To everyone in the WC section, Please read!

[Movieman]

Lets get back to making Xtreme Systems ...... XTREME !!!!!

All that needs to happen is for the people here to say this to themselves:
"These are people here that I come to share my experiences with as friends.
I come here to teach and to learn in an atmosphere of friendship"

Now if anyone here thinks I'm someone living in a world with a rose colored sky your wrong.
aged 56, 35 years of selling, and read that as dealing with people. All types.
Check the ego at the door and the rest will happen all by itself.

[Waterlogged]

Gentlemen;
I just removed some posts.
Some just because they quoted others that needed to be removed so don't read anything into it that isn't there.

The whole point of this thread orginally was to say that things have to change here.
That people have to use a little common sense and reason in their responses and also that anyone that works for any company and then slyly badmouths another company in the attempt to increase sales is a POS in my opinion and will be removed.
Anyone even thought to be doing so will be removed.
We will also deal with one another with respect and courtesy.
You don't have to agree with everyone but don't attack the man, attack his arguement. I have been saying that one line over and over for almost a year yet sometimes I think people close their ears.
Do I make myself clear on these points?
Lets take this place back to what it used to be.
A place where friends could come together and discuss water cooling and learn from one another.
Leave the frigging ego's home and enter here as friends or simply stay out of this section. It is that simple.


Cute, but I am not that complex.
I look right down the middle and try to calm excitable people and issues.
When I can't do it nicely I do it the hard way.
I hate, I repeat, I hate having to ban anyone but sometimes it is all that a person will listen to.
Now as to you, come january in las Vegas you and I will sit down at a table with a couple bottles of jack and have a long talk.. and there will be a third person there also.
it will be very interesting..
Now if it gets too interesting I'm 5'10" and 220 and brought up on the streets.
I am 56 but I still got a few good minutes left in me.
We will talk and when the talk is over the three of us will stand up as friends.

Odd, I got an infraction for doing just that


Make it Jager, you'll get further

I've been staying out of this until now because I happen to agree with Ashraf on this one and see very little good coming out of ppl being able to post, even though I think he totally blew it on NeaKuh's Koolance topic. I had a totally legit request for Dean at the end of that topic that likely was never seen.
This should have been posted and locked as an edict for all to see and reflect upon.

[fart_plume]

I don't agree at all. Reason? Because i was able to make a point and my friend Andy understood what I was trying to say and that's what this thread is about, getting people to realize that some times you have to stand in someone else's shoes to help.

[emuexport]

Thanks for making this post movieman. I think it is a move back in the right direction having been a member for a couple of months now I saw it heading more and more in the wrong direction but I chose to ignore it and skim the majority of posts in some threads. Hopefully we can all get what we need out of this forum which in my mind is sharing of unbiased opinions and information (where applicable).

Needless to say I have really enjoyed my time on the forums and am learning more about WC all the time! Hopefully I can help others out as i learn more.

emu

[Movieman]

Odd, I got an infraction for doing just that


Make it Jager, you'll get further

I've been staying out of this until now because I happen to agree with Ashraf on this one and see very little good coming out of ppl being able to post, even though I think he totally blew it on NeaKuh's Koolance topic. I had a totally legit request for Dean at the end of that topic that likely was never seen.
This should have been posted and locked as an edict for all to see and reflect upon.

You got an infraction for attacking a person my friend.
Lets be honest with each other ok?
Vapor gave you an infraction for saying this to a member:
initialised, What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points and may what ever God you pray to have mercy on your soul.
Now that was May so i'll assume you forgot but God's truth, we do not go around looking to start trouble with the membership.
I've spent the better part of 15 hours over the last 3 days dealing with 3 different issues between people.
Don't you think that I'd rather be spending that time at MY interest?
The WCG team?
Think about this ok?
I'm not here to make your life miserable.
I'm here because I enjoy the place and the people here.

[Waterlogged]

You got an infraction for attacking a person my friend.
Lets be honest with each other ok?
Vapor gave you an infraction for saying this to a member:
initialised, What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points and may what ever God you pray to have mercy on your soul.
Now that was May so i'll assume you forgot but God's truth, we do not go around looking to start trouble with the membership.
I've spent the better part of 15 hours over the last 3 days dealing with 3 different issues between people.
Don't you think that I'd rather be spending that time at MY interest?
The WCG team?
Think about this ok?
I'm not here to make your life miserable.
I'm here because I enjoy the place and the people here.

I did not fight it then or say anything until now because I knew the admin team here wouldn't understand but, I was attacking what was said....how is that attacking the man? The key word in what I said there was "said" but if you guys choose not to see it that way, what the hell can I do about it?.....Nothing, that's what.

