What would it take to build a cryogenic cooler?

[Shingoshi]

Why ask, you have not listened to anything that you have been told so far.

I should stop what I'm doing and not consider anything other than what I'm told to do...
Yeah, I'm not listening!

I willingly and graciously accept the choice of any person to stop following this thread.
Otherwise, I'm going to have way too much fun watching all of the complaints that keep streaming in.
That alone is worth you're sticking around!

Shingoshi

[quintus]

Y dont u accept the fact that u run your mouth and dont do a damn thing!??!???!??????? SPAMER!!!
Build a single stage with your vertex-univers-black-hole-vacuuming ''compressor'' and then we will take u seriously

All the best,
q

[SoddemFX]

That is destined to be sig line material, Can I use it?

By all means.

And if anyone of you have better ideas of how to manage the requirements of this system with fewer components, let me know. I'd like to see a list of what you'd be willing to settle on to get by with less.

It's a tough call but i think that you should limit your build to only using components made on the 18th moon of Saturn. In addition to this, bear in mind that technical literature can make or break a complex project such as this - so only use these components if they come with full documentation.

The last part is PPE (personal protective equipment) when you are working. Procedure for the construction of a normal system is to wear goggles and gloves but given the high level of complexity involved in a project such as this, i recommend that you wear a 2 x 2 x 6 foot steel enclosure with locks on both the inside and outside. Make sure the enclosure is bolted firmly to the floor and is situated in an unpopulated area.

Tom

[Naja002]

The last part is PPE (personal protective equipment) when you are working. Procedure for the construction of a normal system is to wear goggles and gloves but given the high level of complexity involved in a project such as this i recommend that you wear a 2 x 2 x 6 foot steel enclosure with locks on both the inside and outside. Make sure the enclosure is bolted firmly to the floor and is situated in an unpopulated area.

Tom

Personally, Tom, that's a good idea, but at Shingoshi's skill level I think he should contact Troy Hurtubise @ Project Grizzly

More video history of Troy's work.

[gosmeyer]

It's a tough call but i think that you should limit your build to only using components made on the 18th moon of Saturn.

Tom

Pure enjoyment
I want to be a fly on the wall with Barrie, Dave, Paul, and Yourself in a Pub!!

[teyber]

you are going to need at least $1k of oil seps

the parts collecting won't be done till at least january? common. just build a damn single stage..

[EvoCarlos]

Personally, Tom, that's a good idea, but at Shingoshi's skill level I think he should contact Troy Hurtubise @ Project Grizzly

More video history of Troy's work.

even project grizzly started at the bottom then evolveld thru time

mitsubishi i think its a good idea to build a small unit and improve on it over time
i have done this i started with a single stage and now build bigger stronger units

even god took his time
http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/sevncrea.htm

[[XC] gomeler]

Shingoshi,

I really do enjoy reading your material more for the fact that it jogs some cogs into motion that haven't really rotated in a long time. I like that you are trying to explore other forms of refrigeration in an attempt to build a rather novel idea. However I see this gigantic project failing to even begin construction as you'll be overwhelmed by the sheer price.

A lot of us have said you should start simple. We aren't saying this because we want to distract you, hold you back, or prove that vertex-univers-black-hole-vacuuming devices are useless. I imagine most of us deep down would like to see some new builds but we know that there are basics that you need to cover before you foul up several hundred dollars in parts due to not knowing how to braze or utilize a shielding gas.

Grab one of those Rechis, a decent condenser, a suction line from Ron and maybe one of Teyber's new evaps and build a single-stage to start. 10 days piecing that together will give you a better idea of if you are up to this gigantic project you have proposed. If that works I'd then suggest tackling a simple two stage cascade and see if you can get that to run while holding a load. Get that settled in and then give your vertex-univers-black-hole-vacuuming devices a whirl.

Sure, it's going to be 6-12 months of knuckle bruising as you learn how to braze and tune these things but in those 6 months you'll learn WAY more than you can learn with Google. Google and Youtube can't teach you how to braze, you've got to royally screw up an evaporator first

Good luck, I want to see you succeed in 2010 after accomplishing this.

Walt, you're always worried about details. He'll just wrap the compressors in electric heat blankets and that'll fix that. With the extra wattage he'll lose a few degrees, but a good shot of extra R744 will take care of that. See? Now wasn't that easy......

This wasn't serious right? The oil will be freezing in the evaporator, not the compressors. Still not sure if this was serious or another jab

Unlike your posts, which i would describe as several hundred lines of meandering diatribe culminating in 12lbs of horse sh*t and three dozen confused readers.

I frankly have no idea what you are trying to do. I have received more comprehensible correspondence from Mr Obuwonga Mwahahu, who i believe wishes to give me a 10% share of his $12M fortune held in the royal bank of Nigeria.

Tom

oh my god.. I knew there was a reason why I like people from the UK. In ~50 words you managed to sum up several thousand

[Shingoshi]

Or more precisely, laying more boards out to make my case!


