Nehalem-EP......BLOOMFIELD

[Movieman]

pure fanboism? Core2 spanks K10 hard in some apps, but K10 spanks Core2 in other apps, nehalem is a future product, and altough we have seen many benchmarks of it, i haven seen any really good direct comparisons
but as always i didn\'t expect anything more from you


So you are aware of all changes in K10.5 (Shanghai) ?
You know how that extra L3 cache is gonna effect performance, and which minor tweaks this CPU has, please lend me your crystall ball

Which is why I offerred to compare my harpertowns which are a current product..
hell, I'll even drop the clocks from 3404 back to the stock 3000..

[Hornet331]

So you are aware of all changes in K10.5 (Shanghai) ?
You know how that extra L3 cache is gonna effect performance, and which minor tweaks this CPU has, please lend me your crystall ball

we allready saw spi on k10 which increased 10% afaik, lets asume this is best case so any other app will be less then 10% improvement which is enough to fight with kent/york but cant touch nehalem.

At least thats my impression from what i have seen so far on the web.

[bowman]

Which is why I offerred to compare my harpertowns which are a current product..
hell, I'll even drop the clocks from 3404 back to the stock 3000..

That would be interesting anyway to compare to Bloomfield and Gainestown, in these benches.

So I say go for it! (if you can spare the cycles )

[JCornell]

my point was a simple one. Since from what we've learned so far that Nehalem is superior to the current harpertown/yorkfield setups, I was offering to compare my 8 logical cores to yours. That's all.

Weird, just because Bloomfield show 8 thread in OS, then assumed it's pure 8 cores ... Isn't this what he saying from the beginning ??
Then Gainestown will be assume to 4 CPU's ?

[Jamesrt2004]

Which is why I offerred to compare my harpertowns which are a current product..
hell, I'll even drop the clocks from 3404 back to the stock 3000..

stop WCG for like 5 mins n do the benchiesssss

you know you want to

[JCornell]

That would be interesting anyway to compare to Bloomfield and Gainestown, in these benches.

So I say go for it! (if you can spare the cycles )

MovieMan and I are totally know where its go when downgrade Harpertown to 3GHz, Still no chances to compete Gainestown though except Harpertown has been OC to some clock.
He mentioned it before if you are noticing it ...

[Movieman]

That would be interesting anyway to compare to Bloomfield and Gainestown, in these benches.

So I say go for it! (if you can spare the cycles )

That I can do, just waiting for LIKMARK to determine the benches to be run.

Weird, just because Bloomfield show 8 thread in OS, then assumed it's pure 8 cores ... Isn't this what he saying from the beginning ??
Then Gainestown will be assume to 4 CPU's ?

JC: To be honest I'm a tad confused myself so I'm going to go and finish building my new system..
A dual Yonah.. Now there's one for you guys to laugh at.
2-2000/2mb/667 dual core 31w laptop chips on a $430.00 Intel EATX server board..
later..

[LIKMARK]

my point was a simple one. Since from what we've learned so far that Nehalem is superior to the current harpertown/yorkfield setups, I was offering to compare my 8 logical cores to yours. That's all.

Ah ok. For a moment there it seemed remarkably like: "I'm just letting you know mine is better than yours" but being a grown up person you wouldn't engage a conversation like that?? Thats kind of.. .

I would rather like that you compared them to nehalem bloomfields 4 logical and 4 virtual cores as this thread still is about nehalem, (isn't it?) but that's just me..

Edit: @MM: just run the benches in the charts to compare.

[Shintai]

pure fanboism? Core2 spanks K10 hard in some apps, but K10 spanks Core2 in other apps, nehalem is a future product, and altough we have seen many benchmarks of it, i haven seen any really good direct comparisons
but as always i didn\'t expect anything more from you


So you are aware of all changes in K10.5 (Shanghai) ?
You know how that extra L3 cache is gonna effect performance, and which minor tweaks this CPU has, please lend me your crystall ball

With luck it can beat Kentsfield. Maybe touch york sometimes. And nice new account.

Also the word K10.5 is terrible. Perhaps K10.1. 45nm and more cache. Go make a wish. Even if 45nm K10 jumps the same performance 65nm K10 did to K8. Then its still not a performance winner.

Nehalem is a product you have in 2months. 45nm K10 you might have on december 31st.

[STaRGaZeR]

I wondered how HT on nehalem performed, therefore I compared with my logical 8 threads system.

