Nanofluid tested with three different temperatures on a Q6600

[gillbot]

who cuts steel with pure water?

Within every abrasive waterjet is a pure waterjet cutter, and you can switch from abrasive waterjet cutting to pure waterjet cutting in just two minutes.

The harder the material, the higher the pressure. The only limitation is the pressure of the machine. Regardless of what you are cutting, i'm sure MOST of the materials are "softer" than water, even if it's only plastic. Brinell hardness is completely irrelevant.

[fart_plume]

I honestly never thought of it because I had thought that the pumps were all sealed bearings. But, when you mentioned ceramic bearings and water being used as a lubricant I thought about the pump manufacture that is making that set-up must have taken into consideration metal particles in the water; due to tightening of fittings, micro shavings from the block that weren't cleaned out..etc etc..and, for people that just use tap water in their system, eating up the bearings. They would have had to think of a way to get past that. One easy one would be to make the bearing harder than typical metals. That is why I thought that the ceramic bearings are probably harder than the metal. But, again, I will look into that some more.

Typically water pumps that use a ceramic bearing are the type that self polish,(because the impeller shaft has a matching bearing surface). Introducing a forien object in to this surface can scar it. depending on the clearances of the bearings and the shape of the object, the shape affects the scarring as much as hardness does. ie a soft steel shaving in an automatic transmission can do damage to the hardened bearing surfaces.

who cuts steel with pure water?

Well steel shim stock can be cut with just water, but as you said why when there are better methods..............

[relttem]

The harder the material, the higher the pressure. The only limitation is the pressure of the machine. Regardless of what you are cutting, i'm sure MOST of the materials are "softer" than water, even if it's only plastic. Brinell hardness is completely irrelevant.

you do have a limit to what pressure you can achieve. Now I am curious as to how much pressure you would need to cut thru a .25" steel plate. I will calculate that out tomorrow. Believe it or not, it will be a function of density..how about that?

[Eternalightwith]

Why is this even an issue, unless you're planning to sell the fluid outside computer cooling. The turbulence of the fluid through the pump and tubes is plenty enough to keep the particles suspended indefinitely.
If computer off for 6 months, no problem, them selttling will go away as soon as you introduce turbulence with the startup of the pump.

David

That was a surfactant problem, which we are working on now. The surfactant, for those that don't know, is going to keep the nanoparticles separated in the fluid. If they agglomerate, which I have mentioned earlier as a problem, you have what is called "stokes settling", and this gets worse as more agglomeration occurs. The rate of agglomeration occurring is going to be a function of the available surface area. So, basically, the surface area doubles when two particles stick together and increases as more stick..that gives more mass, which is going to cause the particles to settle faster. But, we are definitely working on that because that, to us, is the most important thing.

[HESmelaugh]

First of all: Sorry I haven't checked in here lately. I hadn't noticed that this thread had become active again.

While I can't answer the technical side of most of the questions asked (I don't have any insider-knowledge on the Nanofluid) I can announce that I'm planning on doing a long-term test with the Nanofluid. I will use it in my productive system which runs about 18 hours a day. Maybe that will help answer some questions about long-term effects.

[relttem]

Why is this even an issue, unless you're planning to sell the fluid outside computer cooling. The turbulence of the fluid through the pump and tubes is plenty enough to keep the particles suspended indefinitely.
If computer off for 6 months, no problem, them selttling will go away as soon as you introduce turbulence with the startup of the pump.

David

We have noticed this being a problem only with certain pump set-ups. After Skinnee told me about it, I checked my WC system and had some residue in it. Yes, the flow thru the block and tubes does keep it mixed well, but when it is in the reservoir - not so much. My pump intake is on the side of the reservoir, therefore I have a dead zone beneath the intake port. We have reservoirs that have the intake at the bottom that will not see this happen, because there is no dead zone. If that makes sense.
I believe HESmelaugh's set-up has a bottom intake. If you look at the pictures of his set-up you can see that. I am not sure what kind Skinnee had. Also, I have had the nanofluid running in my WC system since June, 2008.

