New Formula One Overclocking Competition Announced

[K404]

-40C forced air chambers

-40 is wuss air Siberian winter hits -80 and not a compressor in sight

[Russian]

Okay guys, it looks like we have two schools of thought. We have the... lets be fair to everyone school of thought and the balls to the walls go as fast as we can school of thought. Personally, i prefer the balls to the walls school of thought, with possibly different leagues below for watercooling and aircooling as well as phase and ln2 that can potentially feed into the F1 league and bring in new guys into the mix...

[Drwho?]

Exactly. Retail is unpredictable, we could all be benching at 4.8GHz-5.0GHz if the chips aren't pre-screened.



... have you read anything everyone else has written or do you have global ignore enabled? We aren't asking for stupid chips that clock to unimaginable frequencies. All the majority of us want are EQUAL CHIPS. You talk of regulation, THAT IS WHAT WE WANT! If we have everyone using retail chips I guarantee you there will be results all over the place, Core i7 is like a crapshoot. Even if you pre-bin a series of chips and CHARGE US it would be better than having everyone hunting through retail stores blowing money that could be spent on cooling. We already do this with HWBot, the point was to make this event different and over the top.

Francois Cliff Notes:
We want regulation
We want chips that have been pre-screened/binned/regulated to perform close to each other.
We don't want to know who has the biggest wallet or best chip source, we want the event to be fun.


I might be an ass at times but I believe I understand the fun this could be, even as a spectator, and I'm going to be as loud as I can be to see that this happens.


and in closing..


EXACTLY! The fictitious kid you speak of shouldn't be trying to figure out why his Core i7 975 won't do 5.1GHz on LN2.

also, if someone thinks I should shut up for slamming on Francois, let me know and management will take it under consideration

I was part of the small team that created the Extreme Edition. Those kind of effort requires massive efforts, it is not as simple as you think. Speaking for myself, I have to choose between focusing on making an extreme edition that many thousands of people use or focusing on few sample for a set of priviledge people can use ... I focus on making the most number of people happy, with High end processors , high Intruction per clock, high Frequency .. awesome performance.
You guys can do your home work and find the best chips, this is part of being a good overclocker ...

[K404]

You guys can do your home work and find the best chips, this is part of being a rich overclocker ...

Sorry Francois, I had to fix what you said. My implication isnt just for using Intel chips but ALL good components.

[ryba]

Like always there is no place for Poland

[BustaH]

I was part of the small team that created the Extreme Edition. Those kind of effort requires massive efforts, it is not as simple as you think. Speaking for myself, I have to choose between focusing on making an extreme edition that many thousands of people use or focusing on few sample for a set of priviledge people can use ... I focus on making the most number of people happy, with High end processors , high Intruction per clock, high Frequency .. awesome performance.
You guys can do your home work and find the best chips, this is part of being a good overclocker ...

Im not sure you took in what Gomeler was saying, its not just about having super chips. retail chips that are pretested to find SIMILAR ability, they could be retail no?

As Kenny said above, not everyone is in the financial position to 'find' a chip that is going to compete,

i.e mrx buys 10 cpus to find a good one, mr. b. can only buy one [at a push] so has to rely on luck rather than judgement.
some will some wont thats why your statement about chip selection being part of being a good overclocker fails, cant you see that?

It's begining to turn into a mantra, this comp is about finding the best overclockers not the best off financially or those with the best contacts.

cpus pre selected by a neutral person would be best imo. no one can then say well my cpu was not up to it or I was unlucky.

[[XC] gomeler]

I was part of the small team that created the Extreme Edition. Those kind of effort requires massive efforts, it is not as simple as you think. Speaking for myself, I have to choose between focusing on making an extreme edition that many thousands of people use or focusing on few sample for a set of priviledge people can use ... I focus on making the most number of people happy, with High end processors , high Intruction per clock, high Frequency .. awesome performance.
You guys can do your home work and find the best chips, this is part of being a good overclocker ...

