AMD's smoothness factor put to the test by AMD & HardOCP...

[Final8ty]

Yes, it's called minimum FPS. Stuttering means disruption of the flow, that is, min FPS drops to below 25-30FPS, the level which the human brain can perceive.

A 2500k has been proven link to produce consistently better min FPS and average FPS than a 8150. A 2700k would walk all over it.

If anything, this shows how subjective human perception is, especially in a controlled environment by a interested party.

It seems that you don't know what micro stuttering is, which is the timings between frames on multi GPU systems and nothing to do with the minimums, of course frame rates of 30-25 are not going to seem smooth, buts that's not micro stutter.

I have had a version of EVE that i capped to a solid 120fps as running at 400fps is a waste, but it only felt like 30fps because of the micro stuttering, had the same in early drivers for COD4, BFBC2, BF3.
Its also been shown that having a slight CPU bottleneck can help smooth out frame times.

[Final8ty]

Apparently it was HardOCP who set up the PC's.

[wez]

i would like to see if all the nah sayers in this thread took this test, how many would pick the AMD rig too...

This ^^

As i said in the other thread, I was expecting there to be no major difference between the FX and i7.
Obviously all marketing should be taken with a grain of salt, no matter the company. But taking the data thats been shown to us, and thats really all we can do, AMD is doing something right.

Either way, good marketing

[Blaber]

wait, what? I was just giving a reason of why i do not believe this amd marketing stunt and gave valid reasons as per request. why the rant?
And just to add, i would not believe what intels marketing team spout also, as proved by there recent sham, i guess some people can be unbiased that way.

Reason for rant :

Your 4 post so far in this thread till now have not even discussed as to what the reason (right or even wrong) behind smoothness factor can be & your first post was that you don't believe in AMD PR which we have come to consensus that we cant believe both Intels & AMD's pr , so why just keep on , why not discuss the technical reason behind this & find out the truth rather than blaming PR & typing some bad about AMD in general. I think you don't realize that as an AMD fan it becomes very irritating for me to find most of the AMD thread have the same on every AMD thread.

[gallag]

Reason for rant :

Your 4 post so far in this thread till now have not even discussed as to what the reason (right or even wrong) behind smoothness factor can be & your first post was that you don't believe in AMD PR which we have come to consensus that we cant believe both Intels & AMD's pr , so why just keep on , why not discuss the technical reason behind this & find out the truth rather than blaming PR & typing some bad about AMD in general. I think you don't realize that as an AMD fan it becomes very irritating for me to find most of the AMD thread have the same on every AMD thread.

i dont believe that "smoothness" deserves a debate as i believe that this whole thing is just a marketing stunt as proved in this very thread marketing is quite often bs, no matter who is doing it. That is my opinion and i dont have to only discuss the points you want me to. But you admit you are a "fan" of amd (how can you be a fan of a faceless mega corp whos intention is to only make money of you) so any debate with you would be a waste of time.

[boxleitnerb]

Btw did anyone think of this?
2700K is potentially around 50% faster than BD if you let it (see HardOCP multiGPU test with FX8150). By implying/aiming at the conclusion that CPU speed doesn't matter (that much), they are shooting themselves in the foot. By their own logic, a Phenom X4 or even Athlon X4 will do just fine. Who then would buy their BD? On the one hand you promote your product as a gamers CPU and on the other hand you're saying "eeeh, you know, you don't really need it".

[Blaber]

i dont believe that "smoothness" deserves a debate as i believe that this whole thing is just a marketing stunt as proved in this very thread marketing is quite often bs, no matter who is doing it. That is my opinion and i dont have to only discuss the points you want me to. But you admit you are a "fan" of amd (how can you be a fan of a faceless mega corp whos intention is to only make money of you) so any debate with you would be a waste of time.

Sorry mate I think you didn't get my point : If you don't believe the smoothness factor on AMD system fine but please don't walk into AMD thread & type some crap about AMD , if you don't have any good reasoning behind the failure of smoothness be it right or wrong on AMD system to add please stay put rather than adding some no-sense amd pr sucks text & also "I AM NOT MAKING YOU DISCUSS ON YOUR POINT UNLESS YOUR POINT IS TO WALK IN TO EVERY AMD THREAD & BLAME AMD WHEN EVER & HOW EVER YOU CAN & add nothing else to the thread"

Reason for Being AMD fan : I have a Phenom II X550BE which I have been able to unlock X4 & overclock to 3.9ghz on my previous AM2+ board & now on AM3+ board , now which Intel set-up can give me similar value for 2 platforms running.

