AMD Cayman info (or rumor)

[kadozer]

Anyone wanna speculate what the Cayman is going to be vs current GTX 480. I think 20% more than a GTX 480 would be be kinda of 'meh' in between disappointing and impressed.

[flippin_waffles]

Regarless of anything else, if they can get a single chip to perform as good as, or close to it's previous dual chip and be able to bring that down to the $200-$300 market, that's a pure win. But it probably wouldn't hit $200 for a while.


[edit]

And if all that were true and pigs could fly, the 32nm version might have been untouchable. I still think it makes sense though.

[marten_larsson]

If its 255W is a big question. The slides only said > 225W, which can mean anything from 226W up to 300W of course.

That said, the 6850's and 6870s are getting a lot of scaling in CF, so who knows if some hardware changes were made to allow for this. If Cayman is a superset of Barts' features, then the scaling may be there, even with downclocked/cut-down cores.

According to Dave Baumann at B3D there is no changes made to crossfire in Barts and AMD would be stupid if they didn't promote changes that made CF scale better.

[zerazax]

According to Dave Baumann at B3D there is no changes made to crossfire in Barts and AMD would be stupid if they didn't promote changes that made CF scale better.

Good to know then that changes are likely in drivers and/or bottlenecks-removed in the architecture

[hurrdurr]

Anyone wanna speculate what the Cayman is going to be vs current GTX 480. I think 20% more than a GTX 480 would be be kinda of 'meh' in between disappointing and impressed.

480 plus 20 percent makes it on par with HD5970. If that's the case, it's still very impressive that this was actually done in the same node as 5870. It's a little bigger but if it's really 40% faster, that's something everyone's gotta congratulate AMD for. The guys are incredible on performance / mm2.

[marten_larsson]

Good to know then that changes are likely in drivers and/or bottlenecks-removed in the architecture

Well, it's kind of hard to tell. It was a response to a question whether or not the incredible CF scaling with Barts was to be seen with 5000-series as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier View Post
Question Dave: Will the crossfire benefits also come to 58xx and older hardware with the new drivers? I know you said everything is set default but I don't see the 5850 scaling as well as the 6850 in crossfire. Is that because reviewers used old drivers for the 5850?
Posted by Dave Baumann:
Personally I'm not aware of any Crossfire changes in the driver, other than having the latest profiles, which are generic across all Crossfire capable boards.

The post is here:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...postcount=3960

[Dimitriman]

HD5870's TDP was 180W, 5970's was 300W. And yet 5970 was only 40% percent faster than 5870 on average.

If the case is 255W vs 300W, even with improved CF scaling I don't think a 40% figure is possible.

Calm down Cayman will not consume 255w of power that is simply the absolute figure the chip could draw with 8+6 pin power connectors.
Im certain the figure will be around 220 max.

[saaya]

so cayman will be faster and cost less, wow... lots of useful speculation in this thread ^^

[Dimitriman]

It also ing prints money...

[K404]

"I don't care"




The people AMD/ATI rely on have let them down and forced them to tweak a design for 40nm instead of moving to 32nm. AMD/ATI have done this and are looking at having a big % boost in performance at a dis-proportionately smaller increase in power consumption and a similar price point to where the 5870 is now.

...whilst facing the possibility of lower profit-per-wafer because the die size has increased

How can anyone be disappointed with that?

[Sam_oslo]

The top single-GPU of a new generation usually beats/matches the double-GPU of last generation in performance and heat/power, with almost same price of the last gen single-GPU. It has been the rule of thumb in the past.

When AMD chooses to play nVidia's number-game in this round, then Cayman should beat the 5970 in performance and heat/power usage, with almost the same price of 5870 . If they can do that, then it's a good move, but that's going to be hard on the same 40nm node.

It will be inserting to see if they can pull off a "new generation" successfully, or it will be a re-fresh, re-brand, or evelution.

[Calmatory]

The top single-GPU of a new generation usually beats/matches the double-GPU of last generation in performance and heat/power, with almost same price of the last gen single-GPU. It has been the rule of thumb in the past.

When AMD chooses to play nVidia's number-game in this round, then Cayman should beat the 5970 in performance and heat/power usage, with almost the same price of 5870 . If they can do that, then it's a good move, but that's going to be hard on the same 40nm node.

It will be inserting to see if they can pull off a "new generation" successfully, or it will be a re-fresh, re-brand, or evelution.

Go away please.