Seriously? I don't even think you read what I wrote. There really is no talking sense to you.

I already explained what I mean by cherry samples, but apparently the message is not coming across to some people. For the last time: Intel getting involved in all this has as sole purpose to:

1) Make sure the chips used in the competition are good chips, so that we're not benching at 5GHz.
2) Make sure the playing field is pretty much equal, so that we're not benching 5.3G against 5.8G.
3) To exclude having TOO much money involved going to hardware parts that are not made by the team's sponsor. If Asus sponsors a team, it's to show the quality of their products, not the quality/luck/wallet of the chip/bencher.

Maybe this first could be AMD-LN2 only? I'm sure manufacturers could use the feedback on those motherboards. Only Hipro5 would be mad then, though

1,2,3: agreed.

I think this is a wise idea given the last page. Good bye 975, hello TWKR. It would be a lot of fun watching the top guys play with Phenom II, I know I've really enjoyed it.

[lolhalol]

yeah all AMD- LN2 Would be nice.. and it would be nice to watch as well live.. full ln2 pots and big GHZ numbers... thats what the NON- Ocing people would probably take in more in a cpuz screenie.. i remember showing a friend a 3.6ghz oc from 1.8 and he was like wOWOWOWOW...

[Drwho?]

Im not sure you took in what Gomeler was saying, its not just about having super chips. retail chips that are pretested to find SIMILAR ability, they could be retail no?

As Kenny said above, not everyone is in the financial position to 'find' a chip that is going to compete,

i.e mrx buys 10 cpus to find a good one, mr. b. can only buy one [at a push] so has to rely on luck rather than judgement.
some will some wont thats why your statement about chip selection being part of being a good overclocker fails, cant you see that?

It's begining to turn into a mantra, this comp is about finding the best overclockers not the best off financially or those with the best contacts.

cpus pre selected by a neutral person would be best imo. no one can then say well my cpu was not up to it or I was unlucky.

As I said, and please ready it CAREFULLY, "sorting chips in a Fab that produce millions of Chips is not as easy as doing it in a fab producing thousands ... adding a stage in the fab to do so would be too costly".
This is not something that is possible to do without having serious inpact on the latency of a Fab. I can't give you details, but this is not going to happen.
in the mean time, there is a step to make the Extreme Edition, this step is the best in the industry, I can't believe that you guys are always asking for more.
Levelling the play ground for a competition is fairly easy , that is what Gigabyte did with 975 production chip at GooC 2009. So, your point does not stand. You have exactly what you need in the store as Gigabyte did.

So, you have your way to make your play ground egal. Stop telling me I am not reading.

Francois

[[XC] riptide]

~snip~

Just give us all them, high leakage, super hot chips you'd normally throw in the bin. Thanx.

[thebluemeanie1]

If they are going to bin the chips so they all perform nearly the same and so no one gets one that is better than anyone elses, why bother overclocking?

[[XC] riptide]

If they are going to bin the chips so they all perform nearly the same and so no one gets one that is better than anyone elses, why bother overclocking?

There is this notion of personal skill involved. Same chip to two guys(women) could yield diff results with teh skillz!

[K404]

As I said, and please ready it CAREFULLY, "sorting chips in a Fab that produce millions of Chips is not as easy as doing it in a fab producing thousands ... adding a stage in the fab to do so would be too costly".
This is not something that is possible to do without having serious inpact on the latency of a Fab.

You might be slightly misunderstanding how we would like to see chips binned. It doesnt have to be Intel staff who bin them- as you say the time needed wouldnt be well-spent for the benefit.

Im sure there are some people in the enthusiast circle who (maybe for a price?) would be willing to roughly bin the chips if Intel supplied a few trays. They dont have to be special competition-marked chips, tweaked architecture, ES or anything like that- just trays of retail chips that are to be sorted as worthy of competition status or not.

