Thermochill rad flux cleanup

[Rinaun]

Any guesses on what that red/brown stuff in my radiator might be and how to clean it? Under what conditions would brass or copper oxidize in that way?

looks like algae to me. I highly doubt its rust.

[menace2society]

There was never problems with thermochill radiators till so many noob came buying them and adding some exotic chemicals in their loops with crappy tubing

Maybe get good tubing, no additives and you can use your thermochill again

There was always a problem with thermochill and the" noob's" as you call them, uncovered it.

As long as the attitude towards this product does not change, the product wont change

Thermochill will continue with business as usual because the numbers support business as usual.

Who buy's a new Ferrari off of the show room floor an then have it towed to the mechanic so he/she can fix it BEFORE he even start it up, then go tell his friends about how great his new car is and how its OK that it won't work right for the first several months and he should go buy one just like it

I think this community, if no other community, should hold Thermochill to task, and until sombody does we can only expect more of the same st for product.

Thermochill

Keep it

[IanY]

Who buy's a new Ferrari off of the show room floor an then have it towed to the mechanic so he/she can fix it BEFORE he even start it up, then go tell his friends about how great his new car is and how its OK that it won't work right for the first several months and he should go buy one just like it

Sounds just like an Enzo lol

[jonny_ftm]

There is nothing wrong with TC rads. Seems to be a bunch of loose nuts behind the keyboards...

If you don't like'em, then don't buy'em...

+1

Unless the new batches of thermochill radiators have something changed in their metal building or polishing, which I doubt

Anyhow, nor me, neither most people here ever found a problem with their thermochill for years until these few last weeks. All reports are using some PT nuke and other "bizarre" additives. The reaction is so quick that it's evident it's not oxidation. It's some chemical reaction with coolant/metal/tube parts

Try pure distilled and come back report

[Zaskar]

There was always a problem with thermochill and the" noob's" as you call them, uncovered it.

As long as the attitude towards this product does not change, the product wont change

Thermochill will continue with business as usual because the numbers support business as usual.

Who buy's a new Ferrari off of the show room floor an then have it towed to the mechanic so he/she can fix it BEFORE he even start it up, then go tell his friends about how great his new car is and how its OK that it won't work right for the first several months and he should go buy one just like it

I think this community, if no other community, should hold Thermochill to task, and until sombody does we can only expect more of the same st for product.

Thermochill

Keep it

Problem is, while its expensive, the manufacturing cost is still higher as is then most other rads. To have the pre cleaned would add close to $10-$15 to the cost, or else they wouldn't make much money.

Personally I think it would be worth a few extra bucks for them to use some kind of rad flush when their pressure/leak testing the rads, to make the post purchase flushing a bit easier, but whether that's worth it for you is personal preference. Many seem to not like Feser rads cause their 15-20 bucks more, so many probably wouldn't.

[menace2society]

There is nothing wrong with TC rads. Seems to be a bunch of loose nuts behind the keyboards...

If you don't like'em, then don't buy'em...

I didn't

Problem is, while its expensive, the manufacturing cost is still higher as is then most other rads. To have the pre cleaned would add close to $10-$15 to the cost, or else they wouldn't make much money.

Personally I think it would be worth a few extra bucks for them to use some kind of rad flush when their pressure/leak testing the rads, to make the post purchase flushing a bit easier, but whether that's worth it for you is personal preference. Many seem to not like Feser rads cause their 15-20 bucks more, so many probably wouldn't.

Don't mean to sound crass, but how do you know what manufacturing to profitability cost are?

What ever the costs are leaving the Rad dirty should not be a option.

+1

Unless the new batches of thermochill radiators have something changed in their metal building or polishing, which I doubt

Anyhow, nor me, neither most people here ever found a problem with their thermochill for years until these few last weeks. All reports are using some PT nuke and other "bizarre" additives. The reaction is so quick that it's evident it's not oxidation. It's some chemical reaction with coolant/metal/tube parts

Try pure distilled and come back report

Thermochill doesn't make there Rads out anything DIFFERENT then Swiftech,HWlabs or anybody else and if it's not happening with the other Rads and these "bizarre additives" .... Then who should be held accountable Thermochill or the boogieman

[jonny_ftm]

Thermochill doesn't make there Rads out anything DIFFERENT then Swiftech,HWlabs or anybody else and if it's not happening with the other Rads and these "bizarre additives" .... Then who should be held accountable Thermochill or the boogieman

boogieman FTW


Seriously, a coolant that reacts that bad should be avoided, not the radiator. Further more, someone else noted it could be tubing related too. Maybe it is more complex: tubing, additive, WB component...

Anyway, just fill your radiator with the coolant and let it few days. If it comes milky, than maybe it is the radiator+coolant reaction, which I doubt.

Than try it with pure distilled and see.

