The GT300/Fermi Thread

[LedHed]

it would be nice for this thread to actually contain news in it

[ElSel10]

I believe ATI will skip HD6000 series and jump straight to HD7000 or even HD8000 which will be waaayy.. faster and much much more more powerful.

eat that NVIDIA!

Yeah, uh huh

[***Deimos***]

they said 2 million units shipped, i think that makes it pretty clear. Dunno why everyone doubts ati/amds announcement, they delivered on everything they said, all releases came as announced, no delays etc., we have no reasons to doubt it

2009, TMSC 40nm for graphics alone: HD4770, nVidia GTS220, GTS240, HD58xx, HD57xx

Now in Jan, add HD56xx/HD55xx.

Seems like getting 2 millions shipped units would be tough sharing capacity for all these different chips. But 2 million is a drop in the bucket compared to global PC sales (most of which are notebooks) of HUNDREDS of millions annually.

Lets assume the 2 million is HD58xx only. It launched Sept 23, 4 months ago. So about 500 000 / month. Each chip is 334mm^2. 300mm wafer has area of about 70 680mm^2. Thats 211 (although some are cutoff). Conservatively Guess-timate by multiplying by 20% (not yield), we get 42.

So our worst case scenario is 11 900 wafers per month. Well bellow the 40 000 wafers / month capacity.

In reality most shipments have surely been the "low end" HD57xx which has tiny 166mm^2 die size. With only 6000 wafers per month, AMD could have easily shipped 2 million DX11 products.

[HelixPC]

DOUBLE POST, sorry

[HelixPC]

Nvidia's in trouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuble!

At least they still have a healthy group of believers to try and spread the message for the time being. Wonder how long that will even last?

I dont think nVidia is in a hurry, and no they are not in trouble, considering the GTX 295, 285, 275, 260, can play all the games out now. Still selling well as well.

[Sly Fox]

I dont think nVidia is in a hurry, and no they are not in trouble, considering the GTX 295, 285, 275, 260, can play all the games out now. Still selling well as well.

It's easy to say they're not in trouble, when you have no faith in ATI.

We'll see how this all lines up in reality, but Nvidia reeks of desperation too much for everything to be A-OK. At the very least I don't think they're going to make the sort of profit margin they planned on.

[ajaidev]

I dont think nVidia is in a hurry, and no they are not in trouble, considering the GTX 295, 285, 275, 260, can play all the games out now. Still selling well as well.

GTX 295 not in stock
GTX 285 in stock around $390
GTX 275 not in stock
GTX 260 in stock aroun $190

5850 in stock around $290
5870 in stock around $399
4870 in stock around $155

4870 is cheaper than the GTX 260 and not only beats it but gives problems for the GTX285 in some game.

5850 faster than GTX 285 in everthing and $100 less expensive also supports DX11.

5870 around the cost of the GTX 285 can take on the GTX295 in most cases tough it does not mean it will win every-time. So no Nvidia is not ok at their current position they need fermi and derivatives sooner than later.

[HelixPC]

my main rig has a 5870, my secondary rig has a gtx 285 2gb, 3rd rig has a gtx 275. I like the 5870 obviously, but i like nvidia's drivers MUCH better.

[neliz]

We're comparing drivers of Cypress (4 months old now) to the very mature almost two year old gt200 drivers? lol

oh.. and fudzilla Isn't actually the first to say such a thing

I can honestly say I never had a game fail on me or be unplayable because of bad catalyst drivers without there being a workaround.

[LedHed]

NVIDIA already announced they were pulling all 200 Series from production except GTX 275 based cards (295 and that 275 Co-Op by eVGA). If they aren't in stock that is a problem with the retailer, or NVIDIA is focusing solely on getting the GT300 out and skimping on quantities of the GT200b cards.

It's really funny how many people are in this thread defending their ATI purchases, over at Guru3D they ban you for talking about ATI hardware in the NVIDIA section/thread. Thank God for XtremeSystems

Also the 275's are in stock, I don't know what the user a few posts above is talking about, hell here is the 275 Co-Op card which should be the hardest to fine (GT200b + G92 on single PCB): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-527-_-Product

But honestly this close to the GT300 who is going to buy a GTX 275 or 295 now after waiting for so long after their launch? Any NVIDIA consumer looking at their cards is going to wait until the GT300 is here.

[spursindonesia]

We're comparing drivers of Cypress (4 months old now) to the very mature almost two year old gt200 drivers? lol

oh.. and fudzilla Isn't actually the first to say such a thing

I can honestly say I never had a game fail on me or be unplayable because of bad catalyst drivers without there being a workaround.

