OPB cheated? News to me!
Oh wait, we knew he was a cheater for years LOL
OPB cheated? News to me!
Oh wait, we knew he was a cheater for years LOL
Phenom II 940 BE / ASUS M4A79 / HD5770 Crossfire
3770mhz CPU 2600mhz NB | DDR1040 5-5-5-15 | 900/1250
I feel similarly. I'm sad to see this as I know he is a very skilled bencher and am disappointed that he would cheat to get those last few points. I always liked how willing he was to share knowledge with others.Originally Posted by TheKarmakazi
I would have to agree with ShoNuff. Scores may have been faked, but the dude does have real knowledge and experience. Its a shame he would use cheating to get ahead when he has the connections to do it for real.
Dont misinterpret me either I think there should be no room for bending or breaking the rules, especially in this fashion.
Definitely deserves the punishment though, and he has posted on OCX how he feels similarly.
Sad news indeed, especially for the OCX guys who must feel very disappointed. Its a shame he was compelled to resort to this. Credit to him for admitting it.
you guys are saying "kudos to him for not lying about cheating" have seriously got to grow up.
he isnt the only well known scammer around this overclocking world. some of the most well known people who are working for some of the biggest names in the hardware business have been caught on several occassions cheating to make their companies hardware seem better than it was.
you have to remember a certain someone who was caught and later quietly admitted to using sub zero cooling on the northbridge of the board he was promoting so he could say he got some insane FSB clocks but conveniently failed to mention during his review of the mobo... i wont call him out but those people who remember dont need reminding.
cheating in privately ran non public competitions such as those put up for display by ORB and hwbot is wayyy too common and people just keep believing the results are real. orb and hwbot are in no way shape or form to blame they only post results, but if anyone there is found of knowingly allowing these results to be posted,,, well thats diff.
i bet OPB is just riddled with guilt,, oh yeah i just bet he is.. dont think for one fracking second that the kid gives a rats arse about being banned.
the frack in their right mind would give a crap? i mean seriously what kind of fvcked up retard would give a crap about being banned from a fracking web forum...
jesus,,, is this the form of punishment that is acceptable these days?
i guarentee his sponsors slapped his wrist and said, we told you to be careful and not be too obvious with the lies,,, atleast we got some good publicity and higher sales during that time. because that is ALL that mattered,, hardware sales
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The way to solve this problem...no more online submissions...just like any other league, sport, race, or competition, all participants show up to compete on the same playing field, in the same conditions. Then everyone throws down, and someone walks away a winner. How could you hold quakecon remotely and expect no one out there to use a bot..especially when $$$ are at stake, never mind recognition.
As long as people can hide behind the veil of accountability and anonymity in the online world...the worst in human nature will continue to rise to the forefront.
-cheating
-piracy
-trolling
-flaming
-harassment
-thievery
-sexual predators
-fraud
-invasion of privacy
-scams and manipulation
So get in on it while the gettings good!!!!
(and always view those screenies with a grain of salt)
For years I have purchased the highest end hardware availiable based on results from members on forums and review sites...although im not world class, Id like to think know how to go into the BIOS and flick a few switches and eek some more performance out of my system...Over the years, in the majority of cases my personal results on both AMD and Intel hardware have not reflected what I have seen others capable of doing online, or what review sited have posted while using the exact same setups in many cases.
Alot of this is due to hand picked samples, but I am sure every person in this forum has visited a thread with a fake screeny....whether they realize it or not. People are idiots, and alot of guys try to be something thery aren't when online cuz in the real world they just plain suck!
Its all about someone making a buck somewhere, and all you can do to help the situation is just post honest, concise, ACTUALLY STABLE results with your gear.
Perhaps XS should develop a set of requirement you must pass before a screenie can be posted or your thread will get deleted, or a downloadable/encrypted executable that can't be modified. You run it on your system and it posts you a thread automatically with the results.
I.e. 5 hrs linpack stable/3dmark looping or something hardcore like that.
That would seperate the men from the boys, and alot of the BS would dry up pretty quick...
Last edited by dsumanik; 06-15-2009 at 07:19 PM.
all executables can be modified because they run in memory. there is no way to stop people from cheating.
one thing we could do is require a valid name address and phone number for every member of XS.... but most people will say "no I want my privacy!!!" guess what, noone has privacy lol
You make a lot of points however.. who is going to pay for all this. Unfortunately we are scattered all across the world and in the limited amount of times someone is willing to pay to fly us all around the number of seats are limited. So therefore online submission and competition is required.
When benching if you required any sort of test like linpack for any period of time longer than ~10 minutes, you aren't going to have any serious benchers competing. Just look at Phenom II SPi 32M. All in all you might have a dozen serious attempts on LN2. Nobody wants to sit there burning LN2 for 15 minutes for a benchmark to complete.
Lastly, the moment the end-user is given your application you can no longer consider it secure. You can do your best to prevent tampering, but a person given infinite time will crack your system. So you depend on careful analysis of results and in our case a team dedicated to insuring things are correct.
What if the executable was randomized somehow and only valid for 6 hours or something, you gotta pass the test in a given time frame or you are pooched.
option B
Use VNC to allow a "referee" to administer the test on a user's system. the user tweaks the setup, requests verification, remote administrator executes.
Pretty easy to dial in on VNC, and download linx / CPU-Z and super Pi
If people are really that hardcore and want to prove validation...remote access for a few mins is no big deal. You could even have opposing teams administering the tests to thier competitors, ensuring no monkey business and encouraging the competition. Anyone hardcore tweaking won't be storing vital data on the test rig, and as far as security is concerned..just unplug your lan cable or kill the VNC client..no one gonna get hacked from this. How fun would it be to try and prove your worst enemy is full of BS.