Then you should not compare it with your Barcelonas. Use Nehalem with HT on and off (if possible). You're still comparing 4 physical cores vs 8 physical cores. I count HT as an enhancement to the core, not as another core. AMD could do the same and 1 core will remain 1 core for me. Reality is, in most benchmarks 8 K10 cores lose to 4 Nehalem cores, each at full potential, that means HT on in Nehalem. That's sad.

[JCornell]

I would rather like that you compared them to nehalem bloomfields 4 logical and 4 virtual cores as this thread still is about nehalem, (isn't it?) but that's just me..

Nah ... again ... How in the hell Bloomfield 1CPUs is the same to Harpertown 2CPU's ??
See, this is what I meant, Bloomfield showed 8threads in OS, so this must be 2CPU's

[LIKMARK]

Then you should not compare it with your Barcelonas. Use Nehalem with HT on and off (if possible). You're still comparing 4 physical cores vs 8 physical cores. I count HT as an enhancement to the core, not as another core. AMD could do the same and 1 core will remain 1 core for me. Reality is, in most benchmarks 8 K10 cores lose to 4 Nehalem cores, each at full potential. That means HT on in Nehalem. That's sad.

Windows XP and Windows Vista counts "Ht-cores" as "another core", wouldn't it be safe to believe that the os uses the virtual core like if it was a physical core, isn't that what HT technology is all about? If not, please explain to me.

EDIT: I compared 8 threads to the 8 threads I have on my system, I don't see what is so wrong about that?? It's called multithreading, not multicpuusage or whatever. I wanted to see how Nealem Ht technology held up against my 8 threads (or cores, it dosen't matter to me, and I'm pretty sure it dosen't matter to the os when its multithreading if the threads is physical or virtual. It applies them the same way)

[Movieman]

Windows XP and Windows Vista counts "Ht-cores" as "another core", wouldn't it be safe to believe that the os uses the virtual core like if it was a physical core, isn't that what HT technology is all about? If not, please explain to me.

It may use it as if it was another core but it is not and I say that from experience. I have a 2005 SM X7DA8-G2 MB with 2-3600/2mb/800 single core Irwindales(netburst) cpu's in it.
In DC work running 4 WU at a time with HT turned on the machine would do app 20-30% more work than with HT turned off and doing 2 WU at a time.
An increase yes, but not even close to having an additional 2 real cores so to compare your 8 real cores against anything with 4 cores and HT is not a fair comparison.
This is exactly why I offered to compare my 8 core harpertown with your 8 core AMD machine in any group of benchmarks you choose.
Yes, I am aware that the AMD with it's on chip IMC will do some benches better but overall I think I'd squash it like a bug..
OOH, it's nice not to have to be diplomatic once in a while!

[bowman]

XP and Vista are 'SMT aware', they know what a 'fake' logical core is and actually take that into account. Not to say all software running would do that, though. They might use it as if it was an entire physical CPU.

http://www.2cpu.com/Hardware/ht_anal...rthreading.doc
http://www.intel.com/support/process.../CS-017343.htm

[LIKMARK]

@MM:

Yes, I am aware that the AMD with it's on chip IMC will do some benches better but overall I think I'd squash it like a bug..
OOH, it's nice not to have to be diplomatic once in a while!

lol, your'e a honest son of a b*** at least

Please do the benches in the chart, the more comparing systems the better imo.

As for the HT tech discussion, I do not advocate that it runs as efficient as another core, but as Intel is pretty proud of this "old crap - new package" thing called "new and better than last time" HT tech I wanted to test it up against 8 physical cores. I do not have a nehalem system, so I had to do with what I got. Good night

[Movieman]

@MM:


lol, your'e a honest son of a b*** at least

Please do the benches in the chart, the more comparing systems the better imo.

As for the HT tech discussion, I do not advocate that it runs as efficient as another core, but as Intel is pretty proud of this "old crap - new package" thing called "new and better than last time" HT tech I wanted to test it up against 8 physical cores. I do not have a nehalem system, so I had to do with what I got. Good night

Good night and remember one thing about me, if AMD tomorrow made a better mousetrap it would be in my house. I am only a fanboy of what is best.
Now is Intels time, next year it may be AMD's as it was 3 years ago and no one, I repeat no one, wishes them good fortune more than I do.

[STaRGaZeR]

LIKMARK, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyper-threading

You can't count or compare 4 cores with HT vs 8 cores. Even if in the XP or Vista task manager are listed as such.

[JCornell]

Good night and remember one thing about me, if AMD tomorrow made a better mousetrap it would be in my house. I am only a fanboy of what is best.
Now is Intels time, next year it may be AMD's as it was 3 years ago and no one, I repeat no one, wishes them good fortune more than I do.

