790 corruption issues?

[saaya]

EDIT: updated this post so people dont have to fight their way through this post jungle

There seem to be several issues with the 790 chipset:
1. windows/hdd corruption/ system instability
2. FSB holes
3. HDD corruption/destruction
4. real voltages are notably lower than what is set in bios (mostly applies to nvidia reference boards)

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1. While on other chipsets running unstable or semi stable settings causes a BSOD, system freeze, restart or power down, on 790 it tends to corrupt the windows install very easily. Nvidia officially admitted that theese issues exist, but claims its a highly isolated issue and only happens when overclocking the chipset to very high speeds.

The problem now is that for some reason many 790 boards are not stable even at stock or below stock settings. this whole issues is even more frustrating as it seems to be very difficult to determine system stability... even when all widespread tools and benchmarks seem to run fine for hours, the system might still freeze/shut off or corrupt after some more hours or days.

It seems that if a configuration passes all stability tests beeing under full load, it might still be unstable in idle or when switching from idle to load.
The curious thing is that, as you can see from the poll, around half the people are not having any problems, while the other half are having a really hard time getting their 790 based systems stable.

There are 3 theories what could cause this:
a- VTT / GTL ref issues
b- Widespread Chipset yields (some chipsets work fine, others dont)
c- Bad BIOS coding

VTT seems to play a major role in this, it seems that tweaking vtt/gtl makes it possible for some people to get their systems 100% stable or at least improve stability notably. According to one mainboard manufacturer the 790 chipset has very small tolerances when it comes to vtt, and hitting the sweet spot to get a system stable is not easy. Depending on what cpu you use, if its a quad or dualcore, and if its made in 65nm or 45nm, the vtt window shifts. this of course makes it very difficult if not impossible to program one "auto" setting in bios which just works with all cpus.

Chipset yields, this could be the cause, especially since the 680 chipset, the predecessor of the 790 suffered from very similar issues and in this case its widely accepted that there was a high variation between the boards. some would simply clock awesome, others wouldnt even be stable at stock, which is exactly what we are seeing here. The 790 chipset has 2 settings which impact system and memory performance greatly, mysteriously referred to as P1 and P2 by nvidia. Nobody knows what exactly theese settings do... they improve system performance, mostly memory performance, but they seem to stress the chipset a lot. some people can run p1 and p2 enabled even at high speeds and still have the system stable, while some can not even enable them at stock speeds without losing stability. this again hints towards a high chipset variation.

Bad BIOS coding is unlikely to be the cause, there have been several new BIOS releases that improved the situation slightly, but the problems are not fixed at all.


After all it seems like its a combination of all 3.
the chipset has a very tight tolerance window for vtt
AND
there is a strong variaty between chipsets, some having a higher tolerance and a wider vtt/ gtl ref window than others.
AND
the issues are too complex to be fixed easily in a new BIOS, new BIOSes might improve this but a perfect fix for all configuration seems impossible.

So what can you do?
Ensure good Chipset cooling
Increase the SPP (northbridge) voltage to 1.35V+
Increase the MCP (southbridge) voltage to 1.55V+
Try to adjust vtt and gtl ref values manually and find the sweet spot
Here are some hints for you:
65nm CPUs usually like ~1.4v vtt and gtl ref settings of .63-.68
45nm CPUs usually like ~1.2v vtt and gtl ref settings of .58-.65

Here are some example configurations that work for the people that posted them. Please note you might not be able to copy them 1:1 but will have to tweak them a bit.

