Deneb vs Agena..feel Free to "speculate"

[Blaber]

High-k is planned for H2/09, i.e. for the Istanbul 6 core chip. AMD stated this on one of the last press conferences.

cheers

Opteron146

AMD K10.5 Hydra to challenge Nehalem

To have 1MB L2 per core

After Deneb and Propus 45nm K10.5 Quad-cores AMD plans to change the process and improve the existing K10.5 cores. The new process is called 45nm K10.5 Rev. D and it will bring high K to 45nm SOI cores. K10.5 Rev. C is the 45nm SOI process that AMD plans to use for Deneb and Propus 45nm cores. AMD calls Rev D cores Hydra and these are the chips that will really go against Nehalem.

The test production of these rather interesting cores will start in Q1 2009, but we expect to see the production cores by the middle of 2009 or a bit later.

The new K10.5 Rev. D supports 1MB L2 per core, which is twice as much as in current K10 CPUs and 6MB L3 cache memory. The most important feature is that it will be able to get you eight cores and we believe this is eight-core native design and not MCM (Multi Chip Module), as many have suggested before. This confirms our earlier story that AMD’s eight cores are native and you can read it here.

The new chip should be able to hit clocks in excess of 3GHz but we will hold our breath until we see it. This does look positive for AMD, but it still means that Nehalem will probably be the market leader for at least six to nine months before it gets a real competitor.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...=7197&Itemid=1

[EvilBlitz]

The funny thing is, AMD is shipping shanghai right now. Im suprised some really wealthy person or site hasn't just gone out and benched some stuff, im sure some things scale a certain way or are clock limited so they could still test quite a few things that would be the same or very similar to deneb.

[EvilBlitz]

8 cores with 1MB l2 and 3ghz @ 45nm? No way. 32nm maybe, not 45nm. Way too big, it would be a mammoth die, and AMD has never been very good at making large monolithic dies.

[Rammsteiner]

8 cores with 1MB l2 and 3ghz @ 45nm? No way. 32nm maybe, not 45nm. Way too big, it would be a mammoth die, and AMD has never been very good at making large monolithic dies.

But skt F is bigger than AM2(+) right? So they do have a bit more space to play with in that case

[Macadamia]

8 cores with 1MB l2 and 3ghz @ 45nm? No way. 32nm maybe, not 45nm. Way too big, it would be a mammoth die, and AMD has never been very good at making large monolithic dies.

It's an MCM of Shanghai, FUD was wrong. 8 cores, 0.5*8MB L2, 12MB L3, using HTT links to communicate.

But skt F is bigger than AM2(+) right? So they do have a bit more space to play with in that case

All the newer MCM stuff will use Socket G, which is rectangular and huge.

[Rammsteiner]

It's an MCM of Shanghai, FUD was wrong. 8 cores, 0.5*8MB L2, 12MB L3, using HTT links to communicate.



All the newer MCM stuff will use Socket G, which is rectangular and huge.

skt F, skt G... wtf

[informal]

SocketG is 6 and 12 core ready.It's rectangular and quite big .Ready for Bulldozer too .

[Particle]

But skt F is bigger than AM2(+) right? So they do have a bit more space to play with in that case

That isn't the issue. The problem is that on any given wafer of silicon, there will be some random defects. The more defects there are the more cores will be bad. The fewer chips you get out of one wafer, the more silicon you waste from a single defect. If you were to develop a core that is as big as a wafer, you'd get a 0% yield. There's plenty of space in the CPU package for a large die. It just isn't a good idea since larger dies generally equate to more waste. That will drive up per-unit costs beyond where you'd expect it to linearly be judging from area.

[demonkevy666]

That isn't the issue. The problem is that on any given wafer of silicon, there will be some random defects. The more defects there are the more cores will be bad. The fewer chips you get out of one wafer, the more silicon you waste from a single defect. If you were to develop a core that is as big as a wafer, you'd get a 0% yield. There's plenty of space in the CPU package for a large die. It just isn't a good idea since larger dies generally equate to more waste. That will drive up per-unit costs beyond where you'd expect it to linearly be judging from area.

like nvidia's G200 chip big huge die, not many on the wafer.

Rv770 no sure how many's on a wafer but I know it's above 100.

[Opteron146]

AMD K10.5 Hydra to challenge Nehalem



http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?op...=7197&Itemid=1

I dont believe this fuad story, cause the 1MB L2 Quad Core got deleted on the AMD Roadmap after AMD switched to the 6 Cores.
Its old code name was "Montreal". Furthermore Fuad sometimes writes really lots of trash ..

Besides that Spec Numbers for dual / octo Shanghais are out:

2384:
http://spec.org/cpu2006/results/res2...024-05683.html
http://spec.org/cpu2006/results/res2...024-05684.html

8384:
http://spec.org/cpu2006/results/res2...024-05685.html
http://spec.org/cpu2006/results/res2...024-05686.html

cheers

Opteron146

[roofsniper]

i don't believe fud period. they are just posting things over and over. most of the time they take both sides deneb sucks, deneb is good. i bet if someone tested the accuracy of their articles it would be below 25%. i don't even care about news anymore theres nothing else to say except for performance results and with shanghai coming out and deneb coming out soon that could be coming in. but really why does it matter? everyone is gonna get deneb because we all know how great it is going to be.

