Deneb vs Agena..feel Free to "speculate"

[RiverRicer]

Found this thread in the News section........early benchies of Shanghai with comparison to Barcelona and Zeon......

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=207460

It shows some good gains in server apps as well as significant reduction in power use.

[Chad Boga]

Just to remind you the title is "Deneb vs Agena...feel Free to speculate" .You are flaimbaiting people into intel vs AMD argument yet again.The thread is about Deneb versus Agena,period.
Need i remind you you were already removed from one AMD thread couple of days ago?Should the history repeat itself?

When another poster raises the prospect of Intel being affected by AMD, and I pose a simply question that only a moron could interpret as flamebait, then I invite you to bring this to the attention of any and all moderators on this board.

[Chad Boga]

I'm pretty sure that AMD has ruled the server side pretty much the whole time anyways, right?

Has this been reflected in marketshare?

[Apokalipse]

So you don't think Nehalem's release will offset that?

Not if people won't buy it due to price.

[Gener_AL (UK)]

Has this been reflected in marketshare?

Yes the last 12 months have been pretty bad serverside if thats what you mean about AMD. They did lose marketshare.
The last few months it does seems as AMD has picked back small amount percentage.
But at least to upgrade on the AMD platform its more or less a bios update.
Not a full platform upgrade.
I can see Shanghai making Inroads to reduce the Bensley platform damage.

Now can you keep on topic please!

[m411b]

Not if people won't buy it due to price.

And with the AM2+ boards now being compatible with AM3 chips, there no need for a complete upgrade, and with no need for all the bandwidth that DDR3 has, theres no real need for DDR3 either right now. So, my "speculation" is that a lot of intel guys are gonna like what they see with Deneb and drop Intel due to the price savings of having to buy a complete new platform.
Even if they dont have any AM2+ boards laying around, they could still buy AMD stuff a lot cheaper. IMO I think that in itself will effect Intel!

[Chad Boga]

Not if people won't buy it due to price.

Aussie pricing is a bit crazy at the moment due to the weak dollar and probably because we will be a month or so behind the USA in getting enough supplies, so I expect pricing to improve significantly in the weeks ahead.

Have AMD flagged what they are going to be charging for Deneb?

I know you won't need a new platform for it which will increase it's appeal amongst existing Phenom users.

[Gener_AL (UK)]

Aussie pricing is a bit crazy at the moment due to the weak dollar and probably because we will be a month or so behind the USA in getting enough supplies, so I expect pricing to improve significantly in the weeks ahead.

But the the price of a top end X58 (not including CPU)
You can buy today a Phenom + 790FX + Ram

Have AMD flagged what they are going to be charging for Deneb?

It will scale with current pricing im pretty sure about that and be very competative. As we have seen with Shanghai and in the past.

I know you won't need a new platform for it which will increase it's appeal amongst existing Phenom users.

Dont forget the X2 guys too.

[Apokalipse]

And with the AM2+ boards now being compatible with AM3 chips, there no need for a complete upgrade, and with no need for all the bandwidth that DDR3 has, theres no real need for DDR3 either right now. So, my "speculation" is that a lot of intel guys are gonna like what they see with Deneb and drop Intel due to the price savings of having to buy a complete new platform.
Even if they dont have any AM2+ boards laying around, they could still buy AMD stuff a lot cheaper. IMO I think that in itself will effect Intel!

Reminds me of the Athlon XP, vs Pentium 4's using RDRAM

[Chad Boga]

But the the price of a top end X58 (not including CPU)
You can buy today a Phenom + 790FX + Ram

I agree that the platform cost for i7 is quite poor value unless you are some kind of crazy cruncher, so Intel will still be relying on Penryn to take on Phenom/Deneb for some time yet.

It will scale with current pricing im pretty sure about that and be very competative. As we have seen with Shanghai and in the past.

This is a laughable source I know, so please forgive me, but one of the crazies on AMDZone said that a distributor had told him that Deneb will come with a significant price increase over Phenom.

I guess we will know soon enough.

[Gener_AL (UK)]

This is a laughable source I know, so please forgive me, but one of the crazies on AMDZone said that a distributor had told him that Deneb will come with a significant price increase over Phenom.

I guess we will know soon enough.

I have no doubt that a higher frequency CPU will be more expensive , but i really cannot forsee AMD pricing themselves out of the market.

[Sparky]

This is a laughable source I know, so please forgive me, but one of the crazies on AMDZone said that a distributor had told him that Deneb will come with a significant price increase over Phenom.

I guess we will know soon enough.

How true. Will be interesting to see what happens. I would imagine that the new chip would be more than the current ones - typical of new hardware releases anyway - but by how much remains to be seen. A lot of speculation at this point but then that's the point of this thread aye?

[roofsniper]

ehhhhh im guessing just about 200-230. not much more but a little. if they can price it right they will dominate for a few months.

[Gener_AL (UK)]

Talking about price/cost. Strangely enough the 9850 and 9950 have been increasing in price the last month or so around resellers in the UK.

I would put a limit of around £175 /£150 for the Phenom X4 20550 3GHz and 20350 2.8GHz ,at retail level (and with prelaunch/order prices boosted another 15%) , with prices falling to around £150 £130. Thats my Guesstimate.
Too conservative ? Too Expensive ? Hard to predict how Intel will counter at the moment with bloomfield sprouting.

[demonkevy666]

it's said to be $300 (slightly less then 50% more)

the 9850 came out a $235 and came down fast can now be had for less then $190.

still would like deneb to be 1-2% fast then penryn.

