ATI Radeon HD 4000 Series discussion

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

both mine have plastic spacers between the metal and pcb and all of these spacers rest on blank pcb and don't touch any contacts

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

Ok fair enough.

I'm seriously considering delaying my purchase until these issues are sorted out, and the root cause of the problem found.

20 bucks on it being the Quimonda ram, same as 8800gt

[spursindonesia]

I'm happy to report that in my local IT forum in which i'm one of the mod there (forum.chip.co.id), HD 48xx series have swept in and captured many gamers attention & interest in having them. To help the matter, HD 4850 (220 US$) & 4870 (325 US$) are reasonably priced here, compared to ATi historical pricing policy, while 9800 GTX is still priced to the sky, mostly in the 320+ US$ range, and the retailers here don't expect the price to go down, atleast until the old stocks are gone and the new stocks of 9800 GTX+ arrive.

Not before long, i expect ATi to capture back & dominate the upper mainstream & performance segment here in Indonesia -too bad, the mainstream & low end segments are still held quite solidly by nVidia, courtesy of their successful 9600 GT and 8600 GT series, which are priced nicely compared to ATi competing products in my country.

[revogamer]

20 bucks on it being the Quimonda ram, same as 8800gt

nothing wrong with the quimonda ram on my 4850 so far. over a week with lots of stress

[Shakti]

I think the main reason for posts about problems with ATI cards is that they sell like never before:

The Top 10 of the biggest german price search engine:


1. Sapphire Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0, bulk/lite retail (21133-00-10/20R)
2. Sapphire Radeon HD 4850, 512MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0, bulk/lite retail (21132-00-10/20R)
3. PowerColor Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (A77F-TE3)
4. PowerColor Radeon HD 4850, 512MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (A77C-PE3)
5. Sapphire Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0, full retail (21133-00-40R)
6. ASUS ENGTX280/HTDP, GeForce GTX 280, 1024MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (90-C3CGE0-L0UAY00T)
7. ASUS EAH4870/HTDI, Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (90-C3CGH0-J0UAY00T)
8. ASUS EAH4850/HTDI, Radeon HD 4850, 512MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (90-C3CGG0-J0UAY00T)
9. Club 3D Radeon HD 4850, 512MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (CGAX-4852DD)
10. MSI R4870-T2D512, Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (V803-279R)

and by the way, my 8800GTX died 2 month ago, always on stock speed, and because MSI refuses to repair the card because of a missing sticker, my next will probably be a ATI 4870x2.

[initialised]

I don't understand people like you who buy a product and need to bash all other product.

There is a psychological explanation, it happens at all sorts of levels. It is also the reason that the planet will not unite until we get invaded by aliens. We retroactively justify the choices we make and is similar to both snobbery and inverted snobbery. Basically if you buy an nVidia card then you become a member of the nVidia 'in group', it happened to me with my G92 GTS. Basically, you boost your ego and justify your decision by deriding those who disagree especially if they belong to a rival 'in-group', in this case ATi fanboys. Though I expect that Intel will be bashed by both nVidia and ATi fanboys.

[Hornet331]

I think the main reason for posts about problems with ATI cards is that they sell like never before:

The Top 10 of the biggest german price search engine:


1. Sapphire Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0, bulk/lite retail (21133-00-10/20R)
2. Sapphire Radeon HD 4850, 512MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0, bulk/lite retail (21132-00-10/20R)
3. PowerColor Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (A77F-TE3)
4. PowerColor Radeon HD 4850, 512MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (A77C-PE3)
5. Sapphire Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0, full retail (21133-00-40R)
6. ASUS ENGTX280/HTDP, GeForce GTX 280, 1024MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (90-C3CGE0-L0UAY00T)
7. ASUS EAH4870/HTDI, Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (90-C3CGH0-J0UAY00T)
8. ASUS EAH4850/HTDI, Radeon HD 4850, 512MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (90-C3CGG0-J0UAY00T)
9. Club 3D Radeon HD 4850, 512MB GDDR3, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (CGAX-4852DD)
10. MSI R4870-T2D512, Radeon HD 4870, 512MB GDDR5, 2x DVI, TV-out, PCIe 2.0 (V803-279R)

and by the way, my 8800GTX died 2 month ago, always on stock speed, and because MSI refuses to repair the card because of a missing sticker, my next will probably be a ATI 4870x2.

that list is useless, it only shows what has the most views on certain day, not sales.