[bacon612]

everyone is gonna get deneb because we all know how great it is going to be.

Will we though? I have been an AMD fanboy since the days of k6II. I am now wanting/needing to upgrade but am waiting for fresh benchies and pricing of Deneb. If it fails to impress (which has quite honestly been the AMD trend lately) i will do the logical thing swallow my pride and get the base nehalem offering since I am already needing a new board, ram and cpu.

For the sake of a competitive market, i hope we get pleasantly surprised here. But personally, i am not expecting anything spectacular.

[roofsniper]

Will we though? I have been an AMD fanboy since the days of k6II. I am now wanting/needing to upgrade but am waiting for fresh benchies and pricing of Deneb. If it fails to impress (which has quite honestly been the AMD trend lately) i will do the logical thing swallow my pride and get the base nehalem offering since I am already needing a new board, ram and cpu.

For the sake of a competitive market, i hope we get pleasantly surprised here. But personally, i am not expecting anything spectacular.

get the 3.0. go big or go home . also i saw this today: http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/081112/business_us_intel.html intel just letting everyone know that they are going to be making less money this quarter. they blame it on the economy but i think theres a little something else to it as well.

[Chad Boga]

get the 3.0. go big or go home . also i saw this today: http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/081112/business_us_intel.html intel just letting everyone know that they are going to be making less money this quarter. they blame it on the economy but i think theres a little something else to it as well.

Such as?

[bacon612]

get the 3.0. go big or go home .

True, but price is still a concern for me. Im pretty sure that the 920 nehalem will sell for around $300 and it appears to o/c nicely from what ive read so far. Hardocp took it to 4ghz on stock cooling with ease. I just keep thinking to myself that deneb will be priced around that same $300 price point. So, for me, the decision will be made on the initial deneb benchmarks and how well it will clock. Sure DDR2 is cheaper and the AM2+ boards are cheaper but this is already older gen tech as DDR3 is here and AM3 is right around the corner.

I personally cant believe i am thinking about an Intel build but it seems like a no contest decision to me. What would you guys do?

[Sparky]

Such as?

Maybe they are expecting more competition from AMD perhaps.

Surely you knew the answer to your question already

[m411b]

get the 3.0. go big or go home . also i saw this today: http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/081112/business_us_intel.html intel just letting everyone know that they are going to be making less money this quarter. they blame it on the economy but i think theres a little something else to it as well.

I'm thinking that might have something to do with Shanghai as well as the price differences between AMD and Intel.
Which says a lot about how many folks are buying AMD.

[roofsniper]

Such as?

its pretty obvious that amd will be hurting intel's sales this quarter even if shanghai/deneb is a flop. with new parts theres always more sales. 9950 comes out and everyone buys it when the 9850 is pretty much the same and when overclocking they are both equal.

I personally cant believe i am thinking about an Intel build but it seems like a no contest decision to me. What would you guys do?

i would still get amd even if intel was better but theres nothing to say about that now because theres no comparison between nehalem and shanghai yet. but really the choice is obvious for me because i get amd cpus for free anyway.

[Chad Boga]

its pretty obvious that amd will be hurting intel's sales this quarter even if shanghai/deneb is a flop. with new parts theres always more sales.

So you don't think Nehalem's release will offset that?

[accord99]

its pretty obvious that amd will be hurting intel's sales this quarter even if shanghai/deneb is a flop.

It's pretty obvious that it has nothing to do with AMD, whose share price tanked alongside Intel, and more to do with the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. Even a few % cut out of Intel would mean AMD might actually make money.

[roofsniper]

So you don't think Nehalem's release will offset that?

nehalem is only coming out for desktop while deneb/shanghai is coming out for both server and desktop. so maybe it will offset it on the desktop side but not the server side.

[informal]

So you don't think Nehalem's release will offset that?

Just to remind you the title is "Deneb vs Agena...feel Free to speculate" .You are flaimbaiting people into intel vs AMD argument yet again.The thread is about Deneb versus Agena,period.
Need i remind you you were already removed from one AMD thread couple of days ago?Should the history repeat itself?

[roofsniper]

It's pretty obvious that it has nothing to do with AMD, whose share price tanked alongside Intel. Even a few % cut out of Intel would mean AMD might actually make money.

amd stock droped by 13% today while intel only dropped by like 4% i believe and they were the ones that made the announcement.

[m411b]

nehalem is only coming out for desktop while deneb/shanghai is coming out for both server and desktop. so maybe it will offset it on the desktop side but not the server side.

I'm pretty sure that AMD has ruled the server side pretty much the whole time anyways, right?

Just to remind you the title is "Deneb vs Agena...feel Free to speculate" .You are flaimbaiting people into intel vs AMD argument yet again.The thread is about Deneb versus Agena,period.
Need i remind you you were already removed from one AMD thread couple of days ago?Should the history repeat itself?

I was thinking the same thing but wasn't gonna say it!

[roofsniper]

I'm pretty sure that AMD has ruled the server side pretty much the whole time anyways, right?

they have performance wise i don't know how big of a market share they have compared to intel tho. just the release of shanghai should defenantly get some sales going there and intel can't do anything to beef up their sales xcept for drop prices.

lol anyone got any more speculation? there really isn't much to say.