Nehalem-EP......BLOOMFIELD

[informal]

I wouldn't trust Anand with anything hardware or software related .But i do believe Nehalem improves over C2 in 3DS.

[JCornell]

Also i know that people somehow think that SPI represents a valid test to show a strong fp perfromance (intel clearly owns this test),but there are programs that calculate Pi better on AMD hardware but i don't see anyone using these(http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&highlight=gmp).

B'cause SPI is the most popular test, Yeah for now Intel is leading on SPI, but what about the past, before C2D ( AMD clearly owned this test, right ?)

You mean MaxPI Multicore PI calc ? Never heard of it, so this is not strange if you don't see anyone using these ...

So @LIKMARK , this is saying that everyone is waiting for your Barcelona to show some MaxPI expression

[Bellisimo]

B\'cause SPI is the most popular test, Yeah for now Intel is leading on SPI, but what about the past, before C2D ( AMD clearly owned this test, right ?)

You mean MaxPI Multicore PI calc ? Never heard of it, so this is not strange if you don\'t see anyone using these ...

spi has always been intel\'s benchmark, even with netburst

[Hornet331]

Also i know that people somehow think that SPI represents a valid test to show a strong fp perfromance (intel clearly owns this test),but there are programs that calculate Pi better on AMD hardware but i don't see anyone using these(http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&highlight=gmp).

you mean gmp, which is compiled on gcc with k8 flag? way to go to gimp core2.

it would be the same as spi, you just complained about, only difference would be that it now would prefer amd instead of intel...

[informal]

you mean gmp, which is compiled on gcc with k8 flag? way to go to gimp core2.

it would be the same as spi, you just complained about, only difference would be that it now would prefer amd instead of intel...

Gimp core2
You can compile with appropriate flag if you want:
http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4....002d64-Options

[JCornell]

Gimp core2

I see ...

But now I'm just curios that JumpingJack saying about Phenom is always 10% faster than Core2 on MaxPI

[STaRGaZeR]

Please explain?

Well, The results speak for themselves. Also I don't know why are you comparing 8 cores vs 4 cores, even if Nehalem has 2 threads per core. The fair comparison is between Gainstown vs your dual Barcelonas. I'm not impressed with Nehalem single threaded perfomance because Core2 is already a monster there and this is only a little improvement, but in multi-threaded apps Nehalem destroys Phenom and Core2. I'd like to see how Shangai performs, but even if it ends 10% faster clock per clock than Barcelona it'd be still slower than a Yorkfield in most cases. In a server environment maybe they'll shine, but not in desktop.

[LIKMARK]

? Not sure if you were replying to me or not.

A thread doesn't mean anything, because the 8 threads in Nehalem don't cost you anything. Quad core Nehalem is fully comparable to Quad core Barcelona. DP Gainestown (8 cores) is fully comparable to DP Barcelona (8 cores).

According to boinc cpu test, ht seems to cost some performance.

Kind of weird why you compare the Bloomfield(High End Desktop, nearly WS) with your AMD Server ...

Yeap, you're right : thread is a thread, but need to differentiate a Physical Core and Logical Core, there're not the same

Asus L1N64WS/B is a WS board

So...because Nehalem supports SMT. You quickly say AMD is better because 2 Quadcores can compete with 1 quadcore?

Try 2 quads vs 2 quads. Or try see what a Bloomsfield cost vs those 2 2000 series Barcelonas.

1 Nehalem Quad@2.93Ghz beats 2 Barcelona Quads@2.4Ghz in Cinebench.
Not even to talk about Barcelona uses 64bit and Nehalem 32bit. (Nehalem would perform some 10% better with 64bit)
1 CPU vs 2 CPUs. 500$ vs 1500$

Or use the Gainestown with SMT disabled. About 50% faster than the dual Barcelonas at the same 2.4Ghz.

Actually those cpus cost me 100USD each, not 1500USD

Of course Gainstown is faster, as it should be, it's just that I don't think it is fast enough to recieve all the "omg wtf bbq" remarks and no critical approach to the numbers provided. That's the reason I compared in the first place.