How would YOU have done the naming? HD 5860 and HD5890? HD 5960/5990? HD5999 for Antilles? X2? Why X2 when there is no X2 for dual Cypress board? Doesn't the 4+1 -> 4D transition warrant a new gen naming? What about the rumoured upcoming Fusion products "polluting" the naming scheme for lower end SKUs? What about the possible future plans to introduce Caicos and Turks to lower end parts to replace Redwood and Cedar? The fact which Nvidia leaked that OEMs want new gen stuff badly to ship with their products just gives more of a reason to not keep them as HD5xxx parts. Do you honestly believe that it would've been better for consumers to have 4-6 new cards in HD5xxx series during the next few months? And that Nvidia would've gotten away with next gen stuff while AMD couldn't have delivered it until 28nm? What do you think that these "average joes" who supposedly feel pissed because of HD68xx would have felt about AMD because they "failed to bring out new stuff" while Nvidia would push GTx 5xx series?

And people still do not understand what maximum board power and TDP stands for, and what's the actual difference between those two even though it has been discussed multiple times here on XS and other boards during the past few years or so, and was clarified by SKYMTL recently. Sigh.

[Sam_oslo]

Go away please.

How would YOU have done the naming? HD 5860 and HD5890? HD 5960/5990? HD5999 for Antilles? X2? Why X2 when there is no X2 for dual Cypress board? Doesn't the 4+1 -> 4D transition warrant a new gen naming? What about the rumoured upcoming Fusion products "polluting" the naming scheme for lower end SKUs? What about the possible future plans to introduce Caicos and Turks to lower end parts to replace Redwood and Cedar? The fact which Nvidia leaked that OEMs want new gen stuff badly to ship with their products just gives more of a reason to not keep them as HD5xxx parts. Do you honestly believe that it would've been better for consumers to have 4-6 new cards in HD5xxx series during the next few months? And that Nvidia would've gotten away with next gen stuff while AMD couldn't have delivered it until 28nm? What do you think that these "average joes" who supposedly feel pissed because of HD68xx would have felt about AMD because they "failed to bring out new stuff" while Nvidia would push GTx 5xx series?

And people still do not understand what maximum board power and TDP stands for, and what's the actual difference between those two even though it has been discussed multiple times here on XS and other boards during the past few years or so, and was clarified by SKYMTL recently. Sigh.

Learn to respect others ideas, it's not up to you to invite or dismiss others, kid.

If AMD is going to use a new generation-number (with a new first-digit) then have to deliver the performance/power accordantly, otherwise a re-fresh, re-brand, or evolution should keep the generation-number.

It remains to be seen if Cayman can beat/match the performance/power 5970, and if it can't it would be a disappointment for many who are expecting to see a a real new generation.

[hurrdurr]

But it was you who said you needed a die shrink to call it a new generation. By your logic AMD should have never named Barts or Cayman as the 6xxx series; in spite of the fact that there are at least 5 new cards on this series. 5750 5770 5830 5850 5870 5970... where do you add five more cards? And maybe even more difficultly, how do you name your new cards so that the performance is in accord with the older cards and their performance?

Plus, by your logic the 4800 series shouldn't be called a new generation because they have been on the same node with 3800s. Yet 4800s performance blew 3800's away completely.

[Sam_oslo]

But it was you who said you needed a die shrink to call it a new generation. By your logic AMD should have never named Barts or Cayman as the 6xxx series; in spite of the fact that there are at least 5 new cards on this series. 5750 5770 5830 5850 5870 5970... where do you add five more cards? And maybe even more difficultly, how do you name your new cards so that the performance is in accord with the older cards and their performance?

Plus, by your logic the 4800 series shouldn't be called a new generation because they have been on the same node with 3800s. Yet 4800s performance blew 3800's away completely.

I personally mean you need a shrink to archive a real new generation. Because it's really hard to beat the performance and power of the dual-GPU of the last generator with a single-GPU based on the same 40nm.

Vi discussed this matter widely in Nvidia confirms the GTX 580 , and I'm not going to repeat it, but the final conclusion/undressing was that you need the architectural-changes who can archive a new level of performance/power to call it a "new generation".

It has been the rule of thumb in the past that, the top single-GPU of a new generation usually beats/matches the double-GPU of last generation in performance and heat/power, with almost same price of the last gen single-GPU. I want to see Cayman doing it, otherwise it will be a "fake" new generation.

