The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[FischOderAal]

GF100 Graphics Architecture White Paper <-- do you expect to read something about Tesla is such a PDF?

Different question: do you expect to read something about Geforce in such a PDF?

[jaredpace]

kravis @ b3d says he has 470 review numbers:

GTX470 will have a score of 167xx and 73xx, under Performance preset (1280x1048, 1x AA) and Extreme preset (1900x1200, 4xAA) respectively. Which are 13% and 20% faster than GTX285 and is quite competitive when compared to the results of 5870 under Performance preset.

GTX470 will have a wide lead in the benchmarks of the DX10 game, Far Cry 2, with 80fps under the following settings: 1920x1200, 4xAA, 16xAF. However, as there are different benchmarks of Far Cry 2, the data is not ideal for making comparisons with other video cards.

GTX470 can achieve a frame rate of around 30fps during the DX11 Uniengine Benchmark [tessellation] under 1920x1200, with 4xAA and 16xAF, which is apparently better than the 5870.

[eric66]

so are there two benchs existing on the whole freaking world all i hear is heaven and far cry 2 lol

[jaredpace]

they probably recommend heaven & fc2 in the benchsuite because performance is so good. Kinda like how ati wan'ts people to bench battleforge on the 5xxx.

[-Sweeper_]

they removed ''...you may even be able to buy one before anyone else'' from: www.nvidia.com/object/paxeast.html

they must have realized it souded like a joke

[zalbard]

they probably recommend heaven & fc2 in the benchsuite because performance is so good. Kinda like how ati wan'ts people to bench battleforge on the 5xxx.

Yeah, makes sense.
Actually, all the numbers you've posted seem about right. We need some pricing details, though.

they removed ''...you may even be able to buy one before anyone else'' from: www.nvidia.com/object/paxeast.html

they must have realized it souded like a joke

Haha, or it just means that you may simply not be able to buy a card then!

[labs23]

Yeah, makes sense.
Actually, all the numbers you've posted seem about right. We need some pricing details, though.

Haha, or it just means that you may simply not be able to buy a card then!

Its uber-good, makes Jensen realize he'll have to give it for free. Yep, you read that right, for free!

[spursindonesia]

According to these data:



Test: Cards 2009 ; A recent overview of the market @computerbase.de
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.
.
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HD 5870 is 28% faster than GTX 285 in Vantage Performance, and 37% faster likewise in Vantage Extreme, so if those leaked numbers are correct and coming from a card with the right clock & driver, it really doesn't look good at all for GF 100 prospect. Not to mention that review by computerbase.de is an old one, newer Catalyst will make it even worse.

[BenchZowner]

If I say, if ( and that's a BIG IF ) the GTX 470 turns out to be just a bit faster than the 5870, and the GTX 480 about 30-40% faster than the 5870, would you call that a failure ? a success ? or just ok ?

[jam2k]

Well, Far Cry2 always performed better on nV hardware ... it looks like nV will only release cherry picked benchmarks.

[InCredible]

@benchzowner it would of been a huge success 6 months ago..now id say just ok ..if its anything less..failure.

[saaya]

9k wafers total of the A silicon.
Not all those wafers will be ready for launch, they have to space out the availability until B1/B2 is ready, late Q2/early Q3 if the B silicon rumor is true.

do you think B is still GF100 or GF104?

Now i know why the multi-quote button changes to Saaya

that was a gift from one of the admins a few years back, heh

He also claimed the high end Fermi part had been castrated to 448 SPs.

no, he said there will be 512core parts but probably only very very few...

No PC exclusive games = No need for better performance.

yes, so true and so sad...

I am following the GPU-Buiness since 10 years. There was never the case, that the high end part was a cut down version.
And so it will be in March. Even if nvidia got only 10.000 512SPs at start, it would be dumb to not release this part.

bs! you dont know what your talking about man!
do some research!

they removed ''...you may even be able to buy one before anyone else'' from: www.nvidia.com/object/paxeast.html

they must have realized it souded like a joke

wow... really?

If I say, if ( and that's a BIG IF ) the GTX 470 turns out to be just a bit faster than the 5870, and the GTX 480 about 30-40% faster than the 5870, would you call that a failure ? a success ? or just ok ?

depends on the price
if gtx480 costs 400$ and is 35% faster than a 5870 thats VERY nice!!!
if it costs 35% more for being 35% faster, then its ok... (~533$)

if the 470 costs 250$ and is between a 5850 and 5870, thats VERY nice!!!
if it costs about the same as a 5850 (~300$) and is as fast as a 5870, then thats ok...

[cegras]

If I say, if ( and that's a BIG IF ) the GTX 470 turns out to be just a bit faster than the 5870, and the GTX 480 about 30-40% faster than the 5870, would you call that a failure ? a success ? or just ok ?

That's not bad at all. At those performance margins prices settle nicely. But then again, the nvidia vomit will come back with a vengeance.

[CadESin]

If I say, if ( and that's a BIG IF ) the GTX 470 turns out to be just a bit faster than the 5870, and the GTX 480 about 30-40% faster than the 5870, would you call that a failure ? a success ? or just ok ?

For us the consumer it depends on the cost, if the GTX 480 is around 30% faster then a 5870 and costs 40% more its a mild success.

For Nvidia Fermi is simply to late to be a success for them, its become a Joke, my friends who know nothing about Video Cards, now know about Fermi and how late and how much of a joke it has become.

