Deneb vs Agena..feel Free to "speculate"

[charged3800z24]

here is a PDf of 45nm...the do mention of High-k down the road, and I believe it might be on 45nm AM3..which might be why the FX might be back...any thoughts..

[demonkevy666]

hhhhmmm let see all of deneb's new features

1. HT3.1 3200mhz (like Icore7 i 3200mhz too) helps memopery mostly, maybe a little with GPU.

2. L3 cache speed is linked to HT speed(aka HT can't be higher then NB) (1 and 2 is more for overclocking)

3. agena had 32way L3 cache and deneb will have 48 way (maybe we can get revision with 64 way please wishful thinking lol)

4. deneb 15% faster at same speeds as agena this means nb/L3 cache speeds may have been the same. increasing the nb/L3cache speed helps as much as 2-5%.

5. clocking is better due to removed resistor in the cache. (no idea why that was in there in the first place maybe an engineer over looked it)

6 K10 was already 15% faster then K8. which AMD stated it would be

7. NO TLB buggs actually if you look even intel had one of them too.

8 Penryn was IPC boost and shrink too, it wans't 15% it was only 5-10% and had more cache dual 6mb vs 4mb and Quad 12mb vs 8mb. that's only 25% more cache and came out to be and average 5-7% faster and like maybe 7% less watts.

9. That IPC is L2 cache for penryn to conroe (16 way for conroe and 24 way for penryn) L3 is whole different story on phenom. When you consider phenom is only 15%(rarely is that high it's more 5-7%) with 50% less cache.

10. given all details including the SuperPI score have we needed a 4.0ghz 65nm AGENA beat a 3.2ghz DENEB

11. so yeah it can beat york field in my opinion by at lest 2-5%

12. I can not see why people are comparing Deneb to nehalem. I see it more of a conroe vs york field not nehalem (AGENA v DENEB)

13. the architecture is basically still K10. not all new like Icore7 nehalem is.

( last few are a couple things Iv'e been reading around here)

14. I still think AMD motherboards are getting the screw job in the Power phase area (where our digital PWM ? )

15. Icore7 is looking Hotter then R600, phenom may have been hot but no that hot.

16. at least where not in a TDP OC with phenom.

[roofsniper]

wow demon save some of the "speculating" for others. you just about hit everything. and #15 on ur list about the nehalem temperatures, yea that just confuses me. i believe their tdp is DOUBLE of what shanghai's is.

wonder what the prices of the fx chips are gonna be next year. most likely $1000+

[Caveman787]

I wonder what the comparison of actual draw numbers will be.

I agree he covered most everything...and his point's all point to deneb being a very big improvement over agena.

The biggest reason will be the fact it will overclock to q6600's 3.6 level's without tdp going crazy like on nehalem.

This combined with the ipc of 15-20% that's been quoted many lead deneb to be a winner....specially for the non rich gamer crowd.

Down with DDR3

[Extelleron]

I'm going to guess that Deneb is going to be around 10% faster overall, with anywhere from 0-15% improvement depending on the application.

I'm guessing pricing will be a bit higher than current Phenoms but not much; the 20550 @ 3.0GHz will likely come in a bit lower than the Q9550, so under $300.

For overclocking I am thinking 3.6-3.8GHz stable on SB750 mobos with the launch revision. Maybe 4GHz possible with a future revision in 2009.

[tvdang7]

so is deneb going to be as fast or slightly faster than the first gen c2d (conroe)?

[Jazzman]

My speculation is that Deneb will not at first have an unlocked multiplier. We will only be able to overclock HTT. The clocks will "only" be 3.4 to 3.6.

AMD will realize that they need a BE version and it will be released in late January. Clocks will hit 3.8 to 4.0.

In late June, an FX version will come out with High-K metal gates. Overclocks will hit 4.4 - 4.6. The FX chip will run a lot cooler and take a ton of voltage. Most of us will kill our AM2+ boards by blowing numerous mosfets and will have to buy AM3 mobo versions, probably DFI because of their digital power handling.