[xlink]

FPS is a flawed methodology. People don't see in aggregate frames per second. One second is far too great a time span. If for the experience will be subpar if for the first 3/4ths of a second you have 2 frames and then you have 98 rendered in the last quarter of a second(and this is a 100FPS example)

This is my proposed method of measurement -
20th percentile, median, and 80th percentile frames per decisecond.

[Aberration]

Sorry mate I think you didn't get my point : If you dont beleive the smoothness factor on AMD system fine but please don't walk into AMD thread & type some crap about AMD , if you have any good reasoning behind the failure of smoothness be it right or wrong on AMD system to add please stay put rather than adding some no-sense amd pr sucks text & also "I AM NOT MAKING YOU DISCUSS ON YOUR POINT UNLESS YOUR POINT IS TO WALK IN TO EVERY AMD THREAD & BLAME AMD WHEN EVER & HOW EVER YOU CAN & add nothing else to the thread"

Reason for Being AMD fan : I have a Phenom II X550BE which I have been able to unlock X4 & overclock to 3.9ghz on my previous AM2+ board & now on AM3+ board , now which Intel set-up can give me similar value for 2 platforms running.

You mad bro?

[gallag]

Sorry mate I think you didn't get my point : If you dont beleive the smoothness factor on AMD system fine but please don't walk into AMD thread & type some crap about AMD , if you have any good reasoning behind the failure of smoothness be it right or wrong on AMD system to add please stay put rather than adding some no-sense amd pr sucks text & also "I AM NOT MAKING YOU DISCUSS ON YOUR POINT UNLESS YOUR POINT IS TO WALK IN TO EVERY AMD THREAD & BLAME AMD WHEN EVER & HOW EVER YOU CAN & add nothing else to the thread"

Reason for Being AMD fan : I have a Phenom II X550BE which I have been able to unlock X4 & overclock to 3.9ghz on my previous AM2+ board & now on AM3+ board , now which Intel set-up can give me similar value for 2 platforms running.

you are wrong, this is not an amd thread, where did you get that idea? This is an amd/intel comparison thread and i was pointing out that it was a marketing stunt witch was a valid point in the context of the thread. And yes amd do make some products that i am also a fan off, i am also a fan of intel products, could not give a about intel or amd though.

[ilkkahy]

Are we talking about some kind of "micro stuttering of cpus" here? Could this be measured somehow?

[Final8ty]

Are we talking about some kind of "micro stuttering of cpus" here? Could this be measured somehow?

No, its not micro stuttering of cpus.

[R101]

All I can say is - if there is any kind of difference it should be measurable - be it through fps graphs or some app that simulates the mouse movement and then measures the lag from the input to the frame being drawn..

[Hornet331]

The CPU that is most balanced between cores should be the smoothest if work depends on the CPU and memory.

Pls... pls don't do this again.

[Final8ty]

All I can say is - if there is any kind of difference it should be measurable - be it through fps graphs or some app that simulates the mouse movement and then measures the lag from the input to the frame being drawn..

The problem, is to too often enthusiasts only think of FPS when there are many other things that lesson the experience.

Tearing
Slight pauses due to textures loading, trigger points, streamed environments ect... and very little to do with raw FPS.
Some systems handle them better than others.

[Cold Fussion]

The problem, is to too often enthusiasts only think of FPS when there are many other things that lesson the experience.

Tearing
Pauses dude to textures loading, trigger points, streamed environments ect... and very little to do with raw FPS.
Some systems handle them better than others.

But all of those things which impact performance do so by impacting the frame rate, which can be measured.

[Final8ty]

But all of those things which impact performance do so by impacting the frame rate, which can be measured.

Yes but they rarely are and that's the point, we all experience it but no one takes that into consideration when benching, so don't expect anything more this time.
Enthusiasts are partly to blame because all they bang on about is FPS FPS FPS so that's all your going to get from reviews.