It will for sure remove the chips with crap memory controllers or worthless BCLK ceilings.

Intel dont have to be so hands-on here. Supplying the chips at all would get mass gratitude and you're seen supporting the scene.

Things dont have to be so difficult- simple is good




________________________

On a completely different note.

IF the participants are expected to put their hands in their pockets to buy the right gear for this and are kicking out scores on a par or EVEN BETTER than whats being produced in the competiton then

A/ who is it for anyone to say they arent worthy of being in the competition. They've bought into it, that should make it a free for all

Which

B/ makes the competition pointless. Its HWB with more spotlights (as I said before) and an elitist air to it

[massman]

Eliminate the factor luck and money by providing those chips, much like you did on GOOC (brilliant move).

Levelling the play ground for a competition is fairly easy , that is what Gigabyte did with 975 production chip at GooC 2009. So, your point does not stand. You have exactly what you need in the store as Gigabyte did.

Stop telling me I am not reading.

Okay!

[BustaH]

, I can't believe that you guys are always asking for more.
Stop telling me I am not reading.

Francois

With respect I think we may be reading off different pages

[[XC] gomeler]

As I said, and please ready it CAREFULLY, "sorting chips in a Fab that produce millions of Chips is not as easy as doing it in a fab producing thousands ... adding a stage in the fab to do so would be too costly".
This is not something that is possible to do without having serious inpact on the latency of a Fab. I can't give you details, but this is not going to happen.
in the mean time, there is a step to make the Extreme Edition, this step is the best in the industry, I can't believe that you guys are always asking for more.
Levelling the play ground for a competition is fairly easy , that is what Gigabyte did with 975 production chip at GooC 2009. So, your point does not stand. You have exactly what you need in the store as Gigabyte did.

So, you have your way to make your play ground egal. Stop telling me I am not reading.

Francois

See, how simple was that Francois? You could have simply explained this to us and ended it there. The stuff about the kid and the homework? That was..

You might be slightly misunderstanding how we would like to see chips binned. It doesnt have to be Intel staff who bin them- as you say the time needed wouldnt be well-spent for the benefit.

Im sure there are some people in the enthusiast circle who (maybe for a price?) would be willing to roughly bin the chips if Intel supplied a few trays. They dont have to be special competition-marked chips, tweaked architecture, ES or anything like that- just trays of retail chips that are to be sorted as worthy of competition status or not.

It will for sure remove the chips with crap memory controllers or worthless BCLK ceilings.

Intel dont have to be so hands-on here. Supplying the chips at all would get mass gratitude and you're seen supporting the scene.

Things dont have to be so difficult- simple is good

I have a cascade, a Classified and cheap power and I know there have to be at least another dozen guys globally with cascades and access to a Classified or similar quality board. Send 20 CPUs to each and in a weeks time they could have them mapped out with the modest fee of keeping the best one for the tester. I'm sure you could find 1 person on each continent to handle this. I call dibs on NA

Just give us all them, high leakage, super hot chips you'd normally throw in the bin. Thanx.

This.

[Buckeye]

Gomeler I would be very happy to help out with that

[The_Overclocker]

I was looking forward seeing you bench 3Dmark06 with EVGA board - wait - I don't think EVGA has a board that has onboard graphics - right ????

I think there's a few manufacturers that don't. However, this test is very important... some people have been getting superb performance out of lowly onboard graphics. The potential to change the retail market with this competition and particular test, is what we're really striving for. It also will be a real challenge to the competitors.

Another potential test could be to bench a mobo that costs under US$100 retail. Just for the hell of it. All hypothetically of course.

More tests will appear in season two. Anything that doesn't work we can get rid of remember.

[The_Overclocker]

I know things are getting a bit heated, but there are some good ideas coming out of this so keep it coming please (but lose the personal attacks).

