To everyone in the WC section, Please read!

[fart_plume]

Bojamijams, The point which has been made earlier in the thread that people need to put themselves in the other person's shoes. People who have the lower performing parts may not have ready cash available to spend on more parts, so it's not a matter of "tolerating" these parts but helping a fellow WC'ing enthusiast with getting the most they can with in their means.

[Xilikon]

Yes, we all started as noobs, me included. I do remember my first time here in july 2007 asking questions and trying to find answers. Now that I experienced WC and modding (3 loops across 2 computers under my belt now), I'm ready to help the next guy to setup a loop based on his needs.

Also, there's something we should keep in mind : Someone's else build is not yours so don't use it as a extension of your own e-peen. Need to have somethings you are proud to show off ? Build it yourself or STFU.

fart_plume : I do agree with you that if someone already have the components (either a hands-me-down or bought very cheap), we should help take the best of what he got. However, if the user didn't have those parts and entertain the idea of picking some components we know is bad, it's our duty to steer him from buying this and offer better alternatives.

People may use the aluminium thing as a example of what to do or not to do but please don't argue here since it's not the right place to get off-topic.

[Lagaaja]

Altough I'm fairly new in XS, even I have noticed most of the stuff mentioned in this topic. And I gotta say, some of these fanbois and flamers have posted in this thread too, it's like they don't even recognise themselves.

Indeed this forum is the #1 place for me too to seek out news on the watercooling scene, and I surely wish this stays #1. Together we shall stand!

[DarthBeavis]

Altough I'm fairly new in XS, even I have noticed most of the stuff mentioned in this topic. And I gotta say, some of these fanbois and flamers have posted in this thread too, it's like they don't even recognise themselves.

Indeed this forum is the #1 place for me too to seek out news on the watercooling scene, and I surely wish this stays #1. Together we shall stand!

Like I said . . .add titles.

You can add mine mods:
Danger Den Fan Boi

There . . .done. I personally don't care Anyone who has been here a year or more knows when I first came here you could not mention Danger Den without flames left and right. Now Danger Den is widely accepted (even though you will still see EK FTW posts in DD threads but at least you do not see the hardcore hating that you did . . .and am I talking some respected folks here did that crap but obviously decided to take a second look and became better for it . . .or they just keep quiet . .either way they are being very professional about it which is what the rest of us should strive for).

[gillbot]

Funny one; I bought some WC parts from one of the guys here and I had an option to take one ApogeeGT or a pair of Fuzion v1's..
I had one apogeeGT and didn't want to rape the guy as he was giving me a very fair deal so I passed on the fuzions and took the one apogeeGT
The fuzions look a little prettier and might be 1-2C better but I'm happy and i'll shine all that chrome and make them beauuuuutiful!

Only reason I got the D-Tek was beacuse of the price. I was actually looking for another Apogee GT and found this Fuzion for less than most of the Apogee GT's I could find FS so I thought i'd try it.

[gillbot]

I disagree with two of your three points, let me expand...

#2) I'll agree on to an extent. When the "first timers" ask for advice on their "new" quasi-parallel / quasi-serial loop ideas, then you are doing them a disservice by not pointing out the virtues of two loops. This is WATERCOOLING not brain surgery, it's not that complicated. Heck my 9 year old understands it. Now recommending a 4 loop set-up, with multiple rads and multiple pumps in a single loop, is probably not kosher for the beginner.

#3) 3c gain is almost worth considering selling a kidney for some here at XS... Fans are also hallowed ground at XS... SanAce's, the holiest of holy's.

Remember what the name of the forum is XTREME SYSTEMS. XTREME SYSTEMS. It's not called Run-of-Mill Systems, rather XTREME SYTEMS. The name says it all...

SOME here may be die hard over 3C, I personally am not. If I see a block (such as the great Dtek v2/GTZ debate) that performs a mere 2-3C better than another, I'm not going to dismount and sell my current block then shell out $$ for a mere 2-3C gain. To me, anything within a C or two difference is well within the margin of error in testing and/or mounting.