[Ashraf]

I think he totally blew it on NeaKuh's Koolance topic.

Don't worry, there was a reason why it was removed. Vapor, NaeKuh, and other members agreed with the decision.

[CyberDruid]

I have been around this Forum for longer than I was a member and I was still around longer after joining before I felt comfortable posting in the Liquid Cooling Forum. If you want to see a classic XS Welcome to a "new guy" trying to share an Xtreme project take a look at my Thread about my "Monolith" cooler. I don't have to name names..the posts are all there to speak for themselves. It was far from a friendly experience. I felt harangued by a couple of the regulars here over the stupidest stuff...using pipe paste on an O-ring fitting, and not getting my nomenclature perfectly correct when identifying the types of fittings I was using.

Seriously...if it was not for the fact that I had already built DOZENS of liquid cooled systems professionally by that time I might have just deleted the thread and moved on...but since I have confidence in myself I was able to confront my Trolls and prove without a doubt that I am one of the most Xtreme Watercooling Fanatics on this Forum.

It irks me no end to see relative newcomers trying to better rank themselves in some sort of perverse pecking order...they form alliances and hold grudges and do battle as if this were a constructive and meaningful addition to the Liquid Cooling Forum.

I see innovators being ranked lower than replicators and I see a lot of snippy exchanges.

I see a lot of "shadow" promotion/badmouthing going on (which I am glad Movieman recognizes and despises) and it's setting a poor tone for anyone that is not part of some weird faction here.

If it were not for my incredibly durable ego I would have given up even posting my builds here...but over time the peck-ers stopped trying to peck me into some rank in their file and I was able to enjoy a certain liberty to show off my work here without the usual banal and anal replies from the usual suspects.

I did not come here thinking I knew anything. I spent a good year researching the field, reading the posts by the best of the best (who have left BTW) and deciding that this odd hobby was exactly what I like to do. It was not like coming into some friendly open arms let me tell you...but the knowledge I gained was worth the intimidation of not understanding half of the abstruse mathematics.

That all has changed...oh it's the same bristly environment of talking heads...problem is the heads are simply regurgitating what they think they know. These Talking Heads are not the innovators, the testers, the developers, the designers...these talking heads are CONSUMERS whinging about their BRANDS. So what is the trade off for putting up with their attitudes? Is there some great knowledge to be had? I think not...it's more like watching an insipid soap opera.

What would bring back some juice here is to STFU and actually DO something. Show us something you've learned by experimentation...by trial and error...by making an error and correcting it...anything would be better than hearing the same crap over and over.

When the innovator is once again the focus of our interest the balance will be regained.

Thanks a lot MovieMan. I really think you have your heart in the right place...which is more than I can say for some of the people that call this place their home.

[fart_plume]

I'm going to say this once cutless the specail olympics comment will get you banned. Edit it for your own sake.

[Waterlogged]

Don't worry, there was a reason why it was removed. Vapor, NaeKuh, and other members agreed with the decision.

A simple locking would have sufficed...no?

[DarthBeavis]

Now as to you, come january in las Vegas you and I will sit down at a table with a couple bottles of jack and have a long talk.. and there will be a third person there also.
it will be very interesting..
Now if it gets too interesting I'm 5'10" and 220 and brought up on the streets.
I am 56 but I still got a few good minutes left in me.
We will talk and when the talk is over the three of us will stand up as friends.

Not sure if my sponsor is going to send me to CES . . .still trying to figure out a way to go . . .

as far a getting interesting . . .I am a lover not a fighter . . .sorta I do test for my 2nd DD Black Belt decided in Nov Jager sounds good . . .

[Ashraf]

A simple locking would have sufficed...no?

That is what we would do, but no. There was a reason to remove it from public.

[Waterlogged]

That is what we would do, but no. There was a reason to remove it from public.

Care to PM this to me? I may just agree with it.

[HotGore]

There are three main reasons why this has spread to this point.

1) We have very little data, lots is discounted on testing methodology. This means that idiots can get away recommending stupid crap, and no one can prove them wrong. This has to change, but people like Martinm and others do not have the time or resources to do up to quick reviews.

2) We are recommending loops to beginners that are too complex. Doing a dual loop for some first timers can be very overwhelming.

3) 3c difference is not worth arguing over. Hell people fight about fans.

