Most of the 5xxx ATI reviews are from 9.10-9.11.Originally Posted by Piotrsama
When consumers look at benchmarks. They take performance as a static number.
When the new reviews for fermi are done and if the 5xxxx cards are rebenched ...totally different story.
Everything will reflect that high difference
Those reviews don't include fermis.
New reviews should use newer drivers, so using 10.2 instead of 10.3 wouldn't make a big difference.
I don't think a serious site would use 9.11 in a new review.
ok so if i get what sayaa said ... ati and nvidia send their last gen card to be a test card form the new fab process... if it come back according to expected specs it means it went well and they can start the real production of intended product right ????
Exactly, which is why I said they should rebench. Duh.Those reviews don't include fermis.
New reviews should use newer drivers, so using 10.2 instead of 10.3 wouldn't make a big difference.
I don't think a serious site would use 9.11 in a new review.
All the reviews have been done and published. Final reviews. Ages ago
Everyone references them and not one review rebenches a card past the initial driver packages.
My post was perfect and clear. You're just stirring crap. And it's smelling.
Would someone link me to this 9.11 versus 10.3 article you are all talking about? I have just finished rebenching all the ATI cards with 10.3 drivers and I am seeing very little to no difference between 9.12 and 10.3 on the majority of cards other than the HD 5970...
No need to act like an ass.
And no, your post wasn't *perfect*, you wrote "5xxxx", so there goes your perfection Mr. Flawless.
Sure thing.
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com...ver_Comparison
i think it's some with one card but more with cf
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1216/
You would say that aren't your alliences with nVidia...or atleast seem to side in their favour....
yeah... he isn't with the crowd who base their facts on Charlie's articles and other similar hugely unbiased information. He's clearly a NV fanboy.
INTEL Core i7 920 // ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 // OCZ 3G1600 6GB // POWERCOLOR HD5970 // Cooler Master HAF 932 // Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme // SAMSUNG T260 26"Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
He puts out some of the best graphics cards reviews these days so he can be as biased or unbiased as he likes as long as he keeps doing that. In terms of whether or not 10.3 is some huge boost over 9.11 it doesn't really matter. If you look at other reviews at tweaktown etc, you'll see minimal differences from 9.12->10.2. In the end all that matters is what performance is like in Fermi comparisons.
do not question dear leader!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks.
Not 100% sure where those numbers come from (which tests & settings are used) but yes, there are some reasonable gains in DiRT 2 and BF: BC2 from 9.11 to even 10.2 but otherwise, all the other games I have tested (AvP, Far Cry 2, Dragon Age, DoW, Borderlands, Batman: AA in game, etc) have seen next to no differences with single cards. The 10.3 drivers are really designed to take advantage of Crossfire solutions including the HD 5970 as was stated by ATI.
Will the 10.3 drivers cause sudden jumps in performance of ATI's single GPU cards? Not likely but they could make Crossfire all that more appealing.
There are however some things that people should be aware of (and no, this isn't anti-ATI...I am just stating facts):
- The possibility of seeing pre-overclocked 1Ghz HD 5870 cards at or near the launch of NVIDIA's cards is next to nill. Every board partner I have spoken to has been having issues binning sufficient quantities of chips that will clock to 1Ghz with a reasonable amount of voltage. Hence why cards like the MSI Lightning and ASUS Matrix are clocked quite a bit below 1Ghz. Gigabyte might do it with their SoC but I have been hearing 900 - 925Mhz lately.
- The HD 5970 @ $700 is next to non-existent. This means NVIDIA can literally price the GTX 480 (depending on performance) close to the HD 5970 and still have the cards sell extremely well.
Those are just the facts. IMO, ATI's HD 5870 2GB will be a great contender but we all know that since it bundles several expensive DisplayPort dongles, it will be priced excessively high.
Last edited by SKYMTL; 03-13-2010 at 10:03 AM.
I'm seeing couple more game titles and benchmarks benefiting single HD5870 using Cat.10.3beta, but obviously majority of older games have not gained anything or very little. This however doesn't concern me at all because all of them put enough performance @1920x1200 for me already.
I'm really happy DX11 performance has been increased in this driver release!