Sure, we have a hardcore group that has methods in place to reduce these errors in their measurements but this isn't rocket science and i'm sure they are not using NASA grade measuring hardware because it just isn't THAT important.

My only thought is, why try and force a GTZ upgrade onto a new watercooler when he may not mount it properly to begin with. His temps may come out to be the same after changing over. To me, this is a disservice to him as he wasted his time and money over such a small potential gain, only for that gain not to be realized.

[DarthBeavis]

Well, after all the experience here . . .I am thinking about starting my own line of products. You all have seen my first prototype but here it is again for the uninitiated . . .and I am looking for fan bois to sign up:


the block keeps the CPU at a steady -150 C with NO condensation and it has freeze bug protection built in so your proc will always work. It also uses polymemetic overclocking alloy so it automatically overclocks your cpu at a minimum of 6 ghz and increases it in steps until it reaches the maximum oc which is always stable. I am including 1 million free WOW gold with the first 100 orders . . .

[DarthBeavis]

Maybe "Danger Den Fan Boi who's sponsered by Danger Den" would be a more apt description. At least then, everyone would have a perspective on where you're coming from. Maybe you could put all your sponserships and vendor affiliations for your highly publizized builds in your sig?

Maybe even the reviewers or testers could do the same for any parts recieved from a vendor worth over 100.00 USD if they're kept fo their own use.

Not a bash, just a thought as a way to keep things clean here on the forum.

andyc

the sponsorship list would be darned long . . . I totally agree with people knowing where you are coming from . . .but what will people see when they see Koolance and Danger Den in my sig, then they see I have done builds with EK and Swiftech. Won't they be confused?

[DarthBeavis]

SOME here may be die hard over 3C, I personally am not. If I see a block (such as the great Dtek v2/GTZ debate) that performs a mere 2-3C better than another, I'm not going to dismount and sell my current block then shell out $$ for a mere 2-3C gain. To me, anything within a C or two difference is well within the margin of error in testing and/or mounting.

Sure, we have a hardcore group that has methods in place to reduce these errors in their measurements but this isn't rocket science and i'm sure they are not using NASA grade measuring hardware because it just isn't THAT important.

My only thought is, why try and force a GTZ upgrade onto a new watercooler when he may not mount it properly to begin with. His temps may come out to be the same after changing over. To me, this is a disservice to him as he wasted his time and money over such a small potential gain, only for that gain not to be realized.

Said it before, say it again (and Marci jumped me for stating this but I still stand by it): If you care THAT much about a 3c delta . . .take the next step and head over to the Pelt or phase change forums. The best you will get here is ambient.

[DarthBeavis]

I was thinking current major sponsers. The one's your primarily engaged with based on the level of sponsership. Like the top 4 or something.

We could all do the same if applicable. But, that doesn't give others the right to bash the sponsered party. Ask about the affiliation in a open forum yes, attack someone, no.

andyc

I would say list the sponsors per build for the last year or maybe two? It would be cool to see by build who helped and then link to a work log here so people can go check it out. You get a multi-faceted benefit . . .transparency and also you get to tie a person's work together so if I see one of your posts and want to know more about you I can just follow the details in links in your sig. It also encourages us to make worklogs. . .great idea Andy!!!!!!!!!
A standard format or template would be great for the sigs . . .

[sheriff_deadeye]

MM thanks for posting this thread. As i stated in other threads, i just finished my first WC build, and all is working great thanks to the great info and help here at XS.

I did go with a few decisions that, based on the very recent atmosphere at XS, would not be considered the 'right' build but it met my requirements and has been running non-stop without issue for 2 months now. Fortunately several members posted positive feedback and one specifically refuted the 'right build' mentality. Overall, my experience has been great here at XS, but i'm glad to see an outright effort to keep it that way.

Finally...the decisions i made were my own, based on hours and hours of reading here at XS. Which means i was able to extract the solid test data, good opinions and good experiences to form my own decisions. Before i started my build, I had no WC knowledge so I made it a point to gain as much understanding as possible.