Nehalem buyers will have remorse when they discover that even slight overclocks result in between 80C and 100C temps. We will see a huge migration of upset Intel customers to AMD Deneb.

[Glow9]

My speculation is that Deneb will be a nice little bump in improvement for anyone with supporting AM2+ boards. Nothing over the top amazing but a nice upgrade prolly at a decent price. AM3 on the other hand they can start fresh I think will be interesting or else they are going to be in trouble.

[YukonTrooper]

12. I can not see why people are comparing Deneb to nehalem. I see it more of a conroe vs york field not nehalem (AGENA v DENEB)

It all depends on how Deneb is priced.

[adamsleath]

In late June....Overclocks will hit 4.4 - 4.6

sounds too good to be true...not that i would know.

[soundood]

sounds too good to be true...not that i would know.

if you had said i would be hitting 3 gig on a quad core from AMD, this time last year (maybe little more) i would have found that hard to believe.

but here we are, hitting 3.5 gig some of us, this time next year i fully expect a 24 hour clock speed of 4 gig +

[gOtVoltage]

Im shure well see 4ghz easy by the First of the year using water/high end air 24/7....Wisky ,,Beer and other Overclocking additives will come into play this Holiday for any one who can get thier hands on One.

[soundood]

i got to admit, im getting excited now, my goal has allways been 4 gig on an amd chip, god when i made 3 gig on this 9850BE i was ecstatic.

pity i am in the UK, i wont see any of this till march probably, god were just getting the Asus Asus M3A79-T here.

if the 'vaporware' Nvidia ACC enabled boards dont turn up, i might just drag it out till AM3.

he sais, lying

[Macadamia]

LN2 might get you to 4.4-4.5, but don't expect more.

3.8-4.0 will be the max sweet spot I reckon, but it would be an extremely nice speed for most of us already. And unlike the i7, it doesn't get up to 70+ degrees at that.

[demonkevy666]

LN2 might get you to 4.4-4.5, but don't expect more.

3.8-4.0 will be the max sweet spot I reckon, but it would be an extremely nice speed for most of us already. And unlike the i7, it doesn't get up to 70+ degrees at that.

we've seen 4.3ghz on air. 4.4ghz-4.6ghz should be water I think 4.7ghz-5ghz will be LN2.

DDR3 and IMC I hope they can give a refesh and use ganged unganed like 4x 64 bit 2 x128 bit dual channels and waud channel.

deneb priced at $300 is fine for AMD.

[gallag]

15. Icore7 is looking Hotter then R600, phenom may have been hot but no that hot.

16. at least where not in a TDP OC with phenom.

The biggest reason will be the fact it will overclock to q6600's 3.6 level's without tdp going crazy like on nehalem.

Nehalem buyers will have remorse when they discover that even slight overclocks result in between 80C and 100C temps. We will see a huge migration of upset Intel customers to AMD Deneb.

And unlike the i7, it doesn't get up to 70+ degrees at that.

Nehalem looks to be the best and easiest cpu to oc ever. Before you reply with the predictable "But anandtech found that if you oc the lowest binned part by 1.3ghz on the stock cooler it might overheat" Think what you will say if deneb runs hot when you oc the lowest binned one by 1.3ghz on a stock cooler.

My prediction, Deneb will be a success, It will enjoy a 10-15% ipc improvement on average some things higher and some things lower and will have very good power usage below 3ghz, Over 3ghz it will be a lot worse due to current leakage with no highk metal gates.
It has a good chance of taking the performance per $ crown and the performance per watt below 3ghz crown.

[Particle]

I'm guessing we'll see something more sane--in the neighborhood of 3.3-3.4 GHz or so stable OCs in 64-bit being common. Even so, with the higher IPC, it's going to be nice.

[charged3800z24]

Nehalem looks to be the best and easiest cpu to oc ever. Before you reply with the predictable "But anandtech found that if you oc the lowest binned part by 1.3ghz on the stock cooler it might overheat" Think what you will say if deneb runs hot when you oc the lowest binned one by 1.3ghz on a stock cooler.