Regarding 1GHz factory clocked Cypress I agree 100%. It will take new (successful) revision of chip to bring yeilds good enough to bin 1GHz factory clocked. On the other hand AMD might actually did that already and we just don't know it at this point.
I'm curious if what neilz said on another forum is true state of things or just misinterpretation:
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You're completly wrong and that's sad to read this kind of comment.
SKYMTL is one of the trustworthy XS members. Please, use your brain a little more. The world isn't just black or white. The slight differences exist.
None of those are facts though, it's still speculation. The new catalyst drivers are a big improvement over launch drivers, but most review sites won't take the time to re-review the cards. Once the initial results are in, I have rarely seen an update across the board for new drivers.
The next revision of cypress has been rumored to clock very well, (I know, just a rumor, but the same as what you have been saying) so it's not out of the realm of possibility that 1Ghz cards are on the horizon.
Rumors usually have some truth to them, and it's been a long time since I've heard a positive rumor about fermi that had any credibility. As a potential fermi buyer, I am kicking myself for not buying the 5870 at launch right now
Thats not a fact,thats a rumour for now ;-)
That one i dont get,for one i live in a pretty small and poor country,i can order HD5970 now and have it shipped in 24hrs.Its been like this for months now,the cards are very high end, so there arent alot of them,but not because of lack of them, but retaileres dont wanna stock much of them,cos they sell tiny amount of them,and every price fluctuation can cost them more then they make on them.- The HD 5970 @ $700 is next to non-existent. This means NVIDIA can literally price the GTX 480 (depending on performance) close to the HD 5970 and still have the cards sell extremely well.
So two opinions, not a straight 100% facts.
And i bet nvidia will price GTX480 close to HD5970,but the reason is they have small amount of cards too(and definetely MUCH less then 5970 shipped so far.Besides nvidia owners tend to be very loyal.)
This bit seems skewed too, there will be many flavours of 5870 2GB,not just eyefinity edition.And using word "excessively",so what ,nvidias 470 and 480 wont be priced "excessively" too if they offer comparable performance ?.Those are just the facts. IMO, ATI's HD 5870 2GB will be a great contender but we all know that since it bundles several expensive DisplayPort dongles, it will be priced excessively high.
There gonna be and are factory overclocked 5870s,not only 1ghz.
One example of such incoming card is asus matrix 2gb.
And yea, pretty much all of this incoming lot of cards are gonna be expensive.Fermis,2gb atis,overclocked 2gb atis and so on.
And the main reason for this seems to be lack of performance and/or availability on a 6 month late nvidia product.
No tough competition=High prices.
Funny that it is coming from someone running Dual HD2900
Intel Core I7 920 @ 3.8GHZ 1.28V (Core Contact Freezer)
Asus X58 P6T
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XFX HD5870
WD 1TB Black HD
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Cooler Master HAF 922
where is that review ?
Talk about pot calling the kettle black.Seriously don't try to perpetuate that bs, atleast not at this forum. 90% of nvidia card owners I see here talk as if they would go either way for their next, where as 90% of ATI card owners start foaming at the mouth should anyone mention buying an nvidia card in their midst. Even with my hatred of flaky support for older games my next card could very well be an ATI. Specially with the plain as day issues with fermi.
most of nvidia users that i know are loyal like dogs i doubt that any of them will change side even if fermi will fail like fx seriesthey just need one game to hang on something like doom 3 of this gen lol
Last edited by eric66; 03-13-2010 at 12:50 PM.
sortof, yeah... it doesnt matter if it comes back alright or not, the important part is that its a known to work design, so if something goes wrong, its 99% because of the new mfc process and not a design flaw. if you start a new design on a new process things can get messy... thats why intel and amd always shrink and then start a new design on a known process, ie tick tock...
you bench with an oced cpu, right?
that might explain it... a lot of driver tweaks are related to cpu performance, thats why drivers tend to make the biggest difference on old systems and have small or no impacts on overclocked or highend systems. OR they only show in xfire and sli, where cpu perf is a factor again...
i dont think its impossible to buy a 5970 if you want to buy one... availability is low, but isnt that because there isnt that high of a demand for it?
and why are you comparing the 480 with the 5970? and then mention availability? so you think the 480 will be widely available? seriously?