If you come to XS new to WC and ask "what should i buy; how should i built it?" but you do not have at least a basic understanding of WC, then you are opening the door to a flood of opinions. Also, if you about to embark on your first WC project, then it's not a bad idea to assume you will spend 5% - 20% of your original budget on mistakes. I don't see anything wrong with that assumption...be it the wrong sized clamps, radiator grill, res, or other issues. Sometimes an RMA is not a possibility. It is good to have a goal of keeping fanboyism to a min., but it will always lurk to some degree. Having a solid understanding of the basics and doing your own research so you understand and are not just following blindly, and being willing to make mistakes, will result in a better experience and a better build.

So the Mods will do their best to tackle the problem and monitor the threads, but it's also up to the rest of us to do our homework, ignore some of the noise, and make the build that best suites our requirements. After all, you can' t believe everything you read on the net.

[[XC] Hicks121]

So the Mods will do their best to tackle the problem and monitor the threads, but it's also up to the rest of us to do our homework, ignore some of the noise, and make the build that best suites our requirements. After all, you can' t believe everything you read on the net.

QFT!!

[DarthBeavis]

I think ultimately, if agreed upon by the mods, it should be them who decides the format and level of detail. Also, what punishment/bans levied is not adhered to after warnings on both sides.

Not tyring to turn the forum into a bureaucracy or anything, just a way to smooth the waters and retain the forums integrity in the near term.

Because we're losing new and old members over this type of thing, over all the in fighting it's caused, and that's the biggest shame of all. I consider this to be the best forum on WC'ing, that's why I only contribute here on XS.

I'd like to see it stay that way

And I don't mean to single you out, or make you out as a lightning rod for the problem. It's far more reaching than any one single person. As a matter of fact, I respect your honesty about the sponderships and such. It's refreshing.

andyc

I stand by my method of helping people here so no problem (well, other than the little war with RRR). I challenge anyone to do a search of my posts and ten tell me I push any SINGLE water-cooling vendor I can say this because I know what you will find. I normally list at least two to three makes (DD,EK, and then one of the others such as Swiftek or Koolance as of late). I do not personally recommend Dtek as I have none of their products but I do tell people that the Fusions are some of the most popular ones so they might take that into consideration. I recommend BI, TC, and Feser rads although I have clearly been the leader in questioning where TC is at the moment and about their future prospects.

We are BLESSED to have so many kick arse vendors to choose from with new ones coming onto the market (Feser, Bitspower to name a couple) and with the older ones really pushing the envelope (Ben at MM is just going insane with his cases . . . and Vincent at BP and Mario at Feser are tearing it up in the hizzle ma nizzles). If anything we should all be pulling together as they are pretty exciting times and we should be glad to have such a fun hobby to distract us from the rest of the world which is full of crap at the moment.

Hell, I am currently on another forum in the middle of fights with Republicans on one side and Democrats on the other and libertarian me in the middle getting fragged

[DarthBeavis]

MM thanks for posting this thread. As i stated in other threads, i just finished my first WC build, and all is working great thanks to the great info and help here at XS.

I did go with a few decisions that, based on the very recent atmosphere at XS, would not be considered the 'right' build but it met my requirements and has been running non-stop without issue for 2 months now. Fortunately several members posted positive feedback and one specifically refuted the 'right build' mentality. Overall, my experience has been great here at XS, but i'm glad to see an outright effort to keep it that way.

Finally...the decisions i made were my own, based on hours and hours of reading here at XS. Which means i was able to extract the solid test data, good opinions and good experiences to form my own decisions. Before i started my build, I had no WC knowledge so I made it a point to gain as much understanding as possible.

If you come to XS new to WC and ask "what should i buy; how should i built it?" but you do not have at least a basic understanding of WC, then you are opening the door to a flood of opinions. Also, if you about to embark on your first WC project, then it's not a bad idea to assume you will spend 5% - 20% of your original budget on mistakes. I don't see anything wrong with that assumption...be it the wrong sized clamps, radiator grill, res, or other issues. Sometimes an RMA is not a possibility. It is good to have a goal of keeping fanboyism to a min., but it will always lurk to some degree. Having a solid understanding of the basics and doing your own research so you understand and are not just following blindly, and being willing to make mistakes, will result in a better experience and a better build.

