ATI Radeon HD 4000 Series discussion

[clayton]

After hearing the price for nVIDIA's best, I actually want ATI to murder them just for me :P

[003]

It doesn't work like that. Look at G80->G92. It went from 90 to 65 (same steps as the GT200 shrink) BUT was still crazy big (320-330mm2) and that was with 2 64-bit mem controllers taken.


GT200 won't shrink well. At least the memory bus won't. Even with that out of the way (256 bit), they will still be seeing 350+mm^2 per chip (not the big deal) and 120-150W per chip (BIG deal)

What in the hell is it with everybody criticizing GPUs for using a lot of power?! This is XTREME systems for christ's sake!! Someone said it would be crazy to make a GTX280GX2 because it would have a TDP of 300+W

Ok. WHO THE HECK CARES?!

If you buy two cards for SLI, it will probably use even more power than a single one with dual GPUs! It's no secret that you can't stick these cards in your grandfather's solitaire PC with it's 250W noname PSU. Why is it that now everybody is making such a fuss over this?

[natty]

Why is it that now everybody is making such a fuss over this?

That's their way of killing the time between now and June 16th.

[Macadamia]

What in the hell is it with everybody criticizing GPUs for using a lot of power?! This is XTREME systems for christ's sake!! Someone said it would be crazy to make a GTX280GX2 because it would have a TDP of 300+W

Ok. WHO THE HECK CARES?!

If you buy two cards for SLI, it will probably use even more power than a single one with dual GPUs! It's no secret that you can't stick these cards in your grandfather's solitaire PC with it's 250W noname PSU. Why is it that now everybody is making such a fuss over this?

We were talking about GX2 and whether it was going to be viable with GT200 or not

[LordEC911]

It doesn't work like that. Look at G80->G92. It went from 90 to 65 (same steps as the GT200 shrink) BUT was still crazy big (320-330mm2) and that was with 2 64-bit mem controllers taken.


GT200 won't shrink well. At least the memory bus won't. Even with that out of the way (256 bit), they will still be seeing 350+mm^2 per chip (not the big deal) and 120-150W per chip (BIG deal)

Actually it does work like that and there is a reason I put that "~" there.
Remember that G92 has onboard Nvio...

[adamsleath]

did anyone else shrink plastic potato chip packets (inda oven) and make shrinky versions?

[003]

We were talking about GX2 and whether it was going to be viable with GT200 or not

I misread, and missed several preceding posts. That was my bad, sorry. But there still are people criticizing the GTX280 over it's TDP which is ridiculous.

Also, I would welcome a GX2 version of the GTX280, as I have an x48 motherboard, there is no other way for me to get SLI.

[Calmatory]

What in the hell is it with everybody criticizing GPUs for using a lot of power?! This is XTREME systems for christ's sake!! Someone said it would be crazy to make a GTX280GX2 because it would have a TDP of 300+W

Ok. WHO THE HECK CARES?!

If you buy two cards for SLI, it will probably use even more power than a single one with dual GPUs! It's no secret that you can't stick these cards in your grandfather's solitaire PC with it's 250W noname PSU. Why is it that now everybody is making such a fuss over this?

Because people actually BUY these cards to USE them other than do 3DMARK RUNS with LN2 and DRY ICE. Thats what those cards are MADE FOR. They aren't made for GAMING really, more for SHOWING OFF and to gain the BRAGGING RIGHTS.

No one forces anyone to buy these cards. Some people care about silence, and now you may tell me how are you going to gain silence with card which consumes +230 watts. Water. But to have this card + silence you need water. So to get this card + silence would cost you around $800-1000.

Well, I am quite sure you don't agree with me. If this is so XTREMESYSTEMS, why to discuss anything related to air cooling anyway? Why to discuss A64's, or low-end or mid range cards? Ban those poor bastards and let the SPONSORED do their PR runs for their favourite company. Yes, would be boring. Now you agree with me, I know it.

[clonez]

http://www.hardware-aktuell.com/view...hp?article=822

notice the drilling holes

gpus much closer together than on 3870 x2, so theres a good chance there isnt a bridge chip

suggested MSRP of 350-450$ is kinda low, too (big garin of salt there)

[roadie]

Nice to see we're back on topic after all that non related discussion.

There is actually quite a lot of discussion over at B3D as to what the final specs of the card will be. I am fairly certain that it will have 32 TMUs and 480SP, but there is talk of double z-fillrate too...

[003]

Because people actually BUY these cards to USE them other than do 3DMARK RUNS with LN2 and DRY ICE. Thats what those cards are MADE FOR. They aren't made for GAMING really, more for SHOWING OFF and to gain the BRAGGING RIGHTS.

No one forces anyone to buy these cards. Some people care about silence, and now you may tell me how are you going to gain silence with card which consumes +230 watts. Water. But to have this card + silence you need water. So to get this card + silence would cost you around $800-1000.

Well, I am quite sure you don't agree with me. If this is so XTREMESYSTEMS, why to discuss anything related to air cooling anyway? Why to discuss A64's, or low-end or mid range cards? Ban those poor bastards and let the SPONSORED do their PR runs for their favourite company. Yes, would be boring. Now you agree with me, I know it.

Yeah they are for gaming, no cards out today can play all the latest games at high res, full graphics and quality AA.