If people are starting to be put off - worry not - I am keeping this as simple as possible. At all costs. At least for season one. Some replies...

i reckon if Intel does support this event with their super cherries it should be more even then us using retail cause it's all about how much money someone can throw at it in such instance and some ppl will be able to do a lot more spending then others cough Andre cough haha

To be fair I mentioned very early indeed that Francois promised no cherries to anyone. It got forgotten along the way. Then came back. Then noone believed him. All the selected teams have access to good chips. We'll see if that's a problem after season one.

Let's give a chance to everybody and use a levelled play ground.
Francois

Yes and no. People will be binning chips. But of the 28 participants... they all will. Let's not say it's a problem until it is one.

If retail boards from competing manufacturer teams are not even in the same league, then its the manufacturer who looks like the tool for having hardware design.
I would like to propose that manufacturer teams are limited to their products only! While freelance teams can use whatever they want/can get.

I rather like the idea of a manufacturer using another manufacturer's board. Shamino said he'd use a Rampage when he was on for EVGA (for some tests). I pointed out that each competitor's kit will be listed for each round - that's the whole point - so the common and garden tech enthusiast can quickly scan the results to see who makes the best hardware. Imagine if the top four one month all used Gigabyte motherboards (Team Gigabyte and eg Team Australia). It would look good for Gigabyte over every other manufacturer.

If i wasnt working 50+ hours a week in a country where LN2 supply is basically a no go, high end hardware doesnt exist (and try buying online using an Indonesian credit card not to mention the tax ) and the nightlife is, hmmm, lets say, fun, then yes i would definately have volunteered to enter.

I hear ya!

Any of the prviate teams will have to put up a very hard fight in order to be competitive - purchasing multiple CPUs will become very costly. HWbot is a great place for an even playing ground. If the manufacturer teams have a big budget - they should have a nice advantage. For the private teams will there be any prizes? Or is this competition simply for the glory? I would like to assess how far the individual benchmarks are set in stone - to get a basic idea what kind of a bugdet it would require to be competitve in this.

Also I would really get a grasp on the rules. When I went to my first live competition at GOOC I was a bit shocked how loose the rules were - not that this is an issue, but it would help to know what to expect in advance. At the contest it turned out for example that things like "disable post processing" in 3Dmark06 were total fine to be done. No biggie - if we know - all tweaks are go - all tweaks will be go. Just takes time to prepare for that.

Every competitor picked gets free CPUs from somewhere. That's F1 for you. But all have got to that point by progressing on the HWBot ranks. Long may this contiune.

Rules for tweaks and mods will be formalised but we've had enough live comps to get a good idea of what's allowed... off the top of my head... all mods are OK... but manufacturing silicon especially for a test is not... unless it's available for retail before the month starts.

I am out of this thread, too many people interested into getting their own agenda established ... Too many free airplane tickets got distributed recently!
I am interested into the young kid who have fun with his hardware, not into the dude trying to make money out of it.

Francois

This shows how out of hand things got there. Chill people!

Mike, I don't see how this is an issue. Just becasue the teams are private, doesn't mean they won't have sponsors & backing

For example, Gigabyte has their own team, but they could also sponsor Tom's team with mobos & graphics.

I imagine lots of teams will be using the same hardware.

Is it in the companies best interests to do that? Funding a team that could beat their own with someone elses hardware involved?

I dont mean to be so negative, but I do see a lot of potential pitfalls. Im not sure pitting companies directly against each other will necessarily end well.

You worry too much!

I couldnt agree more, yet if you have a friend who wants to lend you hardware so you can prove how good of a clocker you are, they disqualify the score, saying you dont OWN the hardware... What about all the cherry ES chips taht some get given to them?

none of us regular guys stand a chance. If it werent for alot of my friends i wouldnt have half the stuff I have now or even had the chance to go subzero, but singling out and having a select few that get the best, means the rest of us buy the product knowing all too well that our product will probably never net us the scores like we see here.

F1 will not have this rule.