So the Mods will do their best to tackle the problem and monitor the threads, but it's also up to the rest of us to do our homework, ignore some of the noise, and make the build that best suites our requirements. After all, you can' t believe everything you read on the net.

We should all practice this mantra . . ."There is no right . . .only what is right for you" . . .I too often forget this and do not take into account things like limited means or using what one has . . .

[[XC] riptide]

^^^ *sigh* I miss the old Speak Freely days...

[gillbot]

Said it before, say it again (and Marci jumped me for stating this but I still stand by it): If you care THAT much about a 3c delta . . .take the next step and head over to the Pelt or phase change forums. The best you will get here is ambient.

I agree, to me it's more about °C per $ spent than anything. All I know is my "ghetto" watercooler setup absolutely destroys my old air cooler. I have less in my watercooling setup than most people do in their TRUE heatsinks + fans.

I'n not the typical XS'er, I'm more budget minded than throw every $ at it for max °C drops. It has to be a serious gain for me to even consider it. With that said, i tend to err towards the cheap side when I make a recommendation to a 1st time watercooler. I've seen WAY too many people run off after dumping hundreds into a setup that is too complicated for them, then it not perform the way they hoped it would.

[TedShred]

It's sad to hear of someone bailing from XS for the reasons stated in the quoted PM. But, fwiw from a noobiest-of-noobs perspective, I think this forum is still the best there is (3DGuru is pretty awesome too). Personally, I'm amazed at the degree of courtesy I've been shown, even after posting something that I realized (too late... sigh) was completely idiotic. It's positively amazing how much I've learned here in the past 6 months. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I haven't noticed the conflict on certain threads lately. But, as far as the ongoing health of the forum goes, I've also noticed an incredible amount of self-examinatio by a lot of forum members, including the guys that I really look up to. And that's hugely encouraging.

This forum rocks and, imo, will continue to do so because so many peeps genuinely care about it.

Excellent thread Dave.

edit: "self examination" didn't come out right - I meant not so much people examining themselves (tho it's part of it), but more an examination of the forum itself to ensure it meets certain standards.

[p8ntslinger676]

You guys ran off Marci, Cathar, and MaxxRacer from this forum. Well done. Let's just let the WC wars die already.

aww...wtf, now why did they go and do that!?!?! now that makes me mad (i've been busy with school lately so i havent really had time to get on much, so im kind of out of the loop on the whole situation)

come on guys, grow up, the point of this forum is to help one another out to the best of your ability. If someone comes in here asking for help and advise mentor them and do what you can to teach them what you know so they will get the information they need and maybe they will in turn be able to help someone else out later on down the road.

[[XC] riptide]

aww...wtf, now why did they go and do that!?!?! now that makes me mad (i've been busy with school lately so i havent really had time to get on much, so im kind of out of the loop on the whole situation)

come on guys, grow up, the point of this forum is to help one another out to the best of your ability. If someone comes in here asking for help and advise mentor them and do what you can to teach them what you know so they will get the information they need and maybe they will in turn be able to help someone else out later on down the road.

Well its not really like that. Marci got a new job. Cathar had a accident on the bike and was busy with that.. and Maxx got himself some woman.

[DarthBeavis]

Well its not really like that. Marci got a new job. Cathar had a accident on the bike and was busy with that.. and Maxx got himself some woman.

where do you get women?

[fart_plume]

Well in Riptide's case the local flock.....................

[Xilikon]

where do you get women?

Thought you got a red one ???

[[XC] riptide]

where do you get women?

I get them shipped in from Ohio...

[[XC] riptide]

Well in Riptide's case the local flock.....................

[fart_plume]

i told you it was too easy today, and i had a low resistance to easy