Best performing/value SSD or duo, at 40-100GB?

[SteveRo]

Woah quick off the mark, I've much more to read yet, thanks!

No I just want a single OS-SSD for now, I'll prolly add a 2nd in Dec.
So you reckon the c30064 is the best performer now for MLC's @50-80GB?
What about similarly sized sandforce based drives?*

Is there any more progress in TRIM pass-through for Intel's controllers.
Or is it still looking like a pipe-dream?

I do want 2x SSD's for the RAID-0 scratch-disk of course...
What do you reckon are the two best disks for the job there?

Thanks again & night!
*N.B. I do have SATA6G

The vertex2 50 is ~180 so $30 more and less capacity but it is faster in sequential writes vs the c30064.

Nothing new on trim in raid - i wouldn't of thought this was so hard

Regarding the R0 scratch disk - others should chime in here but if adding an x25v to make 2xR0 is not fast enough sequential writes for you than maybe 2x regular vertex30's (something like 2xR0 r/w seq of ~350/200 mb/s)

[Johnny87au]

Woah quick off the mark, I've much more to read yet, thanks!

No I just want a single OS-SSD for now, I'll prolly add a 2nd & go RAID-0 in Dec.
So you reckon the c30064 is the best performer now for MLC's @50-80GB?
What about similarly sized sand-force based drives?*

Is there any more progress in TRIM pass-through for Intel's controllers.
Or is it still looking like a pipe-dream?

I do want 2x SSD's for the RAID-0 scratch-disk of course...
What do you reckon are the two best disks for the job there?

Thanks again & night!
*N.B. I do have SATA6G

Pump tops? I'm running 2 different pumps, the Laing variable speed pump and the Swiftech MCP655 Variable.

Why dont u just go raid0 for only a $100 and install OS on one of the SSD'S?? better to have 2 ssd's as they run faster and have more space then only 1 ssd, 100$ is alot cheaper to then any other 64gb.. P.S im aussie too and have the corsair 64gb ssd selling for only $150, used it once ..

[jalyst]

Yeah I'm thinking maybe I should just stay with X25-V (rather than sell) and add a 2nd?
80GB (approx) will be plenty of space for the dual OS installs I have in mind...
I can always sell my X25-V's in Dec+ & upgrade to the new performance leader; most likely Intel's next-gen?

Would RAID-0 of two X25-V's be faster than the best performing 50-100GB SSD's (MLC) out now?
I recall an Anand review where it topped most areas that count most for an OS-SSD, but that was 4mth+ ago so I'm not sure if that's still true.
Then you've got the issue of degradation, which RAID-0 X25-V's without TRIM don't handle as well as other SSD's.

What about for my scratch-disk, are two V+ G2 or Vertex still the best option out there?
It just needs very high seq/sustained r+w, other characteristics aren't that critical, aside from low $/GB & at least 60GB total capacity.

[jalyst]

WC Annihilus
Biker
audienceofone
Anvil
SteveRo
One_Hertz
Metroid
GullLars
naokaji
or Anyone....

I don't suppose you could offer your thoughts on this?
I'd be ever so grateful if you can? Much appreciated!
Thanks SteveRo & Johnny87au for your thoughts thus far.

[Ao1]

If I was you I would just get another X25-V. It would be the cheapest way to get the extra space you need. This assumes that you don't have another use for your existing X25-V. (I justify new parts on the basis that the rest of the pc's in the house get an upgrade as a result of a new part in my primary pc) It also assumes that you are happy with the performance of the X25-V. Most people will not notice any difference in performance between the current pick of the crop ssd's.

Intel next gen ssd will most likely come out in Jan 2011. No doubt it will be faster than anything out at the moment, but again I doubt if it will be something most people will notice.

There you go... my 2 cents.

[Anvil]

+1 with audienceofone

The Vs are great, the difference between the top performers is negligible for typical desktop usage.

Wait for the G3s before you decide what to do next, meanwhile the 2R0 X25-V would be my choice.

[Anvil]

If sequential throughput is what you need for the scratch drive I'd probably go for either the Samsung F3 1TB or the WD Black 1002FAEX 1TB drives, using 2R0.

I'm not quite sure of what you are looking for in performance.

[jalyst]

If sequential throughput is what you need for the scratch drive I'd probably go for either the Samsung F3 1TB or the WD Black 1002FAEX 1TB drives, using 2R0.

I'm not quite sure of what you are looking for in performance.

Thanks Anvil,

Unfortunately I've only got a WD1001FALS (WD Black 1TB) or a HD103SJ (Samsung F3 1TB)...
Would seq/sustained r+w differences between my proposed SSD RAID-0, & one of these drives (short-stroked) be negligible in real world terms?*
If you know, what exact differences are we talking?

Thanks again/night!
*Let me know if you need me to outline my planned uses in detail again.


**update**
Actually short-stroking only improves random I/O doesn't it?!

[SteveRo]

did i already recommend 2x x25v? (since you already have 1 right?)

edit - i thought short stroking improved everything (both seq and random).