Cinebench is a 3D rendering benchmark. So it is a good benchmark of how well these CPUs will perform with rendering. And I wouldn't say it favors Intel hardware at all. K8 actually isn't too far behind Conroe in Cinebench. Unfortunately K10 does very little to improve performance in Cinebench beyond adding more cores.

To me one of the most exciting things will be that a quad-core Nehalem overclocked to 4.0GHz will roughly equal the performance of 16 Barcelona cores @ 2.3GHz in Cinebench.... 4x Opteron 8356 is currently a $6,000 setup. A 4GHz Nehalem might be possible out of a $284 CPU.... and certainly the $999 XE part. Obviously you can't overclock a CPU when you are doing critical work, but the power that is going to be available to enthusiasts with Nehalem is quite amazing.

Guys.. Lets compare prices when they're out, and then the whole systems...

I wouldn't trust Anand with anything hardware or software related .But i do believe Nehalem improves over C2 in 3DS.

LOL +1

B'cause SPI is the most popular test, Yeah for now Intel is leading on SPI, but what about the past, before C2D ( AMD clearly owned this test, right ?)

You mean MaxPI Multicore PI calc ? Never heard of it, so this is not strange if you don't see anyone using these ...

So @LIKMARK , this is saying that everyone is waiting for your Barcelona to show some MaxPI expression

I'll check it out, just don't have time atm.

[bowman]

If there's a store beyond a friend's friend's discarded server equipment that sells Opteron Barcelonas for 500kr I would like a link.. But I'm guessing you got a 'special deal' here.

According to boinc cpu test, ht seems to cost some performance.

He doesn't mean performance, he means price. You can't compare two CPUs to one CPU because the price difference between a UP platform vs. a DP platform, Nehalem or not, is massive.

Perhaps the diagrams should've counted both cores and threads so we'd avoid this bickering?

[Extelleron]

If there's a store beyond a friend's friend's discarded server equipment that sells Opteron Barcelonas for 500kr I would like a link.. But I'm guessing you got a 'special deal' here.



He doesn't mean performance, he means price. You can't compare two CPUs to one CPU because the price difference between a UP platform vs. a DP platform, Nehalem or not, is massive.

Perhaps the diagrams should've counted both cores and threads so we'd avoid this bickering?

Pretty sure he got them on eBay. Pre-B3 Barcelonas are being dumped on eBay at pretty attractive prices. You can easily get an Opteron 2347 or 2344 HE for $100.

Heck looking now you can also buy 4x Opteron 8346 for $150 each. That would make a pretty interesting setup.

[Donnie27]

you mean gmp, which is compiled on gcc with k8 flag? way to go to gimp core2.

it would be the same as spi, you just complained about, only difference would be that it now would prefer amd instead of intel...

Nehalem will Rock because Core 2 Q already is.

Of course it wouldn't matter to AMD fans. It is only valid if the software or app favors AMD.

The only good reviewers are those who cripple the competition to make AMD look better. You know, these same folks who acted like they were Vampires and Optimized SSE software was a Cross or Garlic. I'm talking about off the shelf on the market software. Even if the software isn't on the market or readily available, nothing would change AMD fans view. "Just Win Baby". Doesn't matter if it is 4 vs 2 or the cost of 4 vs two, just win baby!

I do wonder where the mods who monitor thread crapping are? 6 weeks!

[Hornet331]

To make thing more clear i have add the number of CPUs used on each system in the charts (as bowman suggested).

[Movieman]

According to boinc cpu test, ht seems to cost some performance.

Asus L1N64WS/B is a WS board

Actually those cpus cost me 100USD each, not 1500USD

Of course Gainstown is faster, as it should be, it's just that I don't think it is fast enough to recieve all the "omg wtf bbq" remarks and no critical approach to the numbers provided. That's the reason I compared in the first place.

Guys.. Lets compare prices when they're out, and then the whole systems...

LOL +1


I'll check it out, just don't have time atm.

Can we assume that nehalem is an improvement over the yorkfields/harpertowns no matter what percentage it is?
If we assume that, then you pick a series of 3-4 benchmarks and you run with your AMD setup and I'll run with my "slower than Nehalem" Harpertown setup and we'll look at the results.
I am on air cooling and at 3404mhz so not "Xtreme" by anyones definition.
Fair enough?