Personally I would like to see some of these top overclockers use something other than a Extreme chip. Now there's a test of skill and luck of a draw. How many i7 920's have we seen running 5GHz+ 3DMark 06 or Vantage. That would take us back to the not so distant day of the celeron 300A's we all chased off the shelves to overclock. Things were somewhat level back in the non extreme days.

Certainly - from season two we'll see how far people can clock lesser chips.

After checking with my hiearchy, i can confirm that we will not provide special samples, all divisions are in synch. That is better this way, the play ground is leveled on the Core i7 side.
Francois

I thought this was agreed ages ago. I'm sure manufacturers will have access to more chips. We'll change things in a reactionary way though. Not until there's a definite problem. No saying I told you so, mind

If I understood well, we will compete against each other AND against the Manufacturer's teams?.......

You guys write TOO much and I - personally - don't have that much time to read them all.....

You're all against each other mate. That's all. Simple

That would be a very boring contest then, I would mod a CPU to be able to run SuperPI at 6.5Ghz, and kill the contest ...
I don t think Manufacturer should have a team, that make all of the other team irrelevant.
Even in F1, they have rules for weight , tires, gas, and so on.

In the case of CPUs, the possibilities to modify one of the 730millions set of transistor allow you an infinity combinaison of cheat that only the manufacturer can do, I did a demo to show this in the past.

Creating a contest with the 2 teams from Intel and AMD would give a chance to compete to 2 x 2 people. Nothing interesting... exactly when Renault was killing F1 in the 80s with Alain Prost ... or Ferrari in the 2000's ... make the race boring, you know who will win. Ross Braun team is demonstrating the perfect spirit right now in F1, new idea got him ahead, with smaller budget and no sponsor at the beginning. Because he is good, he got 1 sponsor, and kick the b.tt of Ferrari, Williams and all the big one ... F1 is interesting again because of this! they implemented rules recently to make sure that underdogs can have space to grow! you don t want an OC championchip that go the otherway around.

it is much more interesting and exciting when you see young kids coming and kicking the B.tt of the old timers Overclockers ... because they tried to understand the binning of the CPU, or they find out a little tricks! Who ever does its home work better should be able to win!

Francois

Rule 1 - no modding silicon unless it's available for sale to the public before the round starts.

As for where Formula 1 car racing has evolved... it took 30 years to become boring. Then they reacted and fixed it. I hope we can do the same.

Complaining about having the same winners all the time before we've even had one season sounds strange. If one team wins every round for season one... that would be interesting!

[dinos22]

Every competitor picked gets free CPUs from somewhere. That's F1 for you. But all have got to that point by progressing on the HWBot ranks. Long may this contiune.

lol thats news to me
goes to check my mailbox j/k

[The_Overclocker]

lol thats news to me
goes to check my mailbox j/k

OK - slight exageration. I hope Francois didn't mean Intel wouldn't send anyone anything? Just that it wasn't super cherry binned!

[hipro5]

....You're all against each other mate. That's all. Simple ......

Hmmm.......
Then WE team Hellas, will give HELL!....
You'll spit blood till BEGGING us to stop!......
You'll eat sand and you'll get our smoke.....!....

[lolhalol]

Hmmm.......
Then WE team Hellas, will give HELL!....
You'll spit blood till BEGGING us to stop!......
You'll eat sand and you'll get our smoke.....!....

hahahahahahha..

a warning shot has been fired. even before the comp starts.. haha..

[hipro5]

hahahahahahha..

a warning shot has been fired. even before the comp starts.. haha..

Opppssss........I've just remember some more.....

We'll put your head onto ground and crash it with our feet....
You'll eat our dust....
You'll need binoculars to see us ahead....

[Philly_Boy]

Hmmm.......
Then WE team Hellas, will give HELL!....
You'll spit blood till BEGGING us to stop!......
You'll eat sand and you'll get our smoke.....!....

You forgot one: