hoentschel, A. Wei, M. Wiatr, A. Gehring, T.
Scheiper, R. Mulfinger, T. Feudel, T. Lingner, A. Poock, S. Muehle, C. Krueger, T. Hermann*, W. Klix*,
R. Stenzel*, R. Stephan, P. Huebler, T. Kammler, P. Shi, M. Raab, D. Greenlaw, M. Horstmann, AMD
Fab 36 LLC & Co. KG, *University of Applied Science Dresden

Sub-40nm Lgate asymmetric halo and source/drain extension transistors have been integrated into leadingedge
65nm and 45nm PD-SOI CMOS technologies. The asymmetric NMOS and PMOS saturation drive
currents improve up to 12% and 10%, respectively, resulting in performance of NIDSAT=1354μA/μm and
PIDSAT=857μA/μm. Product-level implementation show a speed benefit of 12%.

http://www.his.com/~iedm/program/sessions/s27.html

Regards, Hans

[Helmore]

Notice that a NMOS drive current of 1354μA/μm is the same as on Intel's HKMG process without the HKMG.

Uhm I'm not exactly getting what you are saying.
Are you saying that the NMOS driver current of 1354μA/μm on AMD's 45 nm. process is the same as on Intel's 45 nm. HKMG process, even though AMD's process does not use HKMG? Or is that NMOS driver current of AMD's 45 nm. process the same as what Intel would get if they had a 45 nm. process that did not use HK materials and metal gates? I'm guessing the former....

Could it be that their C3 revision of Shanghai and Deneb will implement these optimizations? That could explain the lower TDPs on their AM3 Deneb chips.

[Calmatory]

No, maybe you do know, not us. We are not blind believers, or at least me. I would never trust a hypothetical 8GHz Core2/i7 until I see the benches and the numbers. This is not a religion you know

Not even if Core2 was shrunk to 32nm and there were a lot of tweaks made to enable them clock higher(E.g. AMD got rid of coldbug, higher clocks come from better process), and when there are multiple people and websites claiming the exact same? CPU-Z has it's flaws, it can be tricked.

[v_rr]

Source

IMO there is no such thing like Totally Handpicked and Partially Handpicked.
Either you choose to test 100 out of 1000, or test the whole batch you are selecting the best possible overclocking cpu from a certain ammount.

weren't totally cherry picked

[Calmatory]

They are probably backing off because they don't wanna have to live up to 6GHz and realize that those were exceptional chips. We've got one person that works with this stuff saying not many will do that.

If that's the case, I applaud them. It's better to be careful until you know what the release stuff is gonna do on average, not just the high end.

Still AMD is not claiming that their CPUs clock to 6 GHz. If they claim something, it is that their some/at least one of their CPUs can clock to 6 GHz.

People can just use "Wheres the claimed 6 GHz chips now? " to troll. I'm waiting for this from Shi.. someone.

[dread77]

weren't totally cherry picked

I didn't say something different...

I am just disputing the term "Partially".

[Hans de Vries]

Uhm I'm not exactly getting what you are saying.
Are you saying that the NMOS driver current of 1354μA/μm on AMD's 45 nm. process is the same as on Intel's 45 nm. HKMG process, even though AMD's process does not use HKMG? Or is that NMOS driver current of AMD's 45 nm. process the same as what Intel would get if they had a 45 nm. process that did not use HK materials and metal gates?

I'm guessing the former....

Indeed.

Could it be that their C3 revision of Shanghai and Deneb will implement these optimizations?

I don't know, but I guess not. I guess it would be a later revision.

That could explain the lower TDPs on their AM3 Deneb chips.

Is it really lower? Once you need to increase voltage to go faster you
get a 3rd power law:

95W x (3.0 GHz / 2.8 GHz)^3 = 123W

So 95W for a 2.8GHz versus 125W for a 3.0GHz seems inline with this.


Regards, Hans

[Helmore]

Indeed.

I don't know, but I guess not. I guess it would be a later revision.

Is it really lower? Once you need to increase voltage to go faster you
get a 3rd power law:

95W x (3.0 GHz / 2.8 GHz)^3 = 123W

So 95W for a 2.8GHz versus 125W for a 3.0GHz seems inline with this.

Regards, Hans

Ah ok.

I was talking about the fact that the AM2+ Deneb chip at 2,8 GHz. has a TDP rating of 125 W., while the AM3 version of pretty much the same chip has a TDP rating of 95 W. It's not exactly a night and day difference, but at least there is some improvement.