I simply don't have the option to build something SIMPLE. It never was my intent to do so, and NEVER will be. As is evident, I already have the boards for this project. They need a home, and I have to build one. It's kind of like all of you telling me to move into a single room house, with FOUR kids!!

These are my FOUR Tyan S2912 motherboards. Each measuring 13"x12". They hold two processors each with 4 DIMM slots/processor. I have laid them out in the manner they will be assembled. Overlapping them as I have done here will allow me access to all processors for mounting my cooling blocks, while still being able to mount them in less than a 1U space in the top of the case. With all of my inexperience, it seems I'm doing just fine with the details of this project.

So if you're too impatient, too short-sighted and too unimaginative to comprehend why this project was undertaken, and that it's NOT going to change, I STRONGLY SUGGEST YOU SEEK COUNSELING, ELSEWHERE!!

Shingoshi

[[XC] gomeler]

Have it your way. This is going to be fun to watch crash and burn

[tiborrr]

Why the hell did thread describing propane purging got locked, deleted or otherwise removed, but this one, potentially fatal - stays?

[sjg0]

Why the hell did thread describing propane purging got locked, deleted or otherwise removed, but this one, potentially fatal - stays?

That's what I would like to know...

[ultralo1]

With all of my inexperience, it seems I'm doing just fine with the details of this project.

He is a legend in his own mind.

To the rest of us you are a chew toy, AKA a source of amusement for us to play with.

The answer to all your quetions is 42!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CmB]

I can't wait to read about this project in Dave Barry's column (or some other humourist). Anyone want to guess at the Headlines?

[teyber]

so shingoshi, im trying to be civil so dont just skip over this for that reason lol.

You stated yourself for $ reasons you won't have all the parts till at least january. and most likely it will be further thn that as you didn't mention oil seps.

That leaves you ~ half a year, in which you said you won't build experience because the single stage won't cover your needs.

You are being very closed minded about this and you are underestimating the complexity of even the most simple of these units.

why don't you do as gomeler said them sell the builds for pretty cheap to fund the bigger projects, so that way you know you have the skill needed (er, well should) and the money to start the big project right after you sell the ss/cascade or w/e.

Or, get a big compressor, a very large cascade condenser, a danfoss tes2 and that 60 plate hx you bought and make a really big chiller. pipe it from a different room so size/heat/noise isn't an issue. TBH i bet you will have a very hard time getting that to work. and that would be 1/10000th as hard as what you are describing.

Just take these things to heart don't just say oh hes trying to discourage me or w/e. You have no idea what your getting yourself into and you will inevitably fail.

Cheers

[eligray]

so shingoshi, im trying to be civil so dont just skip over this for that reason lol.

You stated yourself for $ reasons you won't have all the parts till at least january. and most likely it will be further thn that as you didn't mention oil seps.

That leaves you ~ half a year, in which you said you won't build experience because the single stage won't cover your needs.

You are being very closed minded about this and you are underestimating the complexity of even the most simple of these units.

why don't you do as gomeler said them sell the builds for pretty cheap to fund the bigger projects, so that way you know you have the skill needed (er, well should) and the money to start the big project right after you sell the ss/cascade or w/e.

Or, get a big compressor, a very large cascade condenser, a danfoss tes2 and that 60 plate hx you bought and make a really big chiller. pipe it from a different room so size/heat/noise isn't an issue. TBH i bet you will have a very hard time getting that to work. and that would be 1/10000th as hard as what you are describing.

Just take these things to heart don't just say oh hes trying to discourage me or w/e. You have no idea what your getting yourself into and you will inevitably fail.

Cheers

+100

Shingoshi, I just built my first unit, and I can tell you that it's way too easy to overlook 98% of the work that will go into a project.

I also think that you should just get a large compressor, a large condenser, a Plate HX, and a TXV, and just make a chiller. You will almost certainly succeed with a chiller, and I'd honestly bet at 1:20 odds that your other system won't work out as planned.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a new type of cooling system; however, I don't think that you have the experience or knowledge yet to make one.

Make a beast of a chiller with say R134a, and be happy with it. It'll be reliable, semi-compact, almost certain to work, much cheaper, etc.

[sdumper]

This thread is too funny

[Shingoshi]

I'm pretty sure Jinu can attest to Cryo-tek's truthiness. Your posting in the same way that anyone could go "I count all of wd's post as bullsh** as I've never seen him post a picture or truly answer questions as direct as I'd like to see them directly posted."

As far as regassing a polycold, the unit DID NOT have a polycold mix of gases in it upon receiving.

sometime you can be made to beleive what is not true,because you your self don't know the truth.

I never posted a picture because I never built a rig to phase cool cpu's yet.
you don't have to beleive what I say either ,I can't force anyone.

I admit I haven't read the rest of this thread yet (EDIT: I have now). But I'm just curious if you've built a phase-change system since you posted this about three years ago?

For the record, I'm not cryo-tech. I will post pictures at every stage of my build, and they won't be blurry. EDIT: They will be as sharp as my Sony DSC-P32 allows. I will provide proof of everything I have accomplished. And whatever knowledge I don't have now, will be gathered as I proceed through my build. I will have the time to learn everything that I need to know. Especially as I'm now reading through the old posts here and elsewhere.

