AMD Cayman info (or rumor)

[Sly Fox]

Yeah, I bet there will be tears when I laugh about the nonsense to overclock hardware for anything other than practical use.

--WhyShouldIPutMyNameHere

You know, you don't have to be overtly rude and mean-spirited to make a point.

There are other ways.

[Manicdan]

Yeah, I bet there will be tears when I laugh about the nonsense to overclock hardware for anything other than practical use.

--WhyShouldIPutMyNameHere

welcome to a forum about overclocking,
people race cars, and some get paid alot to do it, others just call it a hobby, is that pointless too?

--Dan (thats a signature line, some people do this because its a professional habit)

[geo]

welcome to a forum about overclocking,
people race cars, and some get paid alot to do it, others just call it a hobby, is that pointless too?

--Dan (thats a signature line, some people do this because its a professional habit)

[zerazax]

welcome to a forum about overclocking,
people race cars, and some get paid alot to do it, others just call it a hobby, is that pointless too?

--Dan (thats a signature line, some people do this because its a professional habit)

Seriously... the gall to come in here and flame people for using 3dMark on this forum

[s1nykuL]

Seriously... the gall to come in here and flame people for using 3dMark on this forum

Yup 3Dmark is not representative of real gaming, that's common knowledge. Yup a rig that can run at world record speeds under extreme cooling (DICE/LN2) has no practical use. I don't think that there is an overclocker here that wouldn't agree. However, this is XtremeSystems not practical systems.

I don't have enough time, resource or indeed the inclination/dedication required to push a CPU over 7Ghz or make a rig score a WR in some version of 3D mark. Still, I am impressed with the skill, knowledge and patience required to do such things.

Respect to those that do, for what they do, and thanks to them for making me think wow, awesome.

[Solus Corvus]

Argh my blood is frickin boiling every time I see stupid demo-benchmarks like 3DMark getting hyped, even though it is proven over and over that they do not correlate to the relative performance of real games! All this does is that driver developer resources are wasted which would be spent on the actual games!

WHAT IN HELL IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE!?!

I enjoy Shattered Horizon and Vantage correlates well with that.

[Iconyu]

First there were no cards, now it's not enough? If I find more in other shops, what's the next excuse going to be?


Zotac 5+, MSI 1, Palit 1, PNY 5+, Gainward 1 - http://www.czechcomputer.cz/fulltext...type=stockitem
Gainward 1-2, Gainward GS 3-5, Zotac 3-5, Asus 5+ - http://www.alza.cz/SearchAdvanced.asp?EXPS=gtx+580

First two shops I've checked here.

This is not a mainstream product. You don't need hundreds of them and as you can see, if you want the card, there is no problem to get one.

I never said there weren't enough cards. It's not sweet spot part where demand is obviously going to be super high, in big UK retailers some online stores have around the same stock of the 6870.

If you're maintain a certain stock level then all is well, you only order enough so just as you're about to run out of stock more comes in. You don't horde 1000 of them and hope they all sell unless it's release week.

Thus after the initial flush 28 is a lot for a high priced part, admittedly a few people in that ball park will buy two but as they still have stock the day after it's safe to say that's a decent stock level.

Anyway why are you so defensive? This isn't even a 580 thread, I just offered a theory as to why AMD isn't releasing information.

[Katzenschleuder]

You know, you don't have to be overtly rude and mean-spirited to make a point.

There are other ways.

Well I find it "overtly rude and mean-spirited" to continue to hype fancyDemoBenchmarks even though it is well known that this is hurting the industry!

welcome to a forum about overclocking,
people race cars, and some get paid alot to do it, others just call it a hobby, is that pointless too?

--Dan (thats a signature line, some people do this because its a professional habit)

A valid comparison with 3DMark (&LN2 cooling etc.) would be to achieve maximum RPMs in the idle gear of a car that is made to have fun driving with.

--Katzenschleuder with a professional habit

I enjoy Shattered Horizon and Vantage correlates well with that.