[[XC] riptide]

Brinell hardness has zero to do with wear. If you can cut steel with pure water, which i'm positive water "softer" than steel, what the hell does brinell hardness have to do with anything?

Because Brinell scale measurement measures the indentation ability of a material. The virtual hardness of water is massively increased in cutting machines in jets.

[Lagaaja]

I'd rather use this than some white tubing as there's always certain advantages when you can actually see the coolant.

Nice testing, but I'd also like to see some passive rad tests

[Aberration]

I really don't have an answer for the 3M question. I don't think 3M really does any sort of cooling stuff. DowTherm does, but their niche is not electronic cooling. Also, this nanofluid stuff is new technology, maybe they just haven't gotten around to it yet. We were lucky that we had the Air Force to sponsor us.
I appreciate all the questions and comments - it keeps us honest.

3M makes FlourInert and HydroFlouroEther. Both are completely non-conductive. And used to directly cool electronic components and motors.

Both do not cool as well as water, but are a necessity in some applications. But then again in those applications you can use a refrigeration system and a heat exchanger.

Speaking of which, my AC guy should be here soon to fix my refrigerator for just that application.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert

[NaeKuh]

3M makes almost everything.

[relttem]

I'd rather use this than some white tubing as there's always certain advantages when you can actually see the coolant.

Nice testing, but I'd also like to see some passive rad tests

We've been trying to get some passive radiator testing done. But, we need a radiator that has fins that run up and down as opposed to left and right. When we find one of those we will give it a go.

Thanks for the info on 3M - I had no idea.

[saxile]

We've been trying to get some passive radiator testing done. But, we need a radiator that has fins that run up and down as opposed to left and right. When we find one of those we will give it a go.

Now you ask for one... just threw away one about 4 days ago that would have been perfect for what you wanted (already had it modded for pc use too).

[Sadasius]

We've been trying to get some passive radiator testing done. But, we need a radiator that has fins that run up and down as opposed to left and right. When we find one of those we will give it a go.

Just turn the rad around.... Yeah I know I am a smartass!

[relttem]

Just turn the rad around.... Yeah I know I am a smartass!

actually, well...I will let you figure that one out..

[HESmelaugh]

I have an update on the subject of Nanofluid. I got a new sample (new formula) of the fluid for testing.
I decided to do a very down-to-earth practical test of the fluid this time. I used it in my business PC, equipped for this purpose with a GTX 285, so that it produces a bit more heat.

Here are the components making up the loop:
- XSPC X2O 450 pump
- Watercool 360 radiator
- D-Tek Fuzion V2 (on a Q6600 @ 2.7 GHz, 1.3 V)
- EK FC-285 GTX (on a PNY GTX 285 @ stock)
- 1/2" tubing
- Some thermal probes

As you can see, the loop has a relatively underpowered pump (nice and quiet, though =) ) and a radiator that is actually a bit too small for the CPU and such a powerful GPU.

For the test, I first ran the loop with distilled water. I ran Prime95 (small FFT) and Furmark for 45 Minutes and measured the temperatures. Then, I changed to Nanofluid in the loop, did the same test and measured temperatures again. Here are the results, shown in temperature-differences between component and fluid temperatures.



As you can see, the Nanofluid does make a measurable difference, here. I must add that the error margin for this test is expected to be higher than for the tests I run on my test-bench, since I don't have the same, precise measuring tools in my working PC. The results still show a positive trend, though.

I am now running my PC with the Nanofluid and intend to keep it like this for at least a few months. Then, I'll take the loop apart to see if there are any long-term impacts from using the Nanofluid.

[d50man]

how does this fluid get along with a d5 mag drive pump(mcp655)?
i think this might help in a matx corei7 box i'm working on.