[AceNZ]

Unfortunately I've only got a WD1001FALS (WD Black 1TB) or a HD103SJ (Samsung F3 1TB)...
Would seq/sustained r+w differences between my proposed SSD RAID-0, & one of these drives (short-stroked) be negligible in real world terms?*
If you know, what exact differences are we talking?

Max sustained read or write on a WD Black 1TB is 113 MB/s.

Max seq read on the X25-V is 170 MB/s, and max write is 35 MB/s. So a pair of them in R0 could be almost three times as fast as the HD in read, but only about 60% in multi-threaded or large block writes.

Most disk access patterns are heavily read-weighted, and more random than sequential -- so unless you're doing something particularly write-heavy, you should be better off with the SSDs than the HD.

Actually short-stroking only improves random I/O doesn't it?!

It can improve sequential too; the maximum sequential data rate is higher toward the outside edge of the drive. Here's a graph I did that shows typical HD sequential performance as a function of position:

[jalyst]

Thanks for offering your thoughts AceNZ.

Max sustained read or write on a WD Black 1TB is 113 MB/s.

Max seq read on the X25-V is 170 MB/s, and max write is 35 MB/s. So a pair of them in R0 could be almost three times as fast as the HD in read, but only about 60% in multi-threaded or large block writes.

Actually I'm wanting to compare a SSDNow V G2 64GB, & OCZ Vertex (or Adata) 30 or 60GB*, to the Black & F3.
The X25-V's are being considered for my OS/boot volume, not my scratch-disk.

Most disk access patterns are heavily read-weighted, and more random than sequential -- so unless you're doing something particularly write-heavy, you should be better off with the SSDs than the HD.

No this is for a scratch-disk (I outlined my workflow earlier), not an OS/boot volume.
I'm considering a 2nd X25V for my OS/boot volume.

It can improve sequential too; the maximum sequential data rate is higher toward the outside edge of the drive. Here's a graph I did that shows typical HD sequential performance as a function of position:

Ah thanks for confirming...
I wonder what sort of sustained/seq performance boost I'd be getting if I short-stroked it to 500GB?
Judging by that graph it'd be approx. 70MBps...

*Or any other SSD with high seq/sus. R+W & lowest $/GB (don't need much more than 60GB total capacity)

[Anvil]

Jalyst,

Samsung F3, short stroked to 500GB, avg 128.8MB/s.
HDTune_Benchmark_LSIMR9260-8i_F3_500GB.png

Writes would be about the same.


Read performance drops below 100MB/s at ~700GB

HDTune_Benchmark_SAMSUNG_HD103SJ_________ICH.png

[AceNZ]

Actually I'm wanting to compare a SSDNow V G2 64GB, & OCZ Vertex (or Adata) 30 or 60GB*, to the Black & F3.
The X25-V's are being considered for my OS/boot volume, not my scratch-disk.

I don't have first-hand experience with the SSDNow V G2 or the OCZ Vertex, but from what I've heard the published specs can be quite different from achievable performance. You might look on a review site like AnandTech, perpc or LegitReviews to see what they've measured.

No this is for a scratch-disk (I outlined my workflow earlier), not an OS/boot volume.
I'm considering a 2nd X25V for my OS/boot volume.

For a write-heavy scratch disk, you might also consider a SAS 6.0 15K rpm HDD such as the Seagate Cheetah 15K.7 instead of an SSD--particularly if your writes are mostly sequential. The 15K.7 has a 200 MB/s seq write rate, and doesn't wear out when it's written heavily.

I wonder what sort of sustained/seq performance boost I'd be getting if I short-stroked it to 500GB?
Judging by that graph it'd be approx. 70MBps...

No, that's 70 MB/s for a drive with an 82 MB/s max -- the equivalent on the WD Black would be about 96 MB/s at the 50% capacity point. From Anvil's post, it looks like the F3 is faster; not surprising, given that it has those ultra-dense platters.

[jalyst]

For a write-heavy scratch disk, you might also consider a SAS 6.0 15K rpm HDD such as the Seagate Cheetah 15K.7 instead of an SSD--particularly if your writes are mostly sequential. The 15K.7 has a 200 MB/s seq write rate, and doesn't wear out when it's written heavily.

Thanks going to see how things go with my short-stroked F3.
Is suspect it will be plenty good for the job...

No, that's 70 MB/s for a drive with an 82 MB/s max -- the equivalent on the WD Black would be about 96 MB/s at the 50% capacity point. From Anvil's post, it looks like the F3 is faster; not surprising, given that it has those ultra-dense platters.

Yeah it looks like the F3's a keeper for my HEPC build.
The Black will go into a HDD enclosure used for backing-up my Mac mini.

Thanks for your thoughts/help!

[SteveRo]

+1 2x x25v - best value since you already have one and just need one other

[Computurd]

I have never been to keen on the scratch disk SSD concept personally. much smarter to set up the F3 as your storage drive. just put the games, and other fast loading things on the ssd, and all pics, video, documents on the F3 is my advice.