Neliz, bro, can you please enlighten me ? According to that pic, GTX 380/360 seems like a January/early Q1 products, but we know that's not the case.

So, does the pic talk about card/mArch introduction ala "Deep Dive to Fermi" of yesterday ??

[LordEC911]

NVIDIA already announced they were pulling all 200 Series from production except GTX 275 based cards (295 and that 275 Co-Op by eVGA). If they aren't in stock that is a problem with the retailer, or NVIDIA is focusing solely on getting the GT300 out and skimping on quantities of the GT200b cards.

It's really funny how many people are in this thread defending their ATI purchases, over at Guru3D they ban you for talking about ATI hardware in the NVIDIA section/thread. Thank God for XtremeSystems

Also the 275's are in stock, I don't know what the user a few posts above is talking about, hell here is the 275 Co-Op card which should be the hardest to fine (GT200b + G92 on single PCB): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-527-_-Product

But honestly this close to the GT300 who is going to buy a GTX 275 or 295 now after waiting for so long after their launch? Any NVIDIA consumer looking at their cards is going to wait until the GT300 is here.

G200b has been EOL for quite awhile now...
There is still some very limited supply/inventory but nothing is currently in production.

Neliz, bro, can you please enlighten me ? According to that pic, GTX 380/360 seems like a January/early Q1 products, but we know that's not the case.

So, does the pic talk about card/mArch introduction ala "Deep Dive to Fermi" of yesterday ??

That slide is from awhile ago.

[eric66]

NVIDIA already announced they were pulling all 200 Series from production except GTX 275 based cards (295 and that 275 Co-Op by eVGA). If they aren't in stock that is a problem with the retailer, or NVIDIA is focusing solely on getting the GT300 out and skimping on quantities of the GT200b cards.

It's really funny how many people are in this thread defending their ATI purchases, over at Guru3D they ban you for talking about ATI hardware in the NVIDIA section/thread. Thank God for XtremeSystems

Also the 275's are in stock, I don't know what the user a few posts above is talking about, hell here is the 275 Co-Op card which should be the hardest to fine (GT200b + G92 on single PCB): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-527-_-Product

But honestly this close to the GT300 who is going to buy a GTX 275 or 295 now after waiting for so long after their launch? Any NVIDIA consumer looking at their cards is going to wait until the GT300 is here.

gtx 275 co op i doubt its hard to find cause thats only product evga can sell right now except imaginary fermi line and you must be real nvidiot to buy that by the way

[saaya]

At least they still have a healthy group of believers to try and spread the message for the time being. Wonder how long that will even last?

theres still a healthy 3dfx fan community around... its mostly asleep, but just go around and say something bad about 3dfx and youll get poked from all sides

thats the worst thing... if 3dfx would still be around, it would just be another company, but they died and as a result somehow reached martyr status in the minds of many gamers and enthusiasts... all the bad things and problems are long forgotten, and the good things are exaggerated beyond reason

skipping a series, thats technically impossible, you cant skip something that never existed. Of course, im guessing this was meant to be sarcastic

its very possible... xbox's xenos was supposed to be a desktop gpu but was cancelled/skipped, instead ati double pumped their previous design and built on that... both ati and nvidia have done this several times, and even intel and amd... what ever happened to K9? it was skipped/cancelled pretty early in dev process... intel wanted to launch an x86 SOC several times, they failed and were cancelled... what happened to tejas, the next thing after prescott? skipped/cancelled as well...

I can honestly say I never had a game fail on me or be unplayable because of bad catalyst drivers without there being a workaround.

you never had an X2 card then i guess
its really ironic how nvidia and sli push dual gpu cards as the highend gaming solutions, but when comparing gaming experience they tend to have waaay more issues than single gpu highend cards...

dual gpu cards only make sense for huge res 24" or 30" monitors, but even then they have serioues issues... what do hardcore gamers play on? the fastest single gpu cards hooked up to 19" tfts or even 17" or 19" crts... and theres a reason for it...

[neliz]

its very possible... xbox's xenos was supposed to be a desktop gpu but was cancelled/skipped, instead ati double pumped their previous design and built on that...

Do not speak about R400 in vein! thanks to that marvelous idea (which was about 5 years too soon) we now enjoy Cypress.

[firas]

It's really funny how many people are in this thread defending their ATI purchases,

funny & boring.

[SKYMTL]

gtx 275 co op i doubt its hard to find cause thats only product evga can sell right now except imaginary fermi line and you must be real nvidiot to buy that by the way

I see nothing wrong with the Co-Op. If anything, it is a unique card that shows the industry and consumers we should actually HOPE that more companies come up with new, innovative and interesting ideas. If people begin ****ing all over it, shame on them.