65nm Quad example from 5010, again thanks a lot for sharing your results man

Q6600 G0 @ 3.55GHz
444 /1777FSB x 8
Linked and Synced
P1 + P2 Enabled
Timings: 7-7-7-21-1T (All other sub-timings auto)

CPU Vcore: 1.50 (Bios)
FSB VTT: 1.35
Memory: 1.95V
SPP: 1.40V
MCP: 1.50V

GTLVREF +35mv all lanes (works at +%2.6 - +%2.7 no matter the VTT all the way down to 1.20VTT and even upto 1900FSB)

Virtualization: enable
All other CPU features: disabled

another 65nm Quad example from tekjunkie, again thanks a lot for sharing your results

QDR/RAM=1780 Unlinked
PCIE1/PCIE2 = 100
SPP<-> MCP= Auto
vCORE=1.375(1.344 in windows per cpuz)
Loadline =Enabled
vTT = 1.28
PLL=Auto
vDIMM=1.9
vSPP =1.46
vMCP = 1.55
CPU GTL_REF0 = -29mV
CPU GTL_REF1=-32mV

------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. FSB Holes do exist for some people, while they dont exist for others...

they are not always at the same speeds... they seem to be common at around 400fsb though. basically the system will not boot or be highly unstable at a certain fsb range, and above and below this range it works just fine.
this seems to be caused by bad/too agressive BIOS tweaking from Nvidia/the manufacturers. The latest BIOS files seem to have improved this a lot...
try to set as many timings and settings to auto if you want to get rid of an fsb hole... but generally speaking its not worth the hassle, just try to find the spot where the fsb hole ends and run a higher fsb that works fine.


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3. this seems to be caused by memory related/chipset instability issues... im not sure though, and nobody really seems to be, if this is only based on the SPP, the 790 northdridge, or if it could also be caused by the southbridge.

Nvidia is recycling an older chipset part and using it as the southbridge on 790 boards. this older part is known to have caused a LOT of hdd corruption problems, so its likely that this is still the case. especially since there have been numerous reports of HDDs that were actually killed.
So far it seems around 8-10 hdds were killed... nobody really knows how this is even possible as a bad signal or corrupted data should not render a hdd unusable... but it did happen to several people...

Im keeping this as a seperate point since there might be two causes for the hdd and data corruption. the spp instability issues and the sb data corruption issues. There are a few people who used a raid controller card in a pciE slot connected to the northbridge, so its absolutely impossible the SB alone causes all the data corruption issues.

How can this be fixed? i dont know... Can this be fixed? i dont think anybody knows... the cases in which hdds died are rather insulated... only around 8 people reported this... If you want to be 100% sure it doesnt happen to you, id recommend you to use a raid controller card.


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4. there is no fix to this that im aware of, though it might be possible to reprogram the bios and just rename the voltage options to what they really are.


If you have anything to add or want to comment please post here in as much detail as you can. In any case, please keep in mind that its important to send as many details about this to nvidia and their partners so they can work on this and fix this issue. and more importantly, that they are aware it IS a serious issue and notice how widespread it is. because atm nvidia seems to be playing it down and not taking very serious.

[Achill3uS]

nice thread again saaya, i will post my issues asap, don't want to write fool things too early... BUT, as i recognised my S2E don't likes 1600.0mhz mem speed (0507 bios, linked, unlinked), my OCZ DDR3 1600 Platinum kits are completely unstable at that speed (no win boot), but 1605mhz has no problems, its rock stable... at first i was thinking the ram's are bad or smthing, but as i heard from other guys that 790i has some fsb hole's, maybe 400.0fsb is one of them...

[elmor]

I got my HDD corrupted by the S2E board twice, and both times it was when I tried to boot with the rams running extremly unstable (trying to push high frequency ~1050Mhz).

The main reason here I believe is that most boot with these unstable settings directly from bios, and not boot into windows at lower frequency and then increase from there.