And since no one here actually knew this, let me be perfectly clear. I am a trained welder, arc welding and brazing included. In fact, I was a metal sculptor, any very meticulous. So your concerns for my lack of ability is completely unjustified. Just so you know...

Shingoshi

EDIT: The process of cooling the heated outlet refrigerant from my two-stage vortex tubes will probably be the greatest load in the system. And that load will be stable during the entire time that the system is running. Providing enough evaporation to condense my coldest refrigerant will be the system's first goal. Cooling my processors will essentially be incidental to the actual running of the system. So for the most part, cooling of my processors will be a by-product of the operational system. Meaning I will concentrate on condensing my lowest temperature refrigerant, and cooling my processors secondarily. This is specifically why I'm concentrating on building the refrigeration system as my highest priority.

EDIT: There is one major concern that I have in running a 24/7 server. And that concern is that the system can still operate, even at a diminished capacity if any one component fails. That's the major benefit of having four parallel compressors in my first-stage. If one of them fails, I have three more to fall back on. If the second-stage goes down, it won't be as much of an issue as the first-stage.

[Naja002]

And since no one here actually knew this, let me be perfectly clear. I am a trained welder, arc welding and brazing included. In fact, I was a metal sculptor, any very meticulous. So your concerns for my lack of ability is completely unjustified. Just so you know...

Shingoshi

If your pictures reflect your skills from when you was a photographer, then, please, go ahead and get the bear proof suit.

EDIT: They will be as sharp as my Sony DSC-P32 allows.

Forget the equipment. Your pix show a total lack of photography skillz. You can't blame that on the equipment. You're gunna need that suit, Shingoshi.

[SexyMF]

This has turned rather sad. It is a sad reflection on almost all posters. You don't look good by bagging somebody else. They may be way off the mark but most of the comments now are just snide remarks made without even constructive criticism.

Yes it (not being quite sure of what it exatly will be) is grand - but just let the guy have a go at it.


In terms of a simple comment Shingoshi, you will need better grade tubing and reserviors to cope with low temp working liquid.

[Naja002]

This has turned rather sad. It is a sad reflection on almost all posters. You don't look good by bagging somebody else. They may be way off the mark but most of the comments now are just snide remarks made without even constructive criticism.

Yes it (not being quite sure of what it exatly will be) is grand - but just let the guy have a go at it.

Bagging the baggers really isn't helpful either. This thread has run it's "helpful" course-helpful, helpful via constructive criticism, helpful via criticism, helpful via humor, admonishment....gee, what's left? Now it is simply at a wait-state. And humans, when left to wait, usually seek some form of entertainment for themselves.....

[Shingoshi]

This has turned rather sad. It is a sad reflection on almost all posters. You don't look good by bagging somebody else. They may be way off the mark but most of the comments now are just snide remarks made without even constructive criticism.

Yes it (not being quite sure of what it exatly will be) is grand - but just let the guy have a go at it.


In terms of a simple comment Shingoshi, you will need better grade tubing and reserviors to cope with low temp working liquid.

Frankly, I've found the constant attack(s) to be nothing more than I sign of gross immaturity. And as with all children, I simply choose to ignore nonsense like this. That having been said, I really wish to thank you for the recognition of this.

Shingoshi

[Shingoshi]

Last night I went to bed thinking about this issue from another point of view. What's required for a turboexpander to work in a situation like this is predominantly it's size. I had initially investigated the use of small turbochargers for motorcycles having a displacement of 500cc. But I quickly realized the amount of flow through them would simply be too great for any system of this size. So then I thought about my old hobby, radio controlled aircraft. It dawned on me that if turbochargers existed for them, they would be properly suited for this project. So now I submit to all of you the following:
1.) RC turbo charger

2.)
3.) How to Make Turbochargers for Nitro Powered RC Cars

Now that we've seen what one would look like, those of you who have the means (metal working materials) should now focus on how to produce one, instead of the constant rants about why this is impossible or implausible. Simply put, start being productive contributors to a working solution, instead of only wanting to detract from one.

Shingoshi

[Gautam]

This has turned rather sad. It is a sad reflection on almost all posters. You don't look good by bagging somebody else. They may be way off the mark but most of the comments now are just snide remarks made without even constructive criticism.

Yes it is. If the thread bothers you then just ignore it. If the OP bothers you, put him on your ignore list.

If you don't have anything nice to say...

[EvoCarlos]

There is one major concern that I have in running a 24/7 server. And that concern is that the system can still operate, even at a diminished capacity if any one component fails. That's the major benefit of having four parallel compressors in my first-stage. If one of them fails, I have three more to fall back on. If the second-stage goes down, it won't be as much of an issue as the first-stage.

but if one of the compressors were to fail in a link system then you would have big problems
compressor burn out would probbly destroy the other comps conncted as the contaimnats in the cycle would cause the problem or block the filter causing a system blockage ..