[Aussie FX]

This is a laughable source I know, so please forgive me, but one of the crazies on AMDZone said that a distributor had told him that Deneb will come with a significant price increase over Phenom.

I guess we will know soon enough.

What's so laughable about it Chad?

That source is me. Here is the the email that I was sent as proof.

Not sure if anyone got back to you on this mate as I was out of the office. Our rep has said mid-January for them. Prices are expected to be much higher than the 9950.



Regards,

I then replied to him that Deneb is expected before the end of the year and got this reply.
Came from our AMD rep itself mate.

Now Chad I gave you a chance in the other thread that Fugger himself had to come and ban you from, then you go behind my back and start posting moronic crap like this
What's your problem little boy...?

[Chad Boga]

What's so laughable about it Chad?

AMDZone is about 98% insane rants against Intel, and 2% general stupidity, so it only makes sense to qualify using anything from there as a source.

then you go behind my back and start posting moronic crap like this
What's your problem little boy...?

What a perverse interpretation of events.

[roofsniper]

AMDZone is about 98% insane rants against Intel, and 2% general stupidity, so it only makes sense to qualify using anything from there as a source.

1. a. Flame Recruitment.
Posting a link to another website or forum with the intent of gathering XS members to participate in flaming, bashing, or any other form of attacking someone or something on the other site is forbidden. Furthermore, participating in cross-forum flaming will be handled as if the flaming were on XS itself.

we understand about amdzone already.

[charged3800z24]

Well, I forget which post was about market share.. but I know personally, that when it comes to company's like mine, AMD has a hard time getting one of there product sold. The owner and brother of the company will not let AMD be sold to our clients due to an instruction set that was not available back in very early AMD chips, and there for they were unable to run a propriatary (how ever you spell that) software on the systems they sold. I had a hard time a couple years ago getting them to put dual core opterons in for some workstations when AMD had the upper hand. It is hard to gain market share when you are not being used. Intel was still selling tons of there notcompetive chips, while AMD was better and still trying to get partners. Then Conroe hit, and bam...AMD knocked down. They still hold a strong performance in the multi socket server space..but that isn't enough. The desktop side..well let's face it, AMD is behind. Although I feel that overall, the Phenoms are faster clock for clock then the k8's. Intel just has a better desktop chip out. Now Deneb, should be better then Agena..and if people are buying Agena...they will also get deneb since it will obviosly have less power draw and more cache and other things.

On that note: I wonder if the NDA will be lifted after tomorrow, since it is supose to be the official launch on Shanghai. SO in theory, since shanghai is basically deneb, we can get a idea of how it will perform..therefore no longer will the secret of 45nm be able to be kept....

To I type to much..

[Macadamia]

What's so laughable about it Chad?

That source is me. Here is the the email that I was sent as proof.

Not sure if anyone got back to you on this mate as I was out of the office. Our rep has said mid-January for them. Prices are expected to be much higher than the 9950.



Regards,

I then replied to him that Deneb is expected before the end of the year and got this reply.
Came from our AMD rep itself mate.

Now Chad I gave you a chance in the other thread that Fugger himself had to come and ban you from, then you go behind my back and start posting moronic crap like this
What's your problem little boy...?

You should look at the numerous troll accounts he made- until I think somebody put an IP ban in place.

[Aussie FX]

Post removed. - pointless

[Aussie FX]

You should look at the numerous troll accounts he made- until I think somebody put an IP ban in place.

Haha, evey site needs a Ghost.

So our Chad Boga would be "someguy" and "mundus" would he?

Who said that we don't need capital punishment?

[EvilBlitz]

roofsniper, Nehalem IS coming out for server chips, 2nd Half of 09. With intel, and considering Nehalem is already shipping for desktop, that will mean early 2nd half, and they could easily pull it in if Shanghai is quite good.
AMD has about 2quarters advantage in the server market before they will face some extremely stiff competition(not that Intel is already the better choice in most regards for 1P and 2P servers, AMD still wins 4P though)

Also, of course Deneb/Shanghai will be more expensive than the older ones. Why they hell would they sell it cheaper than their older slower CPUs? That would completely osbourne massive amounts of stock and be an extemely stupid move.

As for pricing....
669 for top end X58 mobo here(450 for cheapest), and top end FX board is 393 , 9950 here is 381. So while the Corei7 is much more expensive it isnt even close to being a X58 board = 790FX+CPU+Ram.
Remember prices vary dramatically across countries depending on cross currency conversions and which cpu/gfx/mobo maker dominates a local market. Eg Nvidia is always way cheaper in NZ. The ATI cards just don't get the volume to compete on price or be cheaper than the equivalent Nvidia card like in the US.

Personally while I think Chad also has been a little harsh sometimes, some of you have also been just as immature. People could be much more polite and nicer here. I also only buy AMD ever, so don't think im some intel bigot.

[Aussie FX]

On that note: I wonder if the NDA will be lifted after tomorrow, since it is supose to be the official launch on Shanghai. SO in theory, since shanghai is basically deneb, we can get a idea of how it will perform..therefore no longer will the secret of 45nm be able to be kept....

To I type to much..

Back on topic.
I thought the NDA was lifted today, hence we are seeing some Spec benchmarks that Informal put up. They are showing some nice gains.

Some single socket stuff would be nice.

[roofsniper]

The desktop side..well let's face it, AMD is behind.

WHAT?
lol i don't even know who is better on the desktop side. i will always have amd no matter who is leading so i like to think amd is better.