[jalyst]

Jalyst,

Samsung F3, short stroked to 500GB, avg 128.8MB/s.
HDTune_Benchmark_LSIMR9260-8i_F3_500GB.png

Writes would be about the same.

64GB JMF618 is about 200MB/s read & 110MB/s write...
Not sure how a similarly sized Barefoot 60GB (Vertex or similar) would compare.
Hopefully this will be on the anandtech tool somewhere.

This is obviously substantially faster, but the question remains whether I need that 'oomph'?
Having a entire F3 re-purposed as a scratch-disk is performance enhancing in itself for the intended app.
So I'm thinking of settling on the following:

2x X25-V ..... (OS/boot volume, already own one)
1x F3 1TB .... (Scratch-disk, already own, short-stroked to 500GB)
This saves substantial $ so that there's room for:
2x Green 2TB (Storage volume, yet to buy)
Instead of waiting for my VMM/NAS build in 1-6 months!

Please lemme know what ya'll think of this config. as a whole?!

[Ao1]

I currently have an X25-M for OS. I use two external USB drives for storage which I sync with each other as a backup. (Call me paranoid but I also do periodical backups on separate drives that are not normally connected to my pc).

I’ve noticed a few issues with this set up, which would be the same if I was using hard drives connected to SATA.

I use power saving settings so the USB drives go into sleep mode when inactive. When I want to access them I have to wait for them to initialise. That takes time. First you wait for the spin up and then you wait for the access time. I could leave them running all the time but that is a waste of energy.

Certain programs search for all drives when they open, which causes a delay, even if the USB drives are active. For example the Intel toolbox tries to scan all drives to find the Intel drive, which cause an extended delay. If I have saved documents to the USB drive when I open certain programs it will trigger a search of all drives. Same thing with the Recycle Bin. If I delete files in the Recycle Bin that came from the USB drives it creates a delay whilst the OS looks for the drive and then spins it up.

Bottom line is I would be wary of HDD scratch disks. It just makes things more complicated to back up and you could end up waiting for the drives to spin up……which is even longer than waiting for HDD seek times.

The ideal solution is to use only SSD, but that it way to expensive. I’m inclined to try a 32GB USB pen drive, which I can use for frequently accessed and new storage files, which I can then periodically sync with the external usb drives when I connect them.

[jalyst]

Thanks for your thoughts,

I do see your point, & I'm now tempted to re-investigate whether I really do need a dedicated scratch-disk.
SSD/s for a dedicated scratch-disk is not an option at this time I feel, as the benefits don't quite justify the cost.

I already own the F3, & I definitely want one more HDD (maybe 2) that has a 2TB capacity.
So it's a matter of deciding whether I use the F3 as a scratch-disk, or merge it with my 2TB* & use that volume as my Storage & High STR bench.

Perhaps the best way to decide this is to dredge-up what I previously determined would be my rough work-flow?
Or then again just go with my instincts and if it works well enough in practise, leave it be?!

*using LVM etc.

[Anvil]

I haven't used a scratch drive for years.

If you continually (on a daily basis) write a lot of data (>20GB) I'd consider using the HDD for that purpose, you'd wear out the SSD prematurely.
Most SSDs are "tuned" for let's say 10-20GB per day, giving the 5 year or more life expectancy.

So basically, if you write less than 10-20GB per day I'd use the SSD and forget about the scratch drive.
Having said that, if you do a lot of sequential writes you might as well use the HDD, it's just as fast or faster than most SSD's. (less wear, same speed)

[Sam_oslo]

Is there any different between 64GB Crucial C300 1.8" and 2.5" in any other way than the size?

I want to use at in a desktop-PC tho, but can't find a 2.5" in stock. I found a 1.8" in stock, and guess it would be as good, right?

[Anvil]

Sam,

Same performance, different connectors, you'd need an microSATA -> SATA adapter. (3.3V)

I've ordered some C300 64GB at komplett and it just got delayed for another 3 weeks. (ordered 6 weeks ago)
Nizzen ordered from Ireland and has already received a few.

[Sam_oslo]

Thx, for your replay, Anvil.
I wasn't aware of microSATA , and the need for adapter. I don't want to deal with that thing.

Yeah, I was looking for the same drive to get in stock, but it is delayed, again I guess we have to wait, again.

[Anvil]

Sam,

I decided to get an Vertex 2 60GB while waiting...
(I'll call komplett tomorrow anyways, I need to know when to expect the C300s, >2 months delivery is not what I expected)

Why don't you go for the 128GB C300, the price is quite nice atm.

[Sam_oslo]

Sam,

I decided to get an Vertex 2 60GB while waiting...
(I'll call komplett tomorrow anyways, I need to know when to expect the C300s, >2 months delivery is not what I expected)

Why don't you go for the 128GB C300, the price is quite nice atm.

I got used to my little Vertex 30GB and I'm afraid 128GB is going to get too much for me. , but you are right the new price is tempting.

I've been looking into Vertex 2 60GB too, maybe I should get one these after all. Because that c300 64GB can get delayed again. This is getting difficult now.