[initialised]

hey guys,

just got my HD4850 a few days ago. still doing some tests but i seriously cannot believe how sucky that cooler is. not only does it cool bad in idle, it doesnt even seem to spin up in 3D mark or anything wich is causing hangs. cant even oc it to 1000MHz memory without having crashes in 3Dmark06.
i am running an E8200 @ 4GHz and i get scores like 12500-ish witch seems way too low.
geuss i have to get another heatsink...another 25€ down the drain.

We got a similar score with a single 4850 and an E8400 @ 4GHz so it is spot on. As far as I can tell the cooler is tuned for quiet operation. The fan on my second 4850 is not spinning at all when the card is not in use but still manages to idle at 61C. What we need is for ATi tool and ATi Tray Tools to be updated for these cards and to work under Vista64.

[gojirasan]

We retroactively justify the choices we make and is similar to both snobbery and inverted snobbery.

I don't do that. Making sure that my judgements are not based on emotion is very important to me. In fact I am generally more interested in proving myself wrong than proving myself right. Also I have noticed other people here who don't seem to care what the writing on some circuit board that sits in a closed computer case happens to be. I was just thinking about a name for those of us who just don't care. Maybe something like "tech whores". I have NO loyalty whatsoever to any of these tech companies. In any competitive industry, usually one company will have the edge for a while, and then it will be the opposite for a while and so forth. But the bottom line is I would jump ship to either company for a 5fps advantage in benchmarks. Sorry, but I just don't understand the kind of loyalty you are talking about. Why is "feeling good" more important than the truth?

I have to say that in this context, I think that AMD is in a much better position than NVidia. AMD/ATI is the underdog that really seems to make fanboys drool. I have never seen such devotion. AMD right or wrong. They would never buy either Intel or Nvidia. Ever. It would be like cheating on their wife. AMD is very lucky to have those loyal customers: the guys who are running Phenoms and a AMD chipsets and HD3870s. For whatever reason Nvidia seems harder to love. They don't seem to inspire devotion in the same way. Maybe it's like the Mac vs. PC thing. PC users just don't "love" their computers in the same way that Mac users do.

In a lot of ways it is understandable. Nvidia has been behaving like a bunch of jackasses lately. Only enabling SLI on their own motherboards, bickering with Intel, the 9800GTX naming fiasco, releasing utterly unreliable and slow chipsets and charging insanely high prices for them.

[Logos]

not sure that will bring anything to this thread, anyway: I started to develop bad feelings against NVidia when they acquired 3DFX, which resulted in 3DFX disappearing from the market. My first PC, back in 1998, had a Voodoo (1), together with an ATI (2D) and that was fantastic at the time. 3DFX invented SLI...what NVidia has done with it... well you all know what I'm talking about forcing people to buy their bloody motherboard chipset to run their graphic cards in SLI again (ending with Nehalem hopefully )

I was actually glad when ATI took over the market of high-end graphic cards back in 2002 with the 9700, and then with the X800 and the X1900 series. No need to add how satisfied I am to see them back on track now with the 4000 series I actually held AMD responsible for the ATI disaster during the last two years...changing my mind now, but will still stick to Intel

[ceevee]

Ok look at this. I'm not a fanbooy for either camp, but i've got a 4870 on pre-order. We are losing cards with flashed bios, software OC and at stock. This thread contains most of the cases:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=192759

And here are two posts of ppl who had a card die on them before even overclocking:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...7&postcount=17

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...postcount=3956

There's obviously something going on, so lets not stick our heads in the sand.

Thanks for also posting the truth.

Some of these people must have shrines to AMD they worship in their homes lol. If you mention anything that says AMD is not perfect and the best thing ever they will attack you personally like little 5 year old kids.

[perkam]

The truth is that 4800 series is having major major failure problems.

Major problem is at least 10% of cards.