[Waterlogged]

I have been around this Forum for longer than I was a member and I was still around longer after joining before I felt comfortable posting in the Liquid Cooling Forum. If you want to see a classic XS Welcome to a "new guy" trying to share an Xtreme project take a look at my Thread about my "Monolith" cooler. I don't have to name names..the posts are all there to speak for themselves. It was far from a friendly experience. I felt harangued by a couple of the regulars here over the stupidest stuff...using pipe paste on an O-ring fitting, and not getting my nomenclature perfectly correct when identifying the types of fittings I was using.

<snip>

Geez CD, you still sore over that? I'd thought we had moved on and gotten sort of friendly since then? I still maintain what I said in post #19 of that topic, there was no intended malice on my part, I'm sorry you perceived it that way.

[Freaky Freezer]

initialised, What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points and may what ever God you pray to have mercy on your soul.

That is a variation of the line from Billy Madison. It's the part when the moderator abuses Adam Sandler after he tries to BS his way through a question. Just thought I would point that out for all your trivia fans.

And now more importantly, I implore everyone to remember that it can always be worse, this forum could be like EOCF. Now there is a true collection of @#$%&bags amongst poor innocent kids trying to learn something and instead having nearly every member who has 1000+ posts taking turns verbally trampling them. At least on this site, three-quarters, if not more of the senior members are very friendly and helpful. At the end of the day, I have 2 watercooled computers that run perfectly and there will be more in the future, all thanks to this forum.

[Omastar]

Remember what the name of the forum is XTREME SYSTEMS. XTREME SYSTEMS. It's not called Run-of-Mill Systems, rather XTREME SYTEMS. The name says it all...

We get it.

[Sadasius]

I have mentioned my issues on another thread about thread destroyers who enlighten the newer members on how their thread will not work or is not useful. I thought it was pretty sad especially when they were trying to involve themselves just to get hassled. There is a lot of very bad ego pillaging in these WC forums and it does get tiring. I would also like to make a suggestion about the "Water Cooled Case Gallery". Can't we just make it pics only and comments can be reserved for PM's. I hate scrolling through so many posts that have no real content for the thread other then praise for some people rigs which is not a bad thing but I go to that thread to see the rigs, not the endless posts of ego nurturing that I think is enabling the bad behavior here.

I am here to learn and perhaps to help out the odd fellow if I happen to know something or can give some ideas. It is hard to be Xtreme when you have to fight through so many ego's on here because you have to sift through what is useful and what is just banter, praise, fights, bull headedness, experienced WC God's who kill any thread they see fit, Fanboism FTW comments etc. Needless to say I do a lot of scrolling without even reading and that just sucks because I may scroll over something that was important and should have been read. I feel for the new users the most who come in here thinking this is all handled professionally with the experienced users. Sadly this is not the case and new members opinions, ideas and perceptions have to be thrown in the garbage because they 'have' to adapt to the thinking, perceptions of the experienced and also have to buy their gear and be emulated to be accepted as a genuine Xtreme WC'er. You nailed it on the head Movieman when you said ego's need to be checked at the door.

Also for the love of God, can't we just shoot posters who use FTW comments? If my math is correct they are wearing down my scroll wheel needlessly an extra 15% per year in these forums.

[[XC] riptide]

^^^ hahah.

Great Post Dave. I must say I'm smiling broadly at this thread. You guys are great.

[twwen2]

Wow!

I go away for one weekend and look what i missed.
I feel like the kid at school who had a day off and missed the once-in-a year brawl in the canteen!
I agree with MovieMan, things had gotten to the point where something needed to be done.

I hope we all take a step back and think about why we're here and how we treat each other.

Long live XS, the best and most proffessional forum in the whole wide world!

[Shocker003]

Good morning to all members that have choosen to wake up and am happy the Modds are stepping in. I prefer keeping my mouth shut than than dishing out wrong infos to someone that really needs help. We are like a family and babies get born everyday. Why should most of the old members kill off the new babies, by giving them wrong infos and he ends up wasting his money. I joined XS to learn how to watercool my rig. Most blocks i bought where painted black (NB&SB blocks), i still have them in my loop and woun´t be changing them, as they get the job done. There are people that can upgrade or downgrade because they have the money or got these parts for free. Please before you start posting figures make sure your new toy has been in service for at least 3 months. Their are people out there that will buy it due to the infos you left behind and after some weeks, they end up rust, leaks, failure etc. Thou shall not mix metal (alu) but if nickel plated and it comes from this company, it´s ok (Koolat). Oh guys my temps are high, what should i do? Change your pump(got the pump changed and my temp got pretty bad) actually happened to me. Well we learn from our mistakes and we should learn to respect everyone view or ideas. No one is all knowing, even if you have been watercooling for 50 years.