Fermi has been and will continue to be a PR problem for Nvidia unless it rocks the world, even a 30% speed increase over 5870 is not going to make people forget that its 2010 and we wanted Fermi in 2009.

I was planing on going to PAX anyway, and I am rather excited to see what Nvidia has to offer, not because I expect Fermi to be amazing, but I want to see them talk there way out of preventing me from buying one when I am there.

[naokaji]

I don't think the difference between the 470 and 480 will be that big, but anyway, if it would indeed be 30% - 40% faster than the 5870 then yes it could be considered a success, simply put, the ati refresh would not be able to counter it then, so it would be a success for nvidia, but of course we would loose as it would mean high prices.

[Etihtsarom]

We need the 470 to be priced around 400, not more. It has got to be able to beat 5870 in price/performance, else failure. If 480 = ~30%>5870 And costs 30% more than 5870, then all this wait would have been wasted b/c 5870 price will not go down fast enough.

[kadozer]

30% in most games over a 5870 is pretty damn impressive and I'm more leaning towards AMD side. 20-30% meh and <20% = Fail.

[damha]

30% in most games over a 5870 is pretty damn impressive and I'm more leaning towards AMD side. 20-30% meh and <20% = Fail.

Not to mention AMD is more than capable of slashing prices after all of this dominance.

Imagine AMD drops prices by $100 the day that 470 launches.

That wouldn't just be rubbing salt in the wounds. That would be:
- Rubbing salt in the wounds
- Add some vinegar
- A bit of alcohol
- A flamethrower to blend everything together
- A pinch of salt on top

Can AMD do it?

[saaya]

Not to mention AMD is more than capable of slashing prices after all of this dominance.

Imagine AMD drops prices by $100 the day that 470 launches.

That wouldn't just be rubbing salt in the wounds. That would be:
- Rubbing salt in the wounds
- Add some vinegar
- A bit of alcohol
- A flamethrower to blend everything together
- A pinch of salt on top

Can AMD do it?

they can and still make a nice margin on their cards afaik
but whether they will do it is another question...
if you consider that amd might still be limited by tsmcs 40nm wafer output, and nvidia is even more volume restricted... it doesnt make sense to cut prices as it barely affects marketshare or sales volume : /

[Taskforce]

I downgraded from a GTX 260 to a Evga GTS 250 1gb and the difference is only marginal, sometimes 6fps, for me there won't be a need to upgrade graphics card until new consoles are out since they're the one holding back progress.

[FischOderAal]

I'd consider 30 percent faster a success, if it is priced right.

Not to mention AMD is more than capable of slashing prices after all of this dominance.

Imagine AMD drops prices by $100 the day that 470 launches.

[...]

Can AMD do it?

Imho the question is: does AMD want that? I think they are happy the way prices are and NVIDIA (obviously) doesn't have much room to go down with the price.

I think prices will stay quite high compared to last generation.

[Dimitriman]

If I say, if ( and that's a BIG IF ) the GTX 470 turns out to be just a bit faster than the 5870, and the GTX 480 about 30-40% faster than the 5870, would you call that a failure ? a success ? or just ok ?

Honestly, I think if 480 is 30-40% faster than 5870, that means it will literally touch 5970 performance, often match it.

not gonna happen.

20% faster is a success at a competitive price.

PS: If 480 was 35% faster than 5870, nvidia would not stop talking about it...

[ElSel10]

when nvidia talks about gf100 we don't know to which series of cards they refer to.

Yes we do. It was disclosed in the whitepaper that GF100 denotes GeForce and Tesla is something else.

The education system is really failing humanity.

Couldn't have said it better.

GF100 is a chip. GTX 480 is a part based on that chip that may or may not have all SM's enabled.

Yes, I am sure the master plan is to produce a chip that is never actually used. How did I not see that before?

You know how the top announced Tesla SKU only has 14 of the SM's enabled though it's based on the same chip? Why is such a simple thing so difficult for you to understand?

Yes, that is for Tesla. It's been confirmed by Nvidia from several sources that the high end GeForce part has the full 512 SPs. Period. There isn't any argument here and you're not doing anything for your reputation by trying to create one.

they removed ''...you may even be able to buy one before anyone else'' from: www.nvidia.com/object/paxeast.html

they must have realized it souded like a joke

Yeah, they removed the vague wording and have instead revealed the GTX470 and 480 launch date outright.

[570091D]

depends on the price
if gtx480 costs 400$ and is 35% faster than a 5870 thats VERY nice!!!
if it costs 35% more for being 35% faster, then its ok... (~533$)

if the 470 costs 250$ and is between a 5850 and 5870, thats VERY nice!!!
if it costs about the same as a 5850 (~300$) and is as fast as a 5870, then thats ok...

i think that's being very optimistic, if the gtx470 can beat the 5870 then i can see them asking nearly $500 for it. that makes me cringe at the price of a gtx480... we may find ourselves back to the price gouging days... i'm certain nvidia will price the cards according to their final performance numbers, so we might not see much of a price war.

[jmke]

I downgraded from a GTX 260 to a Evga GTS 250 1gb and the difference is only marginal, sometimes 6fps, for me there won't be a need to upgrade graphics card until new consoles are out since they're the one holding back progress.

that's because you're running running the latest games with AA at 1920x1200 or higher resolution