[Dumo]

Its a carbon copy of its predecessor....680i

[Achill3uS]

Its a carbon copy of its predecessor....680i

it's not so hot & likes high fsb with wolf and york too...
my opinion now its one of the best chipsets for ddr3...
and hey, show me a ddr3 mobo without ANY issues

[OBR]

I have Striker II Ex and XFX referrence board with TeamGroup DDR3-1800 and Corsair Dominator 1800C7 and two radi0 arrays 2x 74Raptors and 2x 150Raptors and ... i have now with 0507 bios fully stable setup at 500MHz .. CPU is Q9300, 2x Teamgroup at 2000MHz 24-9-9-9-2T Linked with auto voltages and prime95, occct are fully stable ... i will post some screens later, when i will be at home

[xt0m]

I've had similar probs as Achill3us with the S2E vs. an OCZ DDR3-1600 Platinum kit, only I couldn't get it stable at all - got hdd corrupted as well.

Now on ref/XFX 790 and no issues (yet)

[BenchZowner]

and hey, show me a ddr3 mobo without ANY issues

A Asus P5K3 Deluxe with a BIOS coded by DFI

Dumo was referring to the SATA Corruption issues ( by saying "it's like its predecessor" ) not generally

[eternal_fantasy]

Great thread saaya

Right, where do I begin...

ASUS Striker II Extreme setup; BIOS 507
ASUS Striker II Extreme
Intel QX9650/E8400/QX6850
BFG 9800GX2
2 x CellShock DDR3-1800
2 x 32GB Mtron Pro 7000 Series 2.5" SSD 120Gb/s 90Gb/s RAID0 32Kb stripe size
Areca 1231DML SATAII RAID Controller 2Gb DDR2-533 Cache
Antec TruePower Quattro 850W

2 weeks running this board. Updated to BIOS version 0507. I was very quickly and easily able to run my QX9650 4.05Ghz@450FSB/9xMulti/Memory Linked&Synced 1800-8-7-6-21. All stability tests (OCCT/ORTHOS) ran flawless. However very quickly BSOD starts to happen upon restart/shutdown the system, almost always happens midway through PCMarkVantage, due to system files corrupted.

Upon closer tweaking/inspection, corruption happens when the FSB is altered from their default value (i.e. 333). Running the system at different CPU multiplier, the memory linked/unlink has no relevance.
Setting the system at a VERY relaxed settings:
350FSB, 9xMulti, 1400Mhz 8-7-6-21 1.9V Memory.
Windows were installed with default settings, and once installation completed, a system files integrity check was performed. Once the system files are found to be intact the above settings are applied. ORTHOS and OCCT are ran, 2 hours pass without error, system were restarted several times, 3DMark06 ran, system BSOD on 3rd run, after system restarted, system file integrity check ran. System files found corrupted.

Many people seem to feel their S2E is stable because they ran ORTHOS/OCCT for 6+ hours etc, but ORTHOS/OCCT don't access corrupted critical system files causing BSOD. Unless a system files integrity check is performed, you can not be sure your system is corruption free. I can do exactly the same thing, posting hours of ORTHOS runs with Screenshot of CPU-Z showing 4.05Ghz CPU, 450FSB, 1800-7-7-6 Memory. Followed by a . And maybe even a . BUT all of those are mute points when data are corrupted by the motherboard, which may not be obvious to the user in the beginning.
A screenshot of a scan for system file integrity should also accompany screenshot of your system settings after at least a few hours since the overclock settings has been applied, after some system restarts and stability test runs.

To check if your system contains corrupted data:
System file integrity scan:
- search for "cmd"
- right click-run as administrator
- type in "sfc /scannow"
after scanning it will tell you if your windows is corrupted and weather it was able to fix the corrupted data(most probably not).



EVGA Reference 790i Ultra setup; BIOS P03, P03R2
EVGA NVIDIA nForce 790i Ultra SLi
Intel QX9650 (EK Supreme)
2 x BFG 9800GX2
2 x CellShock DDR3-1800
2 x 32GB Mtron Pro 7000 Series 2.5" SSD 120Gb/s 90Gb/s RAID0 32Kb stripe size
Areca 1231DML SATAII RAID Controller 2Gb DDR2-533 Cache
Antec TruePower Quattro 850W

Used both the P03 and the unreleased P03R2 BIOS for the EVGA reference board. I have tried both Linked&synced/Unlinked, a range of FSB up to 480Mhz, memory up to 1900 8-7-6-21. Currently at 425FSB, 9.5x multi, 1700-7-6-6-18. Been using these settings for 2 weeks, running ORTHOS/OCCT/3DMark06/PCMarkVantage/CoD4 etc, ZERO corruption issue.