, Good Morning for me
Continue to sleep, today is typhoon holiday

Are you intend to benchs it ? If so, just prepare to be commented :p :
1. Nah, that's just not the same clock
2. Oh, You have larger cache
3. OMG, is that 45nm ?
4. etc ... and etc ... :p

[Movieman]

I'll run the benches tomorrow at stock speed of 3000mhz
These are 80w E5450's..OEM's not Es's..
Board is a SM X7DWA-N
PCP+C 750w Silencer
4x1 gig DDR2-800 kingston HyperX FBDimms
Air cooled with my own cooling mix
single 36 gig raptor

[Jacky]

pure fanboism? Core2 spanks K10 hard in some apps, but K10 spanks Core2 in other apps, nehalem is a future product, and altough we have seen many benchmarks of it, i haven seen any really good direct comparisons
but as always i didn\'t expect anything more from you


So you are aware of all changes in K10.5 (Shanghai) ?
You know how that extra L3 cache is gonna effect performance, and which minor tweaks this CPU has, please lend me your crystall ball

I kinda wanted to report your post (so as not to feed the trolls and further derail this thread), but maybe it's not necessary, I'll give you a simple explanation why you are wrong: overall core 2 is superior, the benchmarks do not lie.
though, the uncore part (system interconnect) of k10 is superior to core 2, the most crucial part, the core, is not. k10 wins only in virtualisation and bandwidth heavy tasks. now what does nehalem improve on?

[informal]

we allready saw spi on k10 which increased 10% afaik, lets asume this is best case so any other app will be less then 10% improvement which is enough to fight with kent/york but cant touch nehalem.

At least thats my impression from what i have seen so far on the web.

Actually it increased 14%,but hey why say 14 when 10% sounds better in intel fanboy ears ?

[mstp2009]

Actually it increased 14%,but hey why say 14 when 10% sounds better in intel fanboy ears ?

It always amuses me to see you call someone a fanboy . . .

[Epsilon84]

Actually it increased 14%,but hey why say 14 when 10% sounds better in intel fanboy ears ?

Yeah, and that extra 4% is really gonna close the gap on Nehalem right?

You complained about people 'crapping' the Deneb threads, do you spot the irony?! I gotta admit though, its funny seeing a fanboy calling someone else a fanboy...

[Donnie27]

I wondered how HT on nehalem performed, therefore I compared with my logical 8 threads system.

I'm quite sure nehalem will cost more than my setup when it's out..

Got it in one After all I am not mad either, I would under no circumstances dump up to 800USD on two 2347's today..

Look up post number 804 - 807 and compare constructivness to your post, and we can discuss threadcrapping. How much time did it take you to write your post?
Three sec's I assume: One: copy BS post from some AMD thread you have threadcrapped, two: paste into this one, three: "submit reply".

Excuse me I do not understand your intent with this post. As I answered STaRGaZeR, I wondered how HT on nehalem performed, therefore I compared with my logical 8 threads system. I do not want a "showdown" with you. It was my intent to show something to compare nehalem with. This obviously is not something anyone here want to be done, so I'll remove them at once.

Please scroll up to my answer to Donnie27s post. The same applies for you.

You started thread crapping and 807 is a thread crap if there ever was one! If what went on in the Deneb thread is thread crapping then yours and others are just that=P

Your idea of trying to compare two Quad Cores to One breaks any rule of comparisons except for a Desperate AMD Fanboy move. This made even more lame by trying to down play costs. You do something silly like comparing used buggy items to products not shipping or even new is a bad joke

You and your buddies don't understand benchmarking, you don't get price to performance and it is just like I said, just win baby! Nehalem's price lists were given. No one is complaining about yours and other's post "Nit-Picking" because unlike those AMD threads, no one cares that you don't get it Nehalem doesn't need propaganda like K10 or whatever.

[Donnie27]

, Good Morning for me
Continue to sleep, today is typhoon holiday

Are you intend to benchs it ? If so, just prepare to be commented :p :
1. Nah, that's just not the same clock
2. Oh, You have larger cache
3. OMG, is that 45nm ?
4. etc ... and etc ... :p

According to at least 5 AMD fans posting in this thread, if you use both, you're still an Intel Fan. If you weren't an Intel Fanboy or Girl you'd only buy AMD=P

Most folks in this forum will buy Nehalem if it rocks but if AMD pulled something out of its anus, we'd be on it as well=P Just as I skipped Presshot and bought a 3500+.