Do the same with a piece of the tubing

If you do all of this, give us some feedback. That will be contributing posting instead of throwing the fault to thermochill whithout even knowing what's the milky stuff you're seeing

[gojirasan]

Thermochill rads are so popular around here. I wonder if they are mostly to blame for the clouding issue. I have two and one of them had something like twice as much flux that I was able to wash out with boiling distilled water. I think that shows how much variability there is for individual rads. Some will be easier to clean than others. It seems like we haven't yet discovered a method to remove all of the flux. As far as soaking the rad for days, I haven't had much luck with that. It didn't seem to remove any more gunk than it did waiting an hour for the boiling water to cool down to room temp again. I think the only way is to use a stream of tap water for a really long time. Maybe days. Or to just keep cycling through boiling water again and again and again. The essential problem of course is that we can't get in there with a brush to physically scrub the stuff out. Maybe it's really best to pair the TC rads with completely opaque (as opposed to merely translucent) tubing.

[Navanod]

+1

Unless the new batches of thermochill radiators have something changed in their metal building or polishing, which I doubt

Anyhow, nor me, neither most people here ever found a problem with their thermochill for years until these few last weeks. All reports are using some PT nuke and other "bizarre" additives. The reaction is so quick that it's evident it's not oxidation. It's some chemical reaction with coolant/metal/tube parts

Try pure distilled and come back report

In caase you didn't read the link I had posted, here it is again

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=133038

The main point I would like to draw your attention to would be the fact that Thermochill only changed to water soluable flux early last year.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...9&postcount=49

Which means your last 50 decades of happy usage have little relevance and is moot in this discussion.
Unless you have a water soluable flux PA120, please stop the name calling (eg. noobs)

Our complaints are not without reasons. If you see that thread linked above, there're plenty of non-noobs having the same issues.

You're starting a new build with 2 more of the rads. Are they brand new and made after feb 2007?
If so, maybe you can have a taste of the amount of dirt in it. Give some constructive feedbacks as well instead of pointing at un-named boogie coolants and tubings

[IanY]

Again, 17.5 gallons of distilled water

Forget North Sea and West Texas crude. I wonder if they sell distilled water call options and long future contracts.

[Zaskar]

rant, rant, rant....... Give it up.....

I bought the following Thermochill Radiators:

(4) PA120.3
(1) Pa120.2

I used 10 gallons of boiling distilled water to clean them, followed with @ 7.5 gallons of room temp distilled water....

No flux left in MY rads....

Sounds to me like you peeps are just Anti-ThermoChill.... Sell them or don't buy them and move on..........

Didn't you also like me spend an abnormally long amount of time flushing the rads though, and at least even considered using the Pentec filter just to be safe even if its overkill?

At the very least id recommend that people spend a little more time flushing the rads then is usually suggested (which usually was around 4-10 fills/shakes and then your done) just to be safe.

[IanY]

To be honest, my OC problems caused me to use that much distilled. Around 5 gal. would have been sufficient.

Then again, after spending upwards of $5-6k on MY build, what does it hurt to buy 20 gal. of distilled??? Apparently, I don't have a problem spending $$$. It's only the po that seem to complain....


It's real simple math here peeps....

You have NO $$$ = Swifty radiators

You HAVE $$$ = Better performing ThermoChill radiators

There, that wasn't so hard, was it......

Yo.. I bought 22 gallons of distilled water in one go myself. I still use mainly tap water to clean, except for the final rinse, but whatever floats your boat.

Buy TC when it makes sense. Buy MCR when it makes sense.

If I could fit double the amount of rads, I would buy twice the number in MCRs. Since I am always space limited, I stick to TCs. You can't cramp 8 MCRs into a case.

[Zaskar]

Well yea, just saying that if your having a great experience with them it might be because you also spent what would be considered overkill in cleaning them.

So for the purpose of being constructive (if thats truly what your trying to be) it might not be a bad idea to also recommend others to be a bit overly thorough in flushing these rads, just in case the new flux they use in them does indeed take a bit longer to get out then the older ones.

Just saying you have no problems and that its other people is kinda funny to say when you flushed your rad like 4 times more thoroughly then is normally recommended to people Maybe that extra flushing work was the reason it has no issues, and should also be recommended to others using them now.

[IanY]

I spend about 20 minutes tops cleaning my radiators lol

I don't lose sleep about nonsense like that.

[Zaskar]

I spend about 20 minutes tops cleaning my radiators lol

I don't lose sleep about nonsense like that.

20 minutes shaking, or with the power washer?

[IanY]

In total. The power washer goes for about 10 seconds.. and its enough

I doubt the shaking part lasts for more than 30 seconds.

I couldn't care less about cloudiness unless my tubes get clogged and the temps rise. I'm moving to Norprene. Don't really like R3400 because of its stiffness, and Tygon Silver is also stiff but its slightly better.

And I don't have rusty TC rads either. Mine have all taken massive water baths too... you can imagine the power washer..

Every 6 months, they get torned down and cleaned out too... with tap water...