Hope all this fuss is sorted out quickly with a BIOS update. Such a shame that the beautiful ASUS board is ing up your data.

edit: all settings except vCore and vDIMM are on AUTO. Raising voltages on the S2E seems to cause more instability.

[3oh6]

A Asus P5K3 Deluxe with a BIOS coded by DFI

as much as i love the P5K3-Dlx, i have had three of them and two wouldn't do over 930MHz stable with any memory and only 1 was capable of running single 32M SPi at 1000MHz+ and needed a vMCH mod to do it. i wouldn't exactly call the P35 a DDR3 powerhouse.

in the same breath...my EVGA reference has been a monster thus far, 1000MHz 8-7-6 100% stable HCI / Prime95 Blend / OCCT / 3Dmark suite at a paltry 1.93 vDIMM (actual). the Maximus Extreme couldn't even do that at 2.00v with this Corsair kit. screenshots pending approval.

as for corruption issues, none over here and i have been running 24/7 at 500*8 1:2 8-7-6 for a couple days now. everything from Prime to AM3 and every benchmark in-between. the only problem was when some idiot knocked his video card out of the slot when measuring vDIMM with HCI Memtest running

[eternal_fantasy]

I have Striker II Ex and XFX referrence board with TeamGroup DDR3-1800 and Corsair Dominator 1800C7 and two radi0 arrays 2x 74Raptors and 2x 150Raptors and ... i have now with 0507 bios fully stable setup at 500MHz .. CPU is Q9300, 2x Teamgroup at 2000MHz 24-9-9-9-2T Linked with auto voltages and prime95, occct are fully stable ... i will post some screens later, when i will be at home

Please also add a screenshot of a completed, corruption free system file integrity check to that post. Thanks

[LockBreaker]

I hope the Foxconn Dreadnought works better.

I have a strong reliance to that board.

[BenchZowner]

as much as i love the P5K3-Dlx, i have had three of them and two wouldn't do over 930MHz stable with any memory and only 1 was capable of running single 32M SPi at 1000MHz+ and needed a vMCH mod to do it. i wouldn't exactly call the P35 a DDR3 powerhouse.

MCH ( NB ) luck of draw.
Newer batches have nearly 100% in reaching DDR3-2000 stable.

I can't trash my newest P5K3 Deluxe as it does DDR3-2056 8-7-6-21 stable unmodded

[3oh6]

MCH ( NB ) luck of draw.
Newer batches have nearly 100&#37; in reaching DDR3-2000 stable.

I can't trash my newest P5K3 Deluxe as it does DDR3-2056 8-7-6-21 stable unmodded

what?!?! so...like...ummm...how bout you sell that P5K3

for benching, it was my best board but yours would be something else. just keep in mind, yours is the exception to the rule because i highly doubt that i could go out and buy 5 boards and have any one of them do what yours does. my EVGA seems to be the standard for these guys.

[BenchZowner]

what?!?! so...like...ummm...how bout you sell that P5K3

Ok... I'll sell you that P5K3D in exchange with a 6GHz benchable QX9650/QX9770

for benching, it was my best board but yours would be something else.