My prediction, Deneb will be a success, It will enjoy a 10-15% ipc improvement on average some things higher and some things lower and will have very good power usage below 3ghz, Over 3ghz it will be a lot worse due to current leakage with no highk metal gates.
It has a good chance of taking the performance per $ crown and the performance per watt below 3ghz crown.

I agree it will be a lil hoter under higher clocks.. but I still feel it will not be as bad as Agena.. did the guys over at Coolaler ever mention temps on the OC they had on air? I believe it was a huge heatsink..but anyways.. untill Highk, the OCing attepmt will most likely still need the v's to get there..which will result in higher temps and more power draw of course. I still agree they will do a much better job at OCing tho. I am no engineer so correct me if I am off base

[Jazzman]

I agree it will be a lil hoter under higher clocks.. but I still feel it will not be as bad as Agena.. did the guys over at Coolaler ever mention temps on the OC they had on air? I believe it was a huge heatsink..but anyways.. untill Highk, the OCing attepmt will most likely still need the v's to get there..which will result in higher temps and more power draw of course. I still agree they will do a much better job at OCing tho. I am no engineer so correct me if I am off base

Is 4.0Ghz at 53C on air while under 100% 4x load hot? It's a new day in AMD land!

[mongoled]

Is 4.0Ghz at 53C on air while under 100% 4x load hot? It's a new day in AMD land!

woohay where did that come from

[demonkevy666]

Nehalem looks to be the best and easiest cpu to oc ever. Before you reply with the predictable "But anandtech found that if you oc the lowest binned part by 1.3ghz on the stock cooler it might overheat" Think what you will say if deneb runs hot when you oc the lowest binned one by 1.3ghz on a stock cooler.

My prediction, Deneb will be a success, It will enjoy a 10-15% ipc improvement on average some things higher and some things lower and will have very good power usage below 3ghz, Over 3ghz it will be a lot worse due to current leakage with no highk metal gates.
It has a good chance of taking the performance per $ crown and the performance per watt below 3ghz crown.

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/articl...50aHVzaWFzdA==

83C on a TRUE heat sink.

the chips will operate at 80C but there life span will be shortened.

some lower phenom have a higher max temp then higher clocked one like 9550 72C vs 9850 66C

higher bins need less volts there i probably another reason why. but if it's above 70C for most chips that's hot.

Deneb 45nm lithography uses water immersion form IBM if you look at the PDF posted in the thread you will see it's has more precise etching now.

[Voodoo²]

Will deneb work in AM2 motherboards? My prediction is that it will not.

I don´t remember where i read it about this but the info was that AMD doesn´t recommend to give support for deneb in motherboards without separated power planes.

[gallag]

Is 4.0Ghz at 53C on air while under 100% 4x load hot? It's a new day in AMD land!

Something is not right with this, There is no way that 1.475v on a non highk process will max out at 53c on air, It just is not possible.

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/articl...50aHVzaWFzdA==

83C on a TRUE heat sink.

the chips will operate at 80C but there life span will be shortened.

some lower phenom have a higher max temp then higher clocked one like 9550 72C vs 9850 66C

higher bins need less volts there i probably another reason why. but if it's above 70C for most chips that's hot.

Deneb 45nm lithography uses water immersion form IBM if you look at the PDF posted in the thread you will see it's has more precise etching now.

What temp do you expect deneb to run at with a 1.2ghz oc? Also, I believe water immersion will not help with leakage with high volts on a non highk 45nm process.

[TheBlueChanell]

Something is not right with this, There is no way that 1.475v on a non highk process will max out at 53c on air, It just is not possible.



What temp do you expect deneb to run at with a 1.2ghz oc? Also, I believe water immersion will not help with leakage with high volts on a non highk 45nm process.

i haven't screwed around with it but maybe it's an AOD glitch? CPU-Z Says 1.68v. Which would be amazing if true

[hary]

CPU-Z Says 1.68v.

Cpu-z says 1.168v