[Funky]

Fortunately the semiconductor industry does not work on what one person thinks.
It has always worked on what is possible at any given time while being financially viable.
Even Intel, which has loads of money and invests heavily in its own fab does this. They release new architecture on old fab and then shrink it mid way in its life.
This whole screw-up of 40nm and delayed move to 32nm was bound to happen sometime in GFX industry. The pace at which this industry has moved is the reason we are where we are. This was just waiting to happen.
The whole double the performance / frequency every generation bubble burst in CPU industry a while back. It is waiting to burst in GPU industry. It will be a miracle and incredible feat on AMD's part if Cayman ends up being as fast as 5970.
At the moment 32nm cant happen. Period.. Move on and concentrate on what we might get.

It will be an achievement in itself if they can manage even 10% performance increase over GTX 480 while being a smaller, less power hungry chip. Enough has changed on the chip level to call it a new series. Enough time has passed to call it a new series. Nvidia was late to the party, not AMD.

[SpuTnicK]

here we go!





comments are welcome

[Sam_oslo]

Fortunately the semiconductor industry does not work on what one person thinks.
It has always worked on what is possible at any given time while being financially viable.
Even Intel, which has loads of money and invests heavily in its own fab does this. They release new architecture on old fab and then shrink it mid way in its life.
This whole screw-up of 40nm and delayed move to 32nm was bound to happen sometime in GFX industry. The pace at which this industry has moved is the reason we are where we are. This was just waiting to happen.
The whole double the performance / frequency every generation bubble burst in CPU industry a while back. It is waiting to burst in GPU industry. It will be a miracle and incredible feat on AMD's part if Cayman ends up being as fast as 5970.
At the moment 32nm cant happen. Period.. Move on and concentrate on what we might get.

It will be an achievement in itself if they can manage even 10% performance increase over GTX 480 while being a smaller, less power hungry chip. Enough has changed on the chip level to call it a new series. Enough time has passed to call it a new series. Nvidia was late to the party, not AMD.

If you have been following, I'm not blaming AMD only, I've been making a scene in GTX 580 thread too. It's matter of "rules and definitions" that these guys (both of them) are redefining in this round. But AMD has started this new number-game with a "fake" new generation of 68xx, in this round.

What Cayman can do remains to be seen, and I'm not concluding it's a "fake" generation" yet. I'm sure it's a improvement, achievement, evolution etc.. of 40nm node. I'm still hoping AMD can deliver what they promising. I will have the same expectation about nVidia's promises for GTX 580 too actually.

But Cayman needs to beat the performance/power of 5970 to become a "real" new generation. I hope it can do it, and I believe many are expecting it, and will get disappointed otherwise.

[Olivon]

~ HD5970 level

[Oztopher]

here we go!

*snip*

comments are welcome

Something is telling me that is only 6850 or 6870 crossfire

[RPGWiZaRD]

Well the performance wouldn't suprise me if the rumors about 255W TDP for this card would be correct, compare that to 151W of Barts XT, for 100W more it better be like at least close to HD5970 or beating GTX 480 by like 15%.

[Funky]

If you have been following, I'm not blaming AMD only, I've been making a scene in GTX 580 thread too. It's matter of "rules and definitions" that these guys (both of them) are redefining in this round. But AMD has started this new number-game with a "fake" new generation of 68xx, in this round.

What Cayman can do remains to be seen, and I'm not concluding it's a "fake" generation" yet. I'm sure it's a improvement, achievement, evolution etc.. of 40nm node. I'm still hoping AMD can deliver what they promising. I will have the same expectation about nVidia's promises for GTX 580 too actually.

But Cayman needs to beat the performance/power of 5970 to become a "real" new generation. I hope it can do it, and I believe many are expecting it, and will get disappointed otherwise.

I still dont understand your fixation about the "fake" generation even with 68xx.
I see it as a strategic move. Its made not by looking at the past, but the future. As I see it, it is first step in to making way for full fledged Fusion takeover of low end / mainstream graphics requirements of consumers.
There might still be a 67xx for this series, but not in the future. the x7xx and x6xx performance range might be taken over by Fusion chips.

[SpuTnicK]

image
~ HD5970 level

what is this? maybe its HD5970, or 470 SLI, Who knows?

[zalbard]

here we go!

comments are welcome

The Heaven screenshot has 6800 GPU in it. Nothing to discuss. Fake.

[Vipeax]

It remains to be seen if Cayman can beat/match the performance/power 5970, and if it can't it would be a disappointment for many who are expecting to see a a real new generation.

Good, that means those who are dissapointed (you) can skip this serie and leave more cards for those who will be happy to get a card that might be about only 10% away from 5870 X-fire performance (or rather act like 5850 X-fire on steroids without micro-stuttering and scaling drama).