[Zaskar]

In total. The power washer goes for about 10 seconds.. and its enough

I doubt the shaking part lasts for more than 30 seconds.

I couldn't care less about cloudiness unless my tubes get clogged and the temps rise. I'm moving to Norprene. Don't really like R3400 because of its stiffness, and Tygon Silver is also stiff but its slightly better.

Tube cloudiness shouldn't matter as long as its from plasticizer and not some other gunk, cause then that means its also coating the blocks and in the accelerator plate :P

I bought a foot of the 1/2" ID 3/4" OD Neoprene, its really cool yet weird stuff. It wants to spring back to the original shape even with the slightest bend. If you haven't yet get a foot or 2 before you buy the entire order just to make sure it will work for what you need it too.


And RRR then instead of just telling others having issues that it must be their fault, you might also want to mention in those condescending posts that you also spent the entire day cleaning the rads that your having no issues with. Like I said though, this only applies if you actually care about "helping" and not just kinda acting like your better.

Vinegar really should Not have any issues with the rad btw, its probably not needed and I wouldn't personally recommend it but it wont do Any damage unless left in there for hours.

[Zaskar]

Well that answers the question about whether or not you actually want to be constructive.

Please, continue crapping on threads, and insulting others like your some sort of expert.

[Bojamijams]

A little advice, you seriously need to watch your personal attacks. It's not kosher....

That was ironic.

[Xilikon]

R3, You don't have a problem because YOU TOOK A INORDINATE AMOUNT OF TIME TO CLEAN IT OFF !!!

Here's my own experience : I bought the TC radiator directly from the TC factory in the UK (cheaper than ordering from the US) and when I got it, I did a normal cleanup, flushing about 3-4 gallons of water and shaking a bit. I setup the loop and let it run without problems. 3 weeks later, the tubing is getting brown/greenish even if I used distilled water + PT Nuke only so I disassembled it, tried to flush the radiator just to notice the water is still trouble ! I spend the whole evening flushing it with BOILING WATER from the kettle, shaked it a lot and let it sit for 30 mins each time. I did it until the water coming out of the radiator in the glass is still transparent. After this, it works fine and the reservoir remained clean (I replaced the tubing with Tygon R-3400 at the same time).

Now, I recently bought a HWLabs Black Ice GTX 240 for my HTPC box and I did 40 mins of cleaning just to notice the water is almost always clean each time I flushed. I setup a test loop with all the components and after 1 month of running, it's still clean. This is what I expect TC to do and they are too lazy, despite the high price.

Beside the cleaning issue, I love the TC radiator and I'll keep it until it leak (not for 10 years for sure). Your attempts to defend based on YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE only is not necessarily a good idea because the majority will agree with me and navanod about the TC cleaning issue. Those who say that it's a issue with chemical reaction, I'm a strong believer of distilled water only with PT Nuke (1 drop per liter).

[Bojamijams]

Now, I recently bought a HWLabs Black Ice GTX 240 for my HTPC box and I did 40 mins of cleaning just to notice the water is almost always clean each time I flushed.

Same thing with my BIX 480GT. HWLabs does it right. Thermochill's QA is total and utter shyte.

[Zaskar]

Wait what? I was saying that this kind of cleaning should Not be seen as excessive and instead recommended for all who want to use these rads, instead of just telling people its their fault. You didn't apparently seem to agree in the post I assume you deleted at the bottom of the last page.

[sirheck]

Well that answers the question about whether or not you actually want to be constructive.

Please, continue crapping on threads, and insulting others like your some sort of expert.

The above has some truth to it.

[Martinm210]

Why can't Thermochill bloody sell clean radiators? I would gladly pay $20 more per radiator to avoid this whole hassle of flux and flushing.

No kidding...they should come flushed and clean already..

[Xilikon]

IYO, what I did to clean MY ThermoChill PA radiators, seems excessive to YOU...

I did my research, prior to choosing to spend MY $$$ on ThermoChill radiators. Therefore, I knew what I was going to do to clean them before I even bought them.

@Zaskar....

I believe I have repeatedly stated, contrary to your statements, what I did to clean my PA radiators, on multiple threads..??

If you don't want to spend time cleaning your radiator(s), prior to using them, then buy something besides ThermoChill radiators...

It's that easy.....

I bought it in fall 2007 and not a lot of people posted infos about how crappy TC did the flushing so most of us learned the hard way about this. You came here much later so you already have the previous experience of others so you know what you are getting

Now that TFC, HWLabs and Swiftech seems to be good alternatives by Martinm210's reviews, TC is now becoming a overpriced dirty radiator and this is a bit unacceptable. See Martinm210's comment above my post to show what I'm telling.

EDIT : To clarify my point, the beef with TC radiators is that others which is priced similarly or cheaper, are all much more cleaner than TC. For the price we pay, we expect them to do some good flushing, which would be easy to do since they also do leak checking.