Yeah, it's a very solid benching board. Never really let me down.
Oh except my max stable FSB with my current QX9650....which is 460MHz... I'd like to have it up to 470MHz ( so I can run my benches with the RAM at DDR3-1880 6-5-5-16 ).
My favorite Asus motherboard... and I've tested several Asus boards...I believe that says it all

[dinos22]

just like elmor

i corrupted a couple of installs while testing RAM
frequency and timings too ambitious heh

it was instant corruption no more HDD hehehehe

board = reference 790i

got some nice slipstreamed XPPro SP3 and win2008 server SP1 ready to put on
i normally use memtest but didn't have my FDD handy and actually wanted to kill it off to be honest so that i can reinstall new OSes heh

[Achill3uS]

I've had similar probs as Achill3us with the S2E vs. an OCZ DDR3-1600 Platinum kit, only I couldn't get it stable at all - got hdd corrupted as well.

Now on ref/XFX 790 and no issues (yet)

hmm interesting, so it's not stable for you at 1600mhz 7-7-7? how much voltage feed? wich slots?

and what is this hdd corruption thing btw? i'm using 2pcs sata hdd but still don't expected any issues with them...

A Asus P5K3 Deluxe with a BIOS coded by DFI

Dumo was referring to the SATA Corruption issues ( by saying "it's like its predecessor" ) not generally

haha, your p5k3 is kick*ss but don't forgot the 1600 ram deliver wich never give you any signal except at low clocks don't remember maybe 5:8...

and that's alright, i was thinking on generally

[fellix_bg]

There is an old and simple way to verify the integrity of DMA transfers (the main cause for data corruption):

* Take a fairly large file (5GB or more); if there isn't any, just make a RAR archive from a bunch of files, without compression;
* Give the file a simple name (single letter, for instance);
* Two hard drives are required for the operation (not sure if this will work on a single partitioned drive) -- place the selected test file in one of them;
* Copy the file to the other drive;
* Fire up the command console (Start > Run... and type cmd);
* At the prompt, type comp /? to view the operation options, while for the test purpose, the command line should look like this:
comp c:\A.rar d:\A.rar
* The two copies will be compared, and if there is a single byte of difference (caused by corruption, during the copy process), the program will give a breakdown of the offset(s).

[eternal_fantasy]

just like elmor

i corrupted a couple of installs while testing RAM
frequency and timings too ambitious heh

it was instant corruption no more HDD hehehehe

board = reference 790i

got some nice slipstreamed XPPro SP3 and win2008 server SP1 ready to put on
i normally use memtest but didn't have my FDD handy and actually wanted to kill it off to be honest so that i can reinstall new OSes heh

If info like this counts towards reference board corruption then wouldn't any board, 790i or not, that has its memory tweaked too aggressively have corruption issues?
Its like accusing the cpu is faulty because it wouldn't do 5ghz on air...

This thread should really be about data corruption with none or moderate overclocking that would otherwise be absolutely stable on another platform.

[dinos22]

If info like this counts towards reference board corruption then wouldn't any board, 790i or not, that has its memory tweaked too aggressively have corruption issues?

it should not count i agree but i did manage to corrupt it

consider this...i bench memory a lot on all sorts of platforms and when i'm pushing too hard on intel the board won't let me boot and when i do get the usual file not found or whatever the case is i usually get it back when i restart at stock

with this board = no
just gone

but i do agree with you....this is not really a corruption cause by the system but by donkey in front of the system

[zanzabar]

dose the 790i have the same sb as the 680/780i if so then that shouldent be trusted from the start

or is this looking like ram

[eternal_fantasy]

it should not count i agree but i did manage to corrupt it

consider this...i bench memory a lot on all sorts of platforms and when i'm pushing too hard on intel the board won't let me boot and when i do get the usual file not found or whatever the case is i usually get it back when i restart at stock

with this board = no
just gone

but i do agree with you....this is not really a corruption cause by the system but by donkey in front of the system

Hehe I see what you mean.

