NVIDIA GTX 595 (picture+Details)

[MaddMuppet]

Are you talking about the 590? Well, my guess is that they are going to use a down-clocked GF114 like the one in GTX 580 ... with the GTX 295 they used the same chip in the GTX280 down-clocked to GTX260 clocks... my guess they will do something similar here But my guess is a <=400W TDP ... i don't believe they will manage to get a 300TDP with this one ...

I don't really care if they do go over the 300watt TDP. As long as it is fast.

[Gilgamesh]

6950 is dead after 560, unless they drop the price sharply. Nobody would bother to buy one, let alone tow.
If somebody wants to go for a CFX or SLI, then 560 SLI is a cool, quiet, LOWER power efficient, ... etc with a LOWER performance. Why should anybody bother to go with 6950 CFX?

Fixed

And no 2x GTX560 1Gb @1GHz can beat 2x HD6950 2Gb @HD6970 880/1375.

[Sam_oslo]

Fixed

And no 2x GTX560 1Gb @1GHz can beat 2x HD6950 2Gb @HD6970 880/1375.

We have already seen a couple of 560-2GBs, announced. They would be perfect candidate for better SLI-scaling, and would probably overcome what you are pointing out. My loaal dealer has just listed 560-2Gb's.

You fixes doesn't matter that much, because mainstream is not about the crown, and there i different ideas about it too. The mainstream is all about price/performance-ratio. Specially for these cards that are so close to each other. I've already said at release date, and repeated later too, the final chapter of this round will be written in a price- war.

As it's, 560 is selling 10% cheaper than 6950, generally. At my big local dealer (in Norway, which always is updated on price and stock), the cheapest 6950 is 10% more than 560, and the most expensive 6050-2GB is 8% more than most expensive 560-2GB.
As it's, 6950 has lost the price war, and this the most important war for mainstream ( specially at this round). This discussion started when I said, 6950 is dead practically, nobody would buy it, unless they drop the price sharply.

[badboy18187]

I thought the gtx295 had two gtx275 but downclocked so the termals would be in check. And I think everyone agrees that if Nvidia would ever bring a dual GPU monster with this generation, the GTX560 Ti would be the best bet. 2X 570 or 580 is impossible, they could never pull it off; and even if they did, the GPU`s would need to be severly gimped to meet the power and thermal limits.

[Gilgamesh]

We have already seen a couple of 560-2GBs, announced. They would be perfect candidate for better SLI-scaling, and would probably overcome what you are pointing out. My loaal dealer has just listed 560-2Gb's.

You fixes doesn't matter that much, because mainstream is not about the crown, and there i different ideas about it too. The mainstream is all about price/performance-ratio. Specially for these cards that are so close to each other. I've already said at release date, and repeated later too, the final chapter of this round will be written in a price- war.

As it's, 560 is selling 10% cheaper than 6950, generally. At my big local dealer (in Norway, which always is updated on price and stock), the cheapest 6950 is 10% more than 560, and the most expensive 6050-2GB is 8% more than most expensive 560-2GB[/URL].
As it's, 6950 has lost the price war. This discussion started when I said, 6950 is dead practically, nobody would buy it, unless they drop the price sharply.

Here your price/performance:

http://geizhals.at/eu/?cat=gra16_512...=gtx560&sort=p

Palit GTX560 1 and 2Gb : 212 and 252 euro vat included

http://geizhals.at/eu/?cat=gra16_512...=hd6950&sort=p

Sapphire HD6950 1 and 2Gb: 214 and 235 euro vat included

You say that HD6950 is lots the price war, this is you opinion, but in price/performance is well in battle, single cards and more in Crossfire vs Sli for better scaling.

I don't care for "crown", but I just pointed and fixed your power efficiency and performance of GTX560 vs HD6950.

[Sam_oslo]

Here your price/performance:

http://geizhals.at/eu/?cat=gra16_512...=gtx560&sort=p

Palit GTX560 1 and 2Gb : 212 and 252 euro vat included

http://geizhals.at/eu/?cat=gra16_512...=hd6950&sort=p

Sapphire HD6950 1 and 2Gb: 214 and 235 euro vat included

You say that HD6950 is lots the price war, this is you opinion, but in price/performance is well in battle, single cards and more in Crossfire vs Sli for better scaling.

I don't care for "crown", but I just pointed and fixed your power efficiency and performance of GTX560 vs HD6950.

If I understand you right, I think we agree, those details doesn't count that much for these cards. They are too close to each other to make a big different, Of course that different sites are concluding differently too, and it's not easy to distinguish the performance and power-usage. i still mean 560 have the upper hand, but you may have your own ideas about it.