[Lokinhow]

fps is a terrible way of measuring "smoothness". That's because one second is TOO MUCH time.

I'm not saying that AMD is really better than intel or vice-versa. I'm just saying that fps, even if it's min. fps, is a stupid way to test if system A is more smooth than system B.
All those gaming CPU tests should be done like THIS:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/22192/11

It may not be all perfect too, but I'm sure its a far better way to say wich system has better gaming experience.

[Cold Fussion]

Yes but they rarely are and that's the point, we all experience it but no one takes that into consideration when benching, so don't expect anything more this time.
Enthusiasts are partly to blame because all they bang on about is FPS FPS FPS so that's all your going to get from reviews.

If you were to just look at the minimum and average fps then we don't find about anything about the smoothness that is correct. But Fraps gives us sub millisecond accuracy so we can get a very accurate picture of what is happening which will show us how smooth something is. Unfortunately you don't see such views very often in reviews.

[Final8ty]

If you were to just look at the minimum and average fps then we don't find about anything about the smoothness that is correct. But Fraps gives us sub millisecond accuracy so we can get a very accurate picture of what is happening which will show us how smooth something is. Unfortunately you don't see such views very often in reviews.

The thing is its not always about analytical numbers, i see people say that 30fps feels smooth in this game when normally they would not be happy with anything less than 60fps in those game types.

I see great specs on hardware that in theory should make it better but the experience is sterile and the theoretically lessor giving a better experience.

[Cold Fussion]

The thing is its not always about analytical numbers, i see people say that 30fps feels smooth in this game when normally they would not be happy with anything less than 60fps in those game types.

I see great specs on hardware that in theory should make it better but the experience is sterile and the theoretically lessor giving a better experience.

It's important to do a qualitative assessment as well, so long as it follows a quantitative assessment. But considering the only changed variable here the cpu, or it's meant to be, then the fps graphs will show the true difference. Whether or not that means either is smooth though will depend on the game.

[Final8ty]

It's important to do a qualitative assessment as well, so long as it follows a quantitative assessment. But considering the only changed variable here the cpu, or it's meant to be, then the fps graphs will show the true difference. Whether or not that means either is smooth though will depend on the game.

In a blind test it does not, its only what people think and feel about it that matters and Apple is a testament to that an inferior product can be more pleasurable to use for what ever reason, that graphs can not measure because we are human, not synthetic.

[Tom128]

As an owner of a 2600K and a Phenom II X6, I can promise you there is a difference in the smoothness and AMD wins. I was called a fanboy when I only had my AMD system and compared it to my friends Sandy setup, but when I got my 2600K for WCG and made it my daily driver, I noticed it immediately. I am not a fanboy, I don't care who gets my money as long as the product does what I want it to do at a good price.

I don't have any rational reason why, but it is what it is. I have similar setups between my HTPC and Work system (even down to the keyboard/mouse) and playing BF3, League of Legends, TF2...you name it, it is smoother on the AMD rig. It's hard to qualify, but its noticeable for me.

[Hornet331]

maxfps=60.. there you go, fixed on both systems and you wont notice any difference.

What all you guys notice is the larger fps drops, I play a rather unoptimized game right now and it has more then often drops in the high 30fps region, but usually runs on 120fps (engine limit). Clamped it at 60 and its much "smoother". Ironically its the same for TF2 and thank good there is a maxfps option.

Repeat this test with fps caped at 60 and ppl can't tell anything.

Humans can not quantify absolute values, but they are very sensitive to changes

[keithlm]

Repeat this test with fps caped at 60 and ppl can't tell anything.

Since you don't like the results you want to configure the systems so you can get the answer you prefer?

I think other people were just discussing unethical, illogical, and other shady things that could be done to bias results. Your suggestion would fit
perfectly into that category.

Actually it is interesting how so many people who obviously don't like these results feel the need to jump in and try to justify why a blind test is somehow "not real". Often these are the same people that will not question the bias of a reviewer creating a brand new review and including results from a 6 year old game or some older version of an application that has 3 or 4 newer versions. (That are now optimized for newer architectures.)