[Tim]

Yeah they are for gaming, no cards out today can play Crysis at high res, full graphics and quality AA.

*Fixed

All other games run well enough.

[Calmatory]

Yeah they are for gaming, no cards out today can play all the latest games at high res, full graphics and quality AA.

Who cares about the latest games anyway?

[situman]

[QUOTE=003;3024174]This is XTREME systems for christ's sake!! QUOTE]

I thought XTREME means extreme overclocking via extreme methods. I don't know where the buying only the highest end hardware comes from, extreme lack of common sense? I dunno, I'm just guessing. I thought overclocking started from buying the lowest end hardware and achieving or even surpassing what the manufacturer has to offer at the high end. It all began with overclocking Celerons...

[ownage]

[QUOTE=situman;3025440]

This is XTREME systems for christ's sake!! QUOTE]

I thought XTREME means extreme overclocking via extreme methods. I don't know where the buying only the highest end hardware comes from, extreme lack of common sense? I dunno, I'm just guessing. I thought overclocking started from buying the lowest end hardware and achieving or even surpassing what the manufacturer has to offer at the high end. It all began with overclocking Celerons...

Agreed. For me overclocking means raping cheap hardware.

[conzymaher]

Agreed. For me overclocking means raping cheap hardware.

idd

QX9650 ~ 850 euro
Asus Maximus Extreme ~ 250 euro
9800GX2 ~ 450 euro

Abit IP35 Pro, q6600 from ebay @ 3.6ghz and an 8800gt that cost 350 euro giving greater CPU performance and similar gaming performance? ~ PRICELESS!!!

[Leeghoofd]

Who cares about the latest games anyway?

If you don't, no need to be in this thread then, as current cards play all older games fine...

idd

QX9650 ~ 850 euro
Asus Maximus Extreme ~ 250 euro
9800GX2 ~ 450 euro

Abit IP35 Pro, q6600 from ebay @ 3.6ghz and an 8800gt that cost 350 euro giving greater CPU performance and similar gaming performance? ~ PRICELESS!!!

Could be... depending on what res you prefer to play and what you are doing with the Qx (leave it at stock I doubt it )

[AliG]

[QUOTE=situman;3025440]

This is XTREME systems for christ's sake!! QUOTE]

I thought XTREME means extreme overclocking via extreme methods. I don't know where the buying only the highest end hardware comes from, extreme lack of common sense? I dunno, I'm just guessing. I thought overclocking started from buying the lowest end hardware and achieving or even surpassing what the manufacturer has to offer at the high end. It all began with overclocking Celerons...

Generally to do extreme overclocking you'll need some extreme grade hardware, as in a phase change single stage or better, ln2/dice tubes, proper insulation, etc. You can set a world record with performance grade hardware, but I don't consider air or water cooling extreme by any means

[generics_user]

[QUOTE=AliG;3025614]

Generally to do extreme overclocking you'll need some extreme grade hardware, as in a phase change single stage or better, ln2/dice tubes, proper insulation, etc. You can set a world record with performance grade hardware, but I don't consider air or water cooling extreme by any means

depends on the watercooling

getting some insane clocks with ghetto cooling is xtreme too

xtreme is to clock your stuff to the limits, no matter how much $$ you can spend on the hardware or the cooling, it has nothing to do with the hardware you can buy, overclocking some low end cpu to the limit is just as extreme as doing this with a high end one.

the closer you get to the limit of what you have the more extreme it is

the new cooler drawing for the 4870X2 is interesting, maybe they really changed the way the x2 is working (integrating a switch into the gpus???, giving them a pciex8 2.0 interface for direct interconnect/better syncing???)

16 days until we find out...

[AliG]

See the thing is, while you don't have to spend a lot of money, to truly be extreme (which means to go far above and beyond the others) when you are in a forum like this, then you do need some serious kick ass cooling. If this was toms hardware on the other hand (even the mods there are total n00bs, wasted almost a year there before I came here), then I can see water and air cooling being extreme.

I can overclock my low end amd dual core by 60% (2ghz to 3.2ghz), while a nice oc, still not extreme. So I judge myself by the same standards I judge others in case you guys were wondering.

But enough of this, lets get back to ATI, and yeah I guess all we can do is wait another 10 days or so until the Chinese sites get their cards :/

[Nuker_]

Who cares about the latest games anyway?

I can see the sarcasm in your post. Or wait, are you serious?

[AliG]

I can see the sarcasm in your post. Or wait, are you serious?

I'm confused..


But look at Calamatory's general posting and I think you'll know which it is

[aiya]

[QUOTE=ownage;3025488]

Agreed. For me overclocking means raping cheap hardware.

QFT all the way. theres nothing more satisfying that getting more performance on budget parts. call me old skool

anyway, these ATI cards look nice. if the price is right and numbers hold true, it might be worth an upgrade.

[Calmatory]

If you don't, no need to be in this thread then, as current cards play all older games fine...

So this thread is for gamers, right?

You don't want to answer that one.

I can see the sarcasm in your post. Or wait, are you serious?

I am. People are telling how PC gaming is dying, blaming consoles about it but then they whine how the current hardware can't run games which are "ruined because of consoles" etc. Makes me very confused.

[Gir92]

I'm hoping that the added TMUs will help the sub-par AA performance that the 2900 and 3800 series suffered from.

Any word on that yet? I'm an admitted AA whore.