I think we also agree, th price is going to decide the outcome now. The real retail-prices for 560 is generally 10% cheaper now. So I guess you have no choice than to agree, they have to drop the price of 6950 to survive. But you have the right to insist on your idea, even when hard reality slams it.

[zalbard]

You unlock 6950 to 6970 and roflstomp over 560 while spending slightly less. End of story...

[Sam_oslo]

You unlock 6950 to 6970 and roflstomp over 560 while spending slightly less. End of story...

So the good "old" 6950-2GB is meant to counter 560 now? I thought AMD ha just released 6950-1Gb for that.

My local dealer is selling the cheapest 6950-2GB for 23% more than cheapest 560-1Gb. I don't think that's the end of story, but you may have your idea about it.

[Kristers Bensin]

6950 is dead after 560, unless they drop the price sharply. Nobody would bother to buy one, let alone tow.
If somebody wants to go for a CFX or SLI, then 560 SLI is a cool, quiet, power efficient, ... etc with a great performance. Why should anybody bother to go with 6950 CFX?

What a load of bull, get ur facts straight and stop messing with the readers. GTX 560 scale worse in SLI then 6950 in CF, the gain for 560 is ~60% and for 6950 the gain is ~91%. I read that u dont like the word fanboy, but that statement had alot of fanboy content and thats my opinion.

If I understand you right, I think we agree, those details doesn't count that much for these cards. They are too close to each other to make a big different, Of course that different sites are concluding differently too, and it's not easy to distinguish the performance and power-usage. i still mean 560 have the upper hand, but you may have your own ideas about it.


I think we also agree, th price is going to decide the outcome now. The real retail-prices for 560 is generally 10% cheaper now. So I guess you have no choice than to agree, they have to drop the price of 6950 to survive. But you have the right to insist on your idea, even when hard reality slams it.

Again a load of bull. The prices in norweigan may have a 10% difference ( yet alone your local dealer )but in the rest of the world they both land at the same price. So i say again get ur facts right before u post.

[Postmodum]

Sam... man... your fanboy side of nvidia is shaking the grounds ...
Calm down ...
I can get the 6950 2gb for 248Eurs here...



It's just for you to understand ... Nvidia is great, for 2 years, i've been running a GTX 295 without a single problem... but damn, ATI has some good boards too for the mainstream market!
And GTX 560 can compete to 6950's and be better, because you overclock the hell out of them! ...

See some reviews:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforc...560-ti-review/
http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-n5...er-ii-review/1
http://www.guru3d.com/article/gigaby...i-soc-review/1

All of them are testing with 6950 on stock clocks...
I'm not saying things just because i'm against you ... i'm just relaying in some facts ...


BUT ... this is a GTX595 thread, maybe we should stop discussing GTX560 issues here

[Sam_oslo]

You guys are new here, but we don't talk that way in this forum.
Get your acts together and write in a civilized way, without stamping others, personal attacks, and offensive Language, then I may answer your questions.
Damn newbies

[Postmodum]

New here? Sam... maybe i'm not that active... but i've been here since dec 2008 ...
And there's nothing wrong with i wrote...

jeez...

[Kristers Bensin]

You guys are new here, but we don't talk that way in this forum.
Get your acts together and write in a civilized way, without stamping others, personal attacks, and offensive Language, then I may answer your questions.
Damn newbies

So just because we registered late on this forum we dont have a legit opinion?
Ive been reading this forum since the opening day, but just registered.

You must really love your nvidia company, now that you bought a gtx 560 you have to convince yourself it was a great buy and better than the other side, thats just pathetic and in many ways makes your posts misleading for the readers and potential buyers.

Also i cant seem to see any personal attacks, offensive language or uncivilized posts or maybe im just blinded by the red light.

Ontopic: As i said before this is all exciting and i will look forward to the day when they both have a dual gpu card this generation. I just think it will be harder for Nvidia to make a great card thats inside the PCIe 300W standard.

[Sam_oslo]

New here? Sam... maybe i'm not that active... but i've been here since dec 2008 ...
And there's nothing wrong with i wrote...

jeez...

I was motley referring to the other newbie, but if you know how to act in a forum, then why are you acting like that then?
You can write about you idea, as you like, but you have no right to tell me what to write, or not.!

Nobody, either newbie or not, should use offensive language just because they have differer ideas, meaning, and experiences. Nobody have the right to use offensive language to make a point.

We are not here to fight each other, we are hear to fight the points with constructive arguments. Personal attacks is easy, but it doesn't belong to sch a forum. We are here to discuss HW, not person.