I for one am sick and tired of reference-based cards popping up everywhere I look.

As for the lack of other high-end NVIDIA cards (GTX 275, etc.), it was a smart move popping them into EOL status. They couldn't be produced at a competitive price so instead of loosing money on every card sold, they were axed. Seems like a smart move to me...

[zalbard]

I for one am sick and tired of reference-based cards popping up everywhere I look.

QFT.
WTB more non-reference cards, look how good MSI Lightning cards are, now imagine we had more unique designs like this... OCing dream!

[eric66]

I see nothing wrong with the Co-Op. If anything, it is a unique card that shows the industry and consumers we should actually HOPE that more companies come up with new, innovative and interesting ideas. If people begin ****ing all over it, shame on them.

I for one am sick and tired of reference-based cards popping up everywhere I look.

As for the lack of other high-end NVIDIA cards (GTX 275, etc.), it was a smart move popping them into EOL status. They couldn't be produced at a competitive price so instead of loosing money on every card sold, they were axed. Seems like a smart move to me...

yeah very smart move now they don't have anything against 5000 series or even 4000 series if they plan eol everything cause of there production cost i fear that fermis live will be short too as for co op thats total rip off with only 2 or 3 proper physx titles you must real embesile to pay 369 while you can get 5870 for 20 more

[saaya]

Do not speak about R400 in vein! thanks to that marvelous idea (which was about 5 years too soon) we now enjoy Cypress.

hmmm well ati was lucky that MS picked it up, for a console it was perfect... 360 wouldnt have lived half as long without it... i think a big part of ps3 failing is due to the 360 performing that well even now in its late days...

but for a desktop gpu r400 would have been worse than r600 i believe...

I see nothing wrong with the Co-Op.

what what what? :o
you see nothing wrong with a card that bundles a castrated g92 that can only be used for physix and not graphics processing? how about the fact that it is prices higher than buying a gt200 and g92 seperately? still not convinced?
how about nvidia recommending everybody to buy a 260 as a physix card just when the co-op was launched, because "a g92 is too weak for physix acceleration in the latest and upcomming titles"?

[SKYMTL]

what what what? :o
you see nothing wrong with a card that bundles a castrated g92 that can only be used for physix and not graphics processing? how about the fact that it is prices higher than buying a gt200 and g92 seperately? still not convinced?
how about nvidia recommending everybody to buy a 260 as a physix card just when the co-op was launched, because "a g92 is too weak for physix acceleration in the latest and upcomming titles"?

If you read what I wrote, you will see my statement has nothing to do with price, performance or anything along those lines. Rather, it was a comment that more companies should be taking EVGA's lead and thinking outside the box.

As for the Co-Op, it has its uses. Systems with a single PCI-E slot, folders, etc. can all benefit from the two-in-one approach and yes, you pay extra for that. That's life.

[saaya]

If you read what I wrote, you will see my statement has nothing to do with price, performance or anything along those lines. Rather, it was a comment that more companies should be taking EVGA's lead and thinking outside the box.

As for the Co-Op, it has its uses. Systems with a single PCI-E slot, folders, etc. can all benefit from the two-in-one approach and yes, you pay extra for that. That's life.

ok, i actually agree on that... i think asus did much better with their mars though... i mean think about it, that card will most likely outperform even the fastest 512core fermi

the 260+250 frankenstein card was really odd and pretty pointless...
systems with a single pciE slot could have gone for a 9800gx2 or 295 instead...
is it possible to let one of the gpus on those cards run physix actually? shouldnt be a problem right?

[Nedjo]

hmmm well ati was lucky that MS picked it up, for a console it was perfect... 360 wouldnt have lived half as long without it... i think a big part of ps3 failing is due to the 360 performing that well even now in its late days...

yeah! It's absolutely stunning what developers are able to squeeze out of the Xenos!

This in-game trailer for upcoming Halo: Reach is testimonial of how this graphics architecture was future-proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kco1sYXGwYE

[Nightcover]

yeah! It's absolutely stunning what developers are able to squeeze out of the Xenos!

This in-game trailer for upcoming Halo: Reach is testimonial of how this graphics architecture was future-proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kco1sYXGwYE

Are you trying to be sarcastic or are you really serious?

[saaya]

yeah! It's absolutely stunning what developers are able to squeeze out of the Xenos!

This in-game trailer for upcoming Halo: Reach is testimonial of how this graphics architecture was future-proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kco1sYXGwYE

mhhh the graphics are pretty good, especially for the 360... but... thats the most boring trailer ive ever seen... 0_o theres like 0 story in it... nothing...