[Xilikon]

Good move Dave, I'm also getting sick of useless shills posting crap and having people dissing parts because it's not Xtreme... As may people said, not everyone have money growing on trees so try to make a recommendation within a reasonable frame set by the OP. Also, I rarely recommend anything I didn't experiment myself unless that part got lots of positive experience and recommendations from the experts.

However, we should also know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but attacking is frowned up. If you have a problem with a opinion, either ignore it or counter it with valid facts, not bashing.

[Bojamijams]

I'm a newcomer so I was never a member when Cathar, Maxx and others were regulars here. Though from the posts I read I agree we lost knowledable people, I don't feel like the 'new' LQ forums are as bad as the original PM writer made it out to be. Yes its a little annoying when people are recommending products they haven't even used themselves in a running loop yet, but its still somebodies 'opinion' that is being posted here. Take it as that and not so personal.

As for why people are so against aluminum and koolance, I mean really, we're XTREME systems. Why should we tolerate crap components that are shown time and time and time again to cause corrosion and problems? Seen Naekuh's picture of koolance caps?

Yes aluminum can be 'controlled' if such and such a substance is purchased, but why go through all that hassle when that substance will cause OTHER problems (clouding, clogging, 'strange deposits'). IF distilled water is the ultimate best, why should XS not recommend it? If distilled+nuke is the next best, why should we not recommend it?

If you want to buy crap like koolance and want to mix aluminum and copper, and want to use dies and nuke together and mix pentosin and shake and bake and all this other crap, just go ahead and do it and deal with the issues. If you come here to ask for opinions of some 'experts' (I am not calling myself one btw, just listing others like Naekuh, Martin, Andy, IanY, iandh, etc.) then send them a PM directly. They'll either answer you or won't. If you want an opinion of the community, start a thread. But then if people make fun of you for wanting to use a stupid combo stuff, take it in stride that your idea was a bad one, be glad that you found out before you tried it yourself and spend money, and learn about what people are saying in the thread.

A single post saying "EK FTW" is hardly enough to cry about.

[IanY]

If you come here to ask for opinions of some 'experts' (I am not calling myself one btw, just listing others like Naekuh, Martin, Andy, IanY, iandh, etc.) then send them a PM directly. They'll either answer you or won't.

Its extremely flattering, but please don't list me in that crowd. I have too much respect for the compatriots to taint their individual and collective reputations lol

All PMs always answered here. There are no dumb questions. All are good questions. Opinions handed out, whether solicited or not

[Movieman]

Good move Dave, I'm also getting sick of useless shills posting crap and having people dissing parts because it's not Xtreme... As may people said, not everyone have money growing on trees so try to make a recommendation within a reasonable frame set by the OP. Also, I rarely recommend anything I didn't experiment myself unless that part got lots of positive experience and recommendations from the experts.

However, we should also know that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but attacking is frowned up. If you have a problem with a opinion, either ignore it or counter it with valid facts, not bashing.

EXACTLY!
I don't comment on every post I see even though my post count may look like I do.
many times I see someone headed the wrong direction and just send them a PM of "hey, saw your post, you might want to try this."
So many ways here to communicate and be helpful IF you want to.
If you see a troll, report the post and let us deal with him, don't get into a back and forth as thats what trolls want. They get off on busting your balls and the best way to deal with them is to ignore them.
THAT busts their balls bigtime and frustrates them.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that this section and all of Xs should be and can be a place to come and learn with friends.
I'm just like you guys, I come here, I look at the builds and stare in wonder at the skills of people like Cyberdruid and many others.
I look at DarthBeavis creations and just shake my head at the skill and time involved
I read Martin's tests and mentally thank him for the work he's done.
I waited and watched Mcoffey's test on the ST GTZ just like you guys did.
I learn from Niksub's comments and add it all up.
The water cooling section isn't just one or two people, it is the combined knowledge that makes it and the people involved.
Yes, we miss people like Marci,Cathar and Maxxracer but people do change jobs and also their lives change.
I talked to Maxx last night. His life has changed and I think it's of a cute female persuation that's mostly to blame.
I'm happy for him and I'm sure at some point he'll be back.
The whole thing is to step back and use this area for what it's intended to be.
A place to show your work, ask questions and also to answer questions for others.
The n00b guy here today will be the old pro next year answering the questions then BUT only if that new guy is made to feel welcome.
I think back on my first post in this section asking questions and the good help I received. I met some great people here in Cyberdruid,Sigfever,123bob and I've lately come to know mcoffey. Very good guy and we're lucky to have him here. There are more and I'm sure I'll get to know them over time but the key is your attitude when you come here.
Extend a hand of friendship and generally you get one back.
Think on this and if you incorporate this thinking into your actions here your experience will be much better.