the comment about 1150mhz rv870 on air is odd...
i find that hard to believe... maybe with a massive heatsink, and even then the numbers of those cards should be rather small... but hey, ati might be able to bin as many 1150 rv870 gpus as nvidia can get 480s
1150 = 850 + 35%
but you need some headroom for clocks, so if they can clock to 1150 they would be sold as 1100... still a healthy boost and it might get rv870 into gf100 perf terriroty...
i think this is very unrealistic, but IF ati or one of their partners manages to push a single rv870 card to 480 levels... that would be VERY impressive...
a 2bn gpu perfmorming like a 3bn gpu...
I wasnt doing any namecalling, fanboism or any of that BS.Talk about pot calling the kettle black.
Im talking about loyal customers,thats pretty much best way to describe people who tend to buy/use services of mostly one company.\
And i was not talking about this forum,this is xtremesystems, reality outside it looks pretty different.Im talking about average Joe the gamer, not a hardcore hardware enthusiast
And my thoughts arent coming from any forums really, there are trolls everywhere these days, sometimes its hard to assess things on forums properly.I work with few computers stores and have many clients myself.And when they buy nvidia, really most of them stick with it for years, even if at times they get more bang for they buck from ati, and when i explain to them why, they listen to me carefully but rarely change from nvidia to ati.This is brand recognition and years of TWIMTB and some long gone ati problems that are still in people heads.
This is the thing that nvidia did almost always better than ati.
This is a psychological advantage for nvidia, its really there, its the same reason people bought P4 prescotts.BRAND is more important to a lot of people than deep hardware analysis.
btw:
So, remind me, who is doing namecalling bs ?where as 90% of ATI card owners start foaming at the mouth should anyone mention buying an nvidia card in their midst.
Besides situation where most nvidia users here would want to change to ati isnt exactly weird this time because ati has dx11 good performing and low power consuming cards for half a year.
And this is the same reason,CURRENTLY ati user has no incentive to switch to team green.It MAY change after fermi release.
Last edited by RaV[666]; 03-13-2010 at 01:50 PM.
or unigene benchmark? lolmost of nvidia users that i know are loyal like dogs i doubt that any of them will change side even if fermi will fail like fx series
Its the custom highend boards, ROG, Matrix, Lightning, etc. he was also talking about overclocking those cards.the comment about 1150mhz rv870 on air is odd...
i find that hard to believe... maybe with a massive heatsink, and even then the numbers of those cards should be rather small... but hey, ati might be able to bin as many 1150 rv870 gpus as nvidia can get 480s
1150 = 850 + 35%
but you need some headroom for clocks, so if they can clock to 1150 they would be sold as 1100... still a healthy boost and it might get rv870 into gf100 perf terriroty...
i think this is very unrealistic, but IF ati or one of their partners manages to push a single rv870 card to 480 levels... that would be VERY impressive...
a 2bn gpu perfmorming like a 3bn gpu...
Originally Posted by motown_steve
Every genocide that was committed during the 20th century has been preceded by the disarmament of the target population. Once the government outlaws your guns your life becomes a luxury afforded to you by the state. You become a tool to benefit the state. Should you cease to benefit the state or even worse become an annoyance or even a hindrance to the state then your life becomes more trouble than it is worth.
Once the government outlaws your guns your life is forfeit. You're already dead, it's just a question of when they are going to get around to you.
In so many ways that its ironically funny, nVidia's current situation mirrors AMD Phenom vs Intel.
Phenom was supposed to be better architecture - native quad. Ended up delayed quite a lot. Like Fermi, its was bigger chip vs Intel's simpler Core2 quad solution.
But, the "real" problem revealed itself 1 year later. Many notebooks and low-end PC continued to ship with Core2 - AMD couldn't put Phenom was too big and power hungry for notebook.
Likewise, unless nVidia is keeping the best secret of all time, they will fail big time in mid-range and low-end (and thus total DX11 revenue). AMD's already saturated market for 6 months. Even if nVidia launched TODAY, they can't turn back time and make up so many months, and AMD can easily cut prices making market penetration very difficult.
EDIT: IMHO I dont think nVidia mid-range will launch in March, or even April.
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