[Shintai]

The tears is like ambrosia. Is this another "Core 2 is fake, Intel is using X2s" etc whine again like in 2006? Core 2 spanks K10 hard, Nehalem utterly destroys it. And thats not gonna change a single bit, not with 45nm K10s either. It seems some people are starting to sue every possible excuse. Now also compared 2 K10 quads vs 1 Nehalem quad to win some space with justifying its 8 threads vs 8 threads. Its pathetic and fanboysim beyond reason.

But again, 2009 will be a whole other game. And there will be the number 11 in it, but no K in front of it.

[Extelleron]

The tears is like ambrosia. Is this another "Core 2 is fake, Intel is using X2s" etc whine again like in 2006? Core 2 spanks K10 hard, Nehalem utterly destroys it. And thats not gonna change a single bit, not with 45nm K10s either. It seems some people are starting to sue every possible excuse. Now also compared 2 K10 quads vs 1 Nehalem quad to win some space with justifying its 8 threads vs 8 threads. Its pathetic and fanboysim beyond reason.

But again, 2009 will be a whole other game. And there will be the number 11 in it, but no K in front of it.

Lol, we'd better hope that doesn't happen though. AMD going bankrupt is the last thing the CPU industry needs. I don't think Intel would let it happen though. There is already quite a bit of investigation into Intel's activities (although I think it is all BS), imagine how much the gov would be breathing down Intel's back if AMD died....

[Shintai]

Lol, we'd better hope that doesn't happen though. AMD going bankrupt is the last thing the CPU industry needs. I don't think Intel would let it happen though. There is already quite a bit of investigation into Intel's activities (although I think it is all BS), imagine how much the gov would be breathing down Intel's back if AMD died....

Honestly, goverments would do nothing. But they would regulate prices if needed.

[Solus Corvus]

But again, 2009 will be a whole other game. And there will be the number 11 in it, but no K in front of it.

Ah, a prediction. These are so fun to come back to later.

[LIKMARK]

Well, The results speak for themselves. Also I don't know why are you comparing 8 cores vs 4 cores, even if Nehalem has 2 threads per core. The fair comparison is between Gainstown vs your dual Barcelonas. I'm not impressed with Nehalem single threaded perfomance because Core2 is already a monster there and this is only a little improvement, but in multi-threaded apps Nehalem destroys Phenom and Core2. I'd like to see how Shangai performs, but even if it ends 10% faster clock per clock than Barcelona it'd be still slower than a Yorkfield in most cases. In a server environment maybe they'll shine, but not in desktop.

I wondered how HT on nehalem performed, therefore I compared with my logical 8 threads system.

He doesn't mean performance, he means price. You can't compare two CPUs to one CPU because the price difference between a UP platform vs. a DP platform, Nehalem or not, is massive.

I'm quite sure nehalem will cost more than my setup when it's out..

Pretty sure he got them on eBay. Pre-B3 Barcelonas are being dumped on eBay at pretty attractive prices. You can easily get an Opteron 2347 or 2344 HE for $100.

Heck looking now you can also buy 4x Opteron 8346 for $150 each. That would make a pretty interesting setup.

Got it in one After all I am not mad either, I would under no circumstances dump up to 800USD on two 2347's today..

Nehalem will Rock because Core 2 Q already is.

Of course it wouldn't matter to AMD fans. It is only valid if the software or app favors AMD.

The only good reviewers are those who cripple the competition to make AMD look better. You know, these same folks who acted like they were Vampires and Optimized SSE software was a Cross or Garlic. I'm talking about off the shelf on the market software. Even if the software isn't on the market or readily available, nothing would change AMD fans view. "Just Win Baby". Doesn't matter if it is 4 vs 2 or the cost of 4 vs two, just win baby!

I do wonder where the mods who monitor thread crapping are? 6 weeks!

Look up post number 804 - 807 and compare constructivness to your post, and we can discuss threadcrapping. How much time did it take you to write your post?
Three sec's I assume: One: copy BS post from some AMD thread you have threadcrapped, two: paste into this one, three: "submit reply".