[Final8ty]

I see that Sam_oslo is going into his usual routine.

[zalbard]

So the good "old" 6950-2GB is meant to counter 560 now? I thought AMD ha just released 6950-1Gb for that.

My local dealer is selling the cheapest 6950-2GB for 23% more than cheapest 560-1Gb. I don't think that's the end of story, but you may have your idea about it.

Unlocked 6950 2GB (= 6970 2GB) is significantly faster than 560 2GB. While being around 10% more expensive than 560 1GB. Extremely attractive.
6870 is maybe 10% slower than 560 1GB while being 10% cheaper. Competitive enough.
6950 1GB is slightly faster than 560 1GB while costing the same. Competitive? Sure.
German pricing.

[Postmodum]

Sam... i didn't say anything about what you should write or not ... and there's nothing wrong with my posture in this forum. I give you facts... i don't just make some kind of statements without even knowing they are true or not.

I don't understand what you want to achieve with this... You are acting like you are being chased by something...

I didn't see any kind of personal attacks... i just see you over-reacting... nothing more... and about something that you shouldn't ...

And please... don't use the "time spent on this forum" as a hierarchical status of some kind... it really isn't factor to take in consideration here...


BUT ... let's get back to the GTX 590.

Well... i'm really curious to know the clock speeds that they will use on the card... They have some TDP limitations due to some rules about power consumption ... and that's the big "question" imo

[Kristers Bensin]

Well... i'm really curious to know the clock speeds that they will use on the card... They have some TDP limitations due to some rules about power consumption ... and that's the big "question" imo

One thing i think is funny about that is that the GTX 480/580 have a TDP of around 240-250W and thats about what they draw at maximum, BUT the 5970 wich has a TDP of 300W draws less power than GTX 480/580.

We all know that AMD and nvidia uses different solutions to find out the TDP of a card, but the 5970 is really overbuilt it will be fun to see the "real" powerdraw of the new dual gpu cards and not just the TDP

[Postmodum]

Yes... but... the GTX 5xx series were more efficient than the GTX 4xx series... that's for sure.
It will really end up with price battle... my guess is that both will be really good...


I don't know how's ati CF profiles doing. I did read in the past that they were launching weekly or 2 in 2 weeks, new profiles... is that true?
With my GTX295 i never worried too much about the SLI performance, although, there were a bunch of games, that just recently ( i mean ... in the last 3 versions of the drivers ) where 100% supported... :x

So... scalability... SLI/CF Profiling ... that's going to be some of the most important aspects for these dual GPU's ...
From reading... i see many ATI users really pissed off about CF profiles not working... :x That, for me, can be a big handicap on the 6990 ...

And of course... the price... my fear is that this Beast... will be blown away by the price tag...
It will be a Beast for sure...

[RaV666]

Sam Oslo.
The FACTS.
GTX 560 Doesnt overclock better than 6950.Proof:
Palit Sonic (pre overclocked better than stock cooler):

Or the reference model:

No stable 1ghz.But there is possibility of a better sample.Lets say 1ghz.
MSI HD6950:

Or MSI TwinFrazor:

So the cards overclock THE SAME.
Taking into consideration that 6950 starts from 25mhz lower clock, even ATI OCs a lil better.
Power Consumption:

560 pulls 20W more, not a big thing.But a lil more, so its worse a bit in this regard.
Performance in the target mainstream resolution :

Again, a little slower, in the big picture ,cards perform the same.
CFX scaling on the 6950 is a little better than GTX 560.
Price difference between both (1GB and 2GB models for both camps) isnt really more than 5-7%.
So from this picture a sane and reasonable person can only conclude, that both cards are almost identical taking into consideration a lil better perf of HD6950 and a lil lower price of GTX 560.
How in the hell can someone claim that 560 "destroys" hd6950 is beyond me.
Sam ,for the love of everything, stop dividing by zero :P

[saaya]

You guys are new here, but we don't talk that way in this forum.
Get your acts together and write in a civilized way, without stamping others, personal attacks, and offensive Language, then I may answer your questions.
Damn newbies

Wtf? You need to lay off the testosterone man
Claiming you a long-term member here and trying to lecture others...
6950 1gb are for noobs that don't know how to unlock the 2gbs
I like the 560s more as well but the 6950s aren't dead...

[Sam_oslo]

Unlocked 6950 2GB (= 6970 2GB) is significantly faster than 560 2GB. While being around 10% more expensive than 560 1GB. Extremely attractive.
6870 is maybe 10% slower than 560 1GB while being 10% cheaper. Competitive enough.
6950 1GB is slightly faster than 560 1GB while costing the same. Competitive? Sure.
German pricing.