With the volume of cards shipped by ATI/Nvidia in their launch weeks alone, the number of dead cards have yet to surpass the number of Gigabyte motherboards that have to be RMAd at launch

Seriously, we're talking about less than 1% of 1% that flash the bios that have their cards die. Out of that, even a smaller percentage are reporting non-bios related deaths.

Some have three 4870s working in crossfire with overclocks just fine.

Perkam

[safan80]

Major problem is at least 10% of cards.

With the volume of cards shipped by ATI/Nvidia in their launch weeks alone, the number of dead cards have yet to surpass the number of Gigabyte motherboards that have to be RMAd at launch

Perkam

so very true.

[Unbornchild]

20 bucks on it being the Quimonda ram, same as 8800gt

Why not their PSU, motherboard? What do you know???

[Shakti]

@ Hornet331:

AMD expected to grab 40% discrete graphics card market share in 3Q08

http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20080627PD209.html

[RaZz!]

that list is useless, it only shows what has the most views on certain day, not sales.

well, i wouldn't call it useless. even if it doesn't show the amount of cards bought, it still shows that there's a huge demand regarding ati's 4000 series.

that's definately a good thing for amd/ati

i'm still thinking about picking up a 4850. but i dunno if my cpu would limit it too much - i just want higher fps in higher res, that's why i think it could work out a new rig with cpu is planned for the end of 2008

[mascaras]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...89#post3100889

[Hornet331]

@ Hornet331:

AMD expected to grab 40% discrete graphics card market share in 3Q08

http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20080627PD209.html

i counter with that:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/d...ds_Makers.html

one quartar is a very small time frame. I dont expect that the 4800 series has a hughe impact on the 3Q, but im sure we see some changes in 2009.

[perkam]

i counter with that:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/d...ds_Makers.html

one quartar is a very small time frame. I dont expect that the 4800 series has a hughe impact on the 3Q, but im sure we see some changes in 2009.

Technically, NV won't have a direct competitor until Q4, so the estimate should round out to 40% by then.

The point here is that the interest in ATI's cards has peaked for the first time in a VERY long time (since 2003 in fact). With AIBs losing NV exclusivity and NV having trouble with product line balancing due to the need for a return on its D10U architecture, the market is evening up between the two competitors.

All ATI now has to do is supply the demand, which AMD has been known to falter on from time to time.

Perkam

[Caveman787]

Whatever there yield I hope they gain back strength because these cards show that they still got alot of fight in them and is bringing back real competition to the market.

Can't wait to see what 4850, 4870 and 4870X2 or R700 can do when they're able to be fully overclocked.

[ceevee]

Technically, NV won't have a direct competitor until Q4, so the estimate should round out to 40% by then.

The point here is that the interest in ATI's cards has peaked for the first time in a VERY long time (since 2003 in fact). With AIBs losing NV exclusivity and NV having trouble with product line balancing due to the need for a return on its D10U architecture, the market is evening up between the two competitors.

All ATI now has to do is supply the demand, which AMD has been known to falter on from time to time.

Perkam

Sad to say I have been getting quite a few BSOD on 790i SLI today.

Part of me wants to put the Blackops back in and order a couple 4870 to try, but it seems both ATI and NV having some probs atm.

[perkam]

Sad to say I have been getting quite a few BSOD on 790i SLI today.

Part of me wants to put the Blackops back in and order a couple 4870 to try, but it seems both ATI and NV having some probs atm.

Yeps. Waiting to hear from AIBs on the issue.

Perkam

[flopper]

The point here is that the interest in ATI's cards has peaked for the first time in a VERY long time (since 2003 in fact).

Perkam

the act to go multigpu and get amd to aquire have done some good.

[Helmore]

AMD didn't have much to with their decision though, might have some effect in the implementation but they would have done it even without AMD. Not to say that AMD has thus far only been a burden to ATI, which is what quite a couple of guys have been saying, AMD has done more good than wrong for ATI thus far.

[Caveman787]

I don't think it's major but there are some issues like the fan speed and CCC overdrive oc's limiting way to much.

But they'll be rectified soon enough specially if normal people are finding ways around them.