Can we assume that nehalem is an improvement over the yorkfields/harpertowns no matter what percentage it is?
If we assume that, then you pick a series of 3-4 benchmarks and you run with your AMD setup and I'll run with my "slower than Nehalem" Harpertown setup and we'll look at the results.
I am on air cooling and at 3404mhz so not "Xtreme" by anyones definition.
Fair enough?

Excuse me I do not understand your intent with this post. As I answered STaRGaZeR, I wondered how HT on nehalem performed, therefore I compared with my logical 8 threads system. I do not want a "showdown" with you. It was my intent to show something to compare nehalem with. This obviously is not something anyone here want to be done, so I'll remove them at once.

The tears is like ambrosia. Is this another "Core 2 is fake, Intel is using X2s" etc whine again like in 2006? Core 2 spanks K10 hard, Nehalem utterly destroys it. And thats not gonna change a single bit, not with 45nm K10s either. It seems some people are starting to sue every possible excuse. Now also compared 2 K10 quads vs 1 Nehalem quad to win some space with justifying its 8 threads vs 8 threads. Its pathetic and fanboysim beyond reason.

But again, 2009 will be a whole other game. And there will be the number 11 in it, but no K in front of it.

Please scroll up to my answer to Donnie27s post. The same applies for you.

[Shintai]

I'm quite sure nehalem will cost more than my setup when it's out..

I think the word "Out of education reach" can be used here.

You can get 2.66Ghz Nehalems for 286$ at launch in about 2 months.

[LIKMARK]

Yes and you'll have your brand new board and 6 gigs of DDR3 ram to utilize triple channel for free?

[Hornet331]

i think 286$ is a bit low... maybe in the 300-400$ region, which is still damn cheap (at least in euro land), but if it is really 286$ i have nothing against it.

who said, you need the tripple channel, you also can run it as dual channle i think 21gb/s is enough.
also i think 190€ for 6gb ddr3 1333 isnt that expensive.

thought for myself i aim for 12gb (cause 2x2gb ddr31800 is allready at 180€ and in 2-3 months im sure well see moduels for 150€ so 450€ total is not that bad, especial when i compare it to my current 1x2gb ddr3, which i have bought for 360€. )

[JCornell]

Of course it wouldn't matter to AMD fans. It is only valid if the software or app favors AMD.

The only good reviewers are those who cripple the competition to make AMD look better. You know, these same folks who acted like they were Vampires and Optimized SSE software was a Cross or Garlic. I'm talking about off the shelf on the market software. Even if the software isn't on the market or readily available, nothing would change AMD fans view. "Just Win Baby". Doesn't matter if it is 4 vs 2 or the cost of 4 vs two, just win baby!

Totally agreed ...

[Movieman]

Excuse me I do not understand your intent with this post. As I answered STaRGaZeR, I wondered how HT on nehalem performed, therefore I compared with my logical 8 threads system. I do not want a "showdown" with you. It was my intent to show something to compare nehalem with. This obviously is not something anyone here want to be done, so I'll remove them at once.

my point was a simple one. Since from what we've learned so far that Nehalem is superior to the current harpertown/yorkfield setups, I was offering to compare my 8 logical cores to yours. That's all.

[Bellisimo]

Core 2 spanks K10 hard, Nehalem utterly destroys it.

pure fanboism? Core2 spanks K10 hard in some apps, but K10 spanks Core2 in other apps, nehalem is a future product, and altough we have seen many benchmarks of it, i haven seen any really good direct comparisons
but as always i didn\'t expect anything more from you

And thats not gonna change a single bit, not with 45nm K10s either.

So you are aware of all changes in K10.5 (Shanghai) ?
You know how that extra L3 cache is gonna effect performance, and which minor tweaks this CPU has, please lend me your crystall ball

[JCornell]

i think 286 is a bit low... maybe in the 300-400$ region, which is still damn cheap (at least in euro land).

who said, you need the tripple channel, you also can run it as dual channle i think 21gb/s is enough.

thought for myself i aim for 12gb

Now I confused of all his posted ...
First talking about Performance, then now is talking about price ??? ...

I think someone is confusing about the differences from Bloomfield & Gainestown ?