[saaya]

first of all thanks to everybody for all the feedback!

my opinion now its one of the best chipsets for ddr3...

well with intel p35/x38/x48 beeing virtually identical besides the amount of pciE lanes, there are 2 chipsets on the market for ddr3... and yes, id say 790 is one of the best hehehe

2 x 32GB Mtron Pro 7000 Series 2.5" SSD 120Gb/s 90Gb/s RAID0 32Kb stripe size
Areca 1231DML SATAII RAID Controller 2Gb DDR2-533 Cache

oooooohohohoho, so your one of THOSE guys then... i see, i see

[QUOTE=eternal_fantasy;2892631]Upon closer tweaking/inspection, corruption happens when the FSB is altered from their default value (i.e. 333). Running the system at different CPU multiplier, the memory linked/unlink has no relevance.
Setting the system at a VERY relaxed settings:
350FSB, 9xMulti, 1400Mhz 8-7-6-21 1.9V Memory.
Windows were installed with default settings, and once installation completed, a system files integrity check was performed. Once the system files are found to be intact the above settings are applied. ORTHOS and OCCT are ran, 2 hours pass without error, system were restarted several times, 3DMark06 ran, system BSOD on 3rd run, after system restarted, system file integrity check ran. System files found corrupted.

Many people seem to feel their S2E is stable because they ran ORTHOS/OCCT for 6+ hours etc, but ORTHOS/OCCT don't access corrupted critical system files causing BSOD. Unless a system files integrity check is performed, you can not be sure your system is corruption free. I can do exactly the same thing, posting hours of ORTHOS runs with Screenshot of CPU-Z showing 4.05Ghz CPU, 450FSB, 1800-7-7-6 Memory. Followed by a . And maybe even a . BUT all of those are mute points when data are corrupted by the motherboard, which may not be obvious to the user in the beginning.
A screenshot of a scan for system file integrity should also accompany screenshot of your system settings after at least a few hours since the overclock settings has been applied, after some system restarts and stability test runs.

hmmmmm

To check if your system contains corrupted data:
System file integrity scan:
- search for "cmd"
- right click-run as administrator
- type in "sfc /scannow"
after scanning it will tell you if your windows is corrupted and weather it was able to fix the corrupted data(most probably not).

interesting, thanks for the guide! so windows might be corrupted but you dont notice it? could it be its corrupted yet you can boot fine and run almost all apps wituout issues?

and the evga board doesnt cause corruption for you?
could you have a dud S2E? could you try an RMA and check if the replacement board maybe works?

jody, your using the evga board or the S2E?
about P35... its the same as x38, its just that x38 was launched later = more recent chipset = better ocing results. same for x48...
im not 100&#37; sure, but pretty much 90%...

dinos, is your board a reference reference board?
its from nvidia and an early sample, are you sure its identical to evga and xfx boards?

This thread should really be about data corruption with none or moderate overclocking that would otherwise be absolutely stable on another platform.

yes, maybe i should have made this more clear in the first post. but its still interesting to see that other than on intel chipsets where unstable memspeeds just crash or freeze the system, here with this chipset the install seems to get completely corrupted.

dose the 790i have the same sb as the 680/780i if so then that shouldent be trusted from the start

or is this looking like ram

thats true... isnt it using a last gen SPP or MCH as sb?

[tet5uo]

Evga 790i Here... no corruption.

But I'm not pushing it very hard... only 400 FSBx10 on the CPU and 1600mHz linked RAM.

[eternal_fantasy]

so windows might be corrupted but you dont notice it?

You may notice the "effect" of the corrupt system files, in the form of BSOD and system hangs.

could it be its corrupted yet you can boot fine and run almost all apps wituout issues?

That is exatly right, just that it is not "without issue", more like "without obvious issue". But unless you run a system file integrity check, you can not be sure your system is corruption free.

and the evga board doesnt cause corruption for you?

Mine EVGA reference board is corruption free, even after 2 weeks running overclocked settings I didn't have to reinstall the OS.

could you have a dud S2E? could you try an RMA and check if the replacement board maybe works?

At the very beginning when I found the issue I had thought it is very likely that I have got a dud, but soon people around the web started reporting the exact same problem, so I thought I'll wait till a more mature BIOS before I try and RMA the Striker II Extreme.