[relttem]

When we did the original research we found no damage to any of equipment. We had different concentrations of different types of nanoparticles slamming into a painted copper paint at some very high velocities with no paint peeling etc. Earlier Skinnee had reported about some staining..we only had that problem with the copper nanofluid, but that was due to the surfactant. We have been working on that, and I asked both Skinnee and HESmelaugh to look into that.
There shouldn't be any adverse effects to a pump.

thanks, HESmelaugh

[HESmelaugh]

Here are the old results and new results side by side, for anyone wanting to compare:

(old test):


(new test):



I made a few quick pics of the current loop with the Nanofluid:

[NovoRei]

Thinking on the cooling side, wouldnt a liquid with higher density and low viscosity, lower freezing point be better? Btw, whats the freezing point?

[relttem]

higher density is tougher on the pump. The freezing point of the nanofluid is almost the same as water.

[pwolfe]

I cannot wait for you guys to bring this to market, any more word on that?

[relttem]

we are still really close. Skinnee is still working on his review, and HESmelaugh is as well. So, we will wait to see what they have to say. Soon. I promise you all will be the first to know tho.

[railmeat]

*****im not bashing please understand as im ALWAYS looking for something better for my water setup and price does not matter.but what does this stuff bring to the table for watercooling guys?****



staining/buildup-
skinne-post #127

"The only major difference between distilled and nanofluid was the residue and build-up throughout the loop. Every component in the loop had residue or build-up from the nanofluid, including the funnel I used for filling."

so admitting already this stuff builds up and stains....ugh.not go0d at all.i went with fesser one pure water to not have stained tubes anymore.3 months later there still sparkling clear.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
performance- ?


Let's have a look how the Nanofluid affects the CPU-Temperature:


Here, we see the same effect: At lower temperatures, the Nanofluid doesn't do any better than distilled water, but at higher temperatures, we see a clear advantage of the Nanofluid.


your kidding right?clear advantage??? 40.5 - 38.9 = 1.6 diff...sorry but thats not clear advantage on this planet.on the subject of clear.i retubed my loop 3-4x now over the years because of special space age fluids etc and they ALL stain tubing.fog,haze,bleh.this milk stuff after after few months will look HORRIBLE,TRUST ME.fesser aqua pure water after 3months months,tubes look brand new and temps are awesome...pass on the milk.i would ONLY consider this stuff if proven 0 staining which skinne already admitted in post #127 "Every component in the loop had residue or build-up from the nanofluid" 1-2 degres at best and stains tubes?...




-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

heres your other tests i was staring at....




cpu results

18.3 -17.6 = 0.7 .....umm? not even 1 degree diff,im sticking with stainfree fesser water here.



gpu results

20.5 -19.8 = 0.7 again not even 1 degree diff....?





ok this test....nobody uses 1 fan rads here.2 min so im looking at the 2 fan rad setup test u did..

9.0 -8.9 = 0.1 !!?!?!? ummm why on earth would i(or anyone)switch to this.its def not for performance.to have white fluid that will stain my tubing in a few months?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

im not bashing please understand as im ALWAYS looking for something better for my water setup and price does not matter.but what does this stuff bring to the table for watercooling guys?

[relttem]

.7 is actually pretty good if you crunch through the equations.. I already covered that tho. I only use one fan too..nice and quiet

[HESmelaugh]

Performance: "Clear advantage" is meant literally. It is clearly measurable that there is an advantage. I'm observing this, not passing judgement. You see a lot of people choosing one waterblock over another because of performance, yet the blocks are mostly very, very close in performance. Also, many people optimize their loops for higher flowrates even though more flow will net you only fractions of degrees in better temperatures after a certain point. In this context, I can imagine that 0.7° is an advantage worth having for some people. Ultimately, that's up to each individual to decide.

Residue: The current sample is a new one and I'm doing a long term test. So just sit back and wait. We'll see if the residue problem is still present. I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying we don't know yet.

Why would anyone use it? In my experience, because it looks awesome. I've gotten dozens of e-Mails and PM's since I published the first review, asking about the Nanofluid. Of everyone who wrote, I think no one cared about the performance. They all just wanted cool looking white stuff in their loop.
This is also what I personally like about the NF most (as I stated in the original review).