Sign me up lol.
Last edited by dsumanik; 06-15-2009 at 08:02 PM.
lol who benchers with ethernet drivers or ethernet ports activated? You guys are killing me hereYour ideas are great in an attempt to secure benchmarks. Even benching in front of someone I could cheat. The best defense for this is what just happened, competitors becoming suspicious and investigating.
i used network drivers and lan is enabled
reading through this and the comments what it all comes down to is honor.
Either you have it or you don't.
As to OPB, I don't hate him, I pity him for feeliing that he had to stoop to cheating to maintain his 'name"..
Lestat had some very vaild points.
There is too much pressure to perform to maintain those sponsorships and he's right, it's all in the money.
The competition and how close it is among what? 200-300 of the top people involved in the sport makes it difficult for one person to stand out but some do.
I'm not getting into names as I'll miss some but you all know whose benches you trust and whose you do not.
As I said, it all comes down to honor.
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Come join us,get that warm fuzzy feeling that you've done something good for mankind.
noobi used network drivers and lan is enabled
I have been using them also but I am just trying to get started benching, I have been using full windows also...i used network drivers and lan is enabled
Fair enough, but at what point does benching switch from hardware tweaking/cooling prowess to driver optimization/software tweaks in order to gain the upper hand.
I guess it depends on what you see as the goal..if the highest score on a given bench is all you are after...then really, the compeition is all about cheating that benchmark, or at least bending the rules and software your system is running on in order to gain a few more points.
so in the end, why not just photoshop? Bending the rules, is bending the rules. Hacking the driver, trimming the fat off your system, modifying the OS, running the bench under multiple frequency profiles to allow it to make it through certain parts...in the end...Ask yourself whats more impressive...someone who cracks 6ghz stable or someone at 5.7 suicide scoring higher in 3dmark due to optimizations?
A solid hardware overclock is the most impressive, at least for me.
Proof the rig is up and stable at a given speed is what i see as the goal, but I understand others such as OPB and other pro benchers are more interested in the other side of things...and im sure to compete in this arena requires just as much skill, or perhaps combining them is even harder.
but for me, when I am stability testing.... the ethernet drivers better be working, and the sound drivers, and the video drivers and everything else the system needs to be up and running and fully functional...otherwise is it really actually stable?
Whats the use of a really, REALLY, REALLY fast computer you can't even check your email on?
Last edited by dsumanik; 06-15-2009 at 08:37 PM.
I think you miss the point of competitive benchmarking then. The goal isn't stability testing. We don't bench Prime 95 or Furmark. We don't care if the system will run 24/7 stable, hell most of us use cooling solutions that won't run for more than a few hours.
This is why I have an iPhone and laptop
This is the first time I have ever even considered quoting someone in my signature, but this one is totally worth it
I just got one question for ya
what the heck is this "stable" you speak of?
OPB has done some great testing, tearing through a lot of hardware and sharing a lot of interesting information. Are people thinking he phoshopped these results or what is the exact charge? I don't get it. I'm quite sure his legit scores would still kick the crap out of most guy's scores. It seems to not make sense that he would do that.
agreed, We just seeing two different sides to the coin.
Just so you know..im not photoshopping any screens I post, and my ethernet drivers are always enabled...I guess thats why im not winning any bench comps lol
I guess i havent been able to cross over to the dark side .......foregoing a functional rig just to use it for purely benching.....but i guess this is XS...omg maybe im in the wrong forum....I think I am having an identity crisis...the room is starting to spin...where am I... oh crap wheres my vicatin...
Last edited by dsumanik; 06-15-2009 at 08:59 PM.
And that is the question. Stable is different things to different people so there is no one catch all for everyone.I just got one question for ya
what the heck is this "stable" you speak of?
For me its my machines at 100% load 24/7 on WCG.
For another guy it's SP32m stable, or prime 85 stable for X hours..
Stable is what you want it to be for your uses.
Crunch with us, the XS WCG team
The XS WCG team needs your support.
A good project with good goals.
Come join us,get that warm fuzzy feeling that you've done something good for mankind.
the guy stumbled into the wrong forum me thinks
Well said.
Stable for me is stable as the system is at stock speed but even stock systems are unstable sometimes, so where can you draw the line.
I would say a good start is a minimum one hour linpack stable on the CPU, I can crank my i7 up to ~4.5 ghz and it will game just fine. As soon as I run linpack though blue screen....perhaps XS could develop some tiered regulations.
level one certified -1 hour lin pack
level two certified - 1 hour linpack + 3dmark looping
level three certified - 1 hour linpack + 3dmark looping +random/sequential read/write bench
I dunno someone else should make the rules up im just tossing ideas into the salad of life
Last edited by dsumanik; 06-15-2009 at 09:10 PM.
this isn't a charge, this isn't a thread discussing accusations. this is a thread reporting on a legitimate news story that HWBot posted and Kevin confirmed. please do not question the outcome, there is nothing to hide on this subject anymore. if you want to discuss this, contact Kevin directly, please don't start asking questions here. TIA
i don't quote in my signature, but best WR ever...i can't even make that shyt up ^^^
For me if a person is caught cheating, in this case several times, all his other scores are suspect and should be removed.
If a person is caught cheating and again in this case several times, how many other times has he cheated and has not been caught.
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