Well too bad that it is a prime example that a bling bling demo-benchmark has nothing to do with game performance:
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/g...3dmark_vantage
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/s...itt_benchmarks

[Solus Corvus]

Well too bad that it is a prime example that a bling bling demo-benchmark has nothing to do with game performance:
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/g...3dmark_vantage
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/s...itt_benchmarks

The magnitudes are different, representing the great difference in the type of rendered scenes, but the ranking between nvidia and ATI cards is just about right, indicating similar shader efficiency between the game and benchmark. Also the tests were run with different driver versions. I experienced a significant variation in performance between every driver I tried around that time. Try again.

[Katzenschleuder]

The magnitudes are different, representing the great difference in the type of rendered scenes, but the ranking between nvidia and ATI cards is just about right, indicating similar shader efficiency between the game and benchmark. Also the tests were run with different driver versions. I experienced a significant variation in performance between every driver I tried around that time. Try again.

Do you honestly think that your attempt to distort the obvious truth is helping you?

3DMark Vantage 1920*1200
GTX 260 is 9% faster than the Radeon 4870

Shattered Horizon 1920*1200
GTX 260 is 14% slower than the Radeon 4870

There are differences of over 50% between both tests and you are telling me that this is a good example to show that 3DMark is a valid tool to compare game performance!

They only used an older GeForce driver for Shattered Horizon because it was faster than the newer one used for Vantage.

It is pure irony again that there has never been a GeForce driver that optimized performance for this game up until today and performance actually worsend drastically in later driver releases! Well too bad that the driver team resources had to be spent onto the so much more important 3DMark!

[Solus Corvus]

Do you honestly think that your attempt to distort the obvious truth is helping you?

It is clear that you had to pick the obvious outlier to make your point. All the other cards maintain their relative positioning between the game and benchmark, with only the magnitude between them different because of the wildly different scenes being rendered. Also the Nvidia AND ATI drivers are different.

[Katzenschleuder]

It is clear that you had to pick the obvious outlier to make your point. All the other cards maintain their relative positioning between the game and benchmark, with only the magnitude between them different because of the wildly different scenes being rendered. Also the Nvidia AND ATI drivers are different.

WTF are you talking about? The relative performance is off by more than 50% in some cases and by more than 20% in most cases.
Don't you think that a difference of 50% in performance would have a "slight" impact on your graphics card purchase decision?

There was also NEVER a Catalyst release that improved performance of Shattered Horrizon, but only one fix for a graphics bug.

So how in hell is this not a prime example that 3DMark is a horrible thing to use to compare performance?

[Solus Corvus]

WTF are you talking about? The relative performance is off by more than 50% in some cases and by more than 20% in most cases.
Don't you think that a difference of 50% in performance would have a "slight" impact on your graphics card purchase decision?

That's the magnitude of difference between them. They still have the same ranking on the chart, except for the single obvious outlier. They were even using different drivers between the cards within brands (ie. reusing old scores). Basically ATI cards smashed NV cards in vantage and they smashed them in Shattered Horizon too.

There was also NEVER a Catalyst release that improved performance of Shattered Horrizon, but only one fix for a graphics bug.

So how in hell is this not a prime example that 3DMark is a horrible thing to use to compare performance?

I don't remember ever seeing much in the release notes for various drivers about Shattered Horizon. But I still saw some significant changes in performance, even from minor version changes. It seems some of what they were doing to optimize Vantage also spilled over to SH, IME. I wish more review sites actually used SH for testing as it is a real game.

Anyway, it is a moot point. It seems that there really isn't much of a market for a cheap, unique, high-graphics, skill-based, pc exclusive shooter. But saying that vantage doesn't reflect actual games is, IMO, an indicator of how sucky the PC games market is and not so much how bad 3DMark is as an engine.

[[XC] hipno650]

I enjoy Shattered Horizon and Vantage correlates well with that.

I would agree Shattered Horizon is really fun and different and what do you know requires thinking and some skill to play unlike and game starting with COD.

however it would be way better if there were north american servers with more then 3 people in them... there has been a few time were out of all the servers me and buddy of mine were the only people online...

[Solus Corvus]

I would agree Shattered Horizon is really fun and different and what do you know requires thinking and some skill to play unlike and game starting with COD.

however it would be way better if there were north american servers with more then 3 people in them... there has been a few time were out of all the servers me and buddy of mine were the only people online...

Yeah, a truly unique game. And one that would be perfect to push these new 580 and Cayman cards. But for whatever reason it never took off. Very sad because it pretty much addressed nearly every "pc gamer" complaint - "games are dumbed down for consoles" "We don't need new cards if games don't fully utilize them" "it should be about skill" "Companies aren't responsive to the community" "Games are too expensive" "Everything is just a remake/copy of some other game" Etc.

[kuroikenshi]

Yeah, a truly unique game. And one that would be perfect to push these new 580 and Cayman cards. But for whatever reason it never took off. Very sad because it pretty much addressed nearly every "pc gamer" complaint - "games are dumbed down for consoles" "We don't need new cards if games don't fully utilize them" "it should be about skill" "Companies aren't responsive to the community" "Games are too expensive" "Everything is just a remake/copy of some other game" Etc.

sounds like excessive remanufacture of the same thing, now having said that I am off to listen to some demanufacture.

[Dimitriman]

lol all your thread are belong to AMD...

[Manicdan]

A valid comparison with 3DMark (&LN2 cooling etc.) would be to achieve maximum RPMs in the idle gear of a car that is made to have fun driving with.

how is that a valid comparison, there is no idle gear, and RPM is nothing like maxing out framerates. a better comparison is maxing out horsepower while never taking it on a road, which is the exact function of a 1/4 mile race car.

i think you can calm down a little with the dislike for futuremarks hard work, and the hard work people put in trying to max out their hardware.

[spursindonesia]

Do you honestly think that your attempt to distort the obvious truth is helping you?

3DMark Vantage 1920*1200
GTX 260 is 9% faster than the Radeon 4870

Shattered Horizon 1920*1200
GTX 260 is 14% slower than the Radeon 4870

There are differences of over 50% between both tests and you are telling me that this is a good example to show that 3DMark is a valid tool to compare game performance!

They only used an older GeForce driver for Shattered Horizon because it was faster than the newer one used for Vantage.

It is pure irony again that there has never been a GeForce driver that optimized performance for this game up until today and performance actually worsend drastically in later driver releases! Well too bad that the driver team resources had to be spent onto the so much more important 3DMark!

LOL, with your post, i just figure that nVidia's driver can decrease older (but not that old) game performance with newer drivers release, thx.

Now, calm down a bit regarding your 3D benching protest, that's getting OOT and really not in unison with this forum inner spirit.

[Iconyu]

LOL, with your post, i just figure that nVidia's driver can decrease older (but not that old) game performance with newer drivers release, thx.

Now, calm down a bit regarding your 3D benching protest, that's getting OOT and really not in unison with this forum inner spirit.

Agreed, it's like a militant animal protector joining a animal sex forum.

[dacosta89]

BAM! 6970 is faster than gtx 580

ok mods end thread discussion is over

ok... A benchmark tells everything... That website tells that HD6970 is faster thant the GTX 580 in one benchmark. However, I don't play 3DMark 11 or something like that...

[spursindonesia]

ok... A benchmark tells everything... That website tells that HD6970 is faster thant the GTX 580 in one benchmark. However, I don't play 3DMark 11 or something like that...

Don't worry, there WILL be benches or instances where GTX 580 rule supreme over HD 6970, it's nothing to be fussing over about, until we get a clear comparison in legitimate reviews out there.

[eXa]

Whats the point of quoting the poster above you???

such a mess.....

[flopper]

I am running 6850 crossfire and plays BC2 as smooth can be currently, sure its all low settings but the experience is so great, best decision I made in a long time to replace my 5850.

2 weeks to go guys, patience my young padawans.....

[eXa]

huh? you play BC2 on low settings with CF 6850???

Even my 3870 can handle medium settings...