You see we started this discussing about survival of the direct competitor of 560, also the 6950-1GB's. I was referring to that when i said, it's dead, nobody will buy it unless the drop the price.

This statement "6950 1GB is slightly faster than 560 1GB while costing the same" is debatable, and there is different meanings about it. I personally (and several serious reviews too) mean 560 has the upper hand in performance/power-usage/OCing headroom.
Anyways, we can always argue and never agree, but that's OK, because the price/performance-ratio is the most important factor in mainstream generally, and specially in this round where these cards are pretty close to each other.
My statement was based on my own research, where I did a few days ago and ended up buying a 560. it's based on the prices at my local dealers. They are selling the 560 generally 10% cheaper then 6950 (which i have already provided links for), but if those German-pricing are current then these is another history, then either AMD has drooped the price, or something else. but anyways, it proves the point i was trying to make. Same point that I got flamed for. My main point was, and still is, they have to drop the price to survive, and they seams to have done it. Those German sites has proven my point was right!

I got flamed for saying they can't sell the 6950 for 10% more, they have to drop the price to become competitive and survive, and now your German-pricing are confirming the exact same point.

Do you think i can get a apology for all those baseless claims and all those aggressive flames? I don' think so, some will still try to be funny again, tomorrow too. LMAO.

[Gilgamesh]

I got flamed for saying they can't sell the 6950 for 10% more, they have to drop the price to become competitive and survive, and now your German-pricing are confirming the exact same point.

No

You got "flamed" because you say: "gtx560 win battle for price/performance, power efficiency and also for Sli vs Crossfire. HD6950 is "dead" and lost the battle."
All without any proofs.

And I proved you (with others) that all these "opinions" are just that: opinions

Facts says that price HD6950 1Gb = GTX560 1Gb with better perfomance
HD6950 2Gb cost less than GTX560 2Gb, and offer better price/performance with or without overclocking, of both 1 and 2Gb.

You have an GTX560 1Gb @1GHz?
Oh great clock, but lose vs HD6950 2Gb@ 6970 with only 920_1400

Or, if you prefer:
MSi GTX560 Twin Frozr II:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-n5...r-ii-review/20

vs

MSi R6950 2Gb Twin Frozr II:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/msi-r6...i-oc-review/22

And second win, without mod

Facts says that Crossfire HD69xx scale better of SLi HD5xx (580, 570 and 560).

Power consumptions are same, but HD6950 offer higher performance in single and Crossfire, so is more efficient than GTX560.

All those facts prove my points: where are yours?

I stop my OT now in this thread

[\/icious]

You see we started this discussing about survival of the direct competitor of 560, also the 6950-1GB's. I was referring to that when i said, it's dead, nobody will buy it unless the drop the price.

This statement "6950 1GB is slightly faster than 560 1GB while costing the same" is debatable, and there is different meanings about it. I personally (and several serious reviews too) mean 560 has the upper hand in performance/power-usage/OCing headroom.
Anyways, we can always argue and never agree, but that's OK, because the price/performance-ratio is the most important factor in mainstream generally, and specially in this round where these cards are pretty close to each other.
My statement was based on my own research, where I did a few days ago and ended up buying a 560. it's based on the prices at my local dealers. They are selling the 560 generally 10% cheaper then 6950 (which i have already provided links for), but if those German-pricing are current then these is another history, then either AMD has drooped the price, or something else. but anyways, it proves the point i was trying to make. Same point that I got flamed for. My main point was, and still is, they have to drop the price to survive, and they seams to have done it. Those German sites has proven my point was right!

I got flamed for saying they can't sell the 6950 for 10% more, they have to drop the price to become competitive and survive, and now your German-pricing are confirming the exact same point.

Do you think i can get a apology for all those baseless claims and all those aggressive flames? I don' think so, some will still try to be funny again, tomorrow too. LMAO.

If your going to make a case about pricing your local dealer is not a reliable source to back your arguement. Main sstream etailers like newegg would better back your claims though there is only a like a 10 dollar price difference so that arguement you have is moot at best. If you want to back up your performance claims post some links because no one cares about your personal experience because it can be biased. Also no one said anything to warrant any sort of apology so grow up.

[[XC] Oj101]

Sam, I'm going to make a serious suggestion here. Edit the text out of your posts and take a breather from the new section for a bit, the staff here might not be tolerant. It really does seem that you're throwing your toys out of the cot - sorry dude, saying it for what it is. Nobody here has said anything bad about you.