HuH?Originally Posted by DilTech
The MUL was only WORKING ~33% of the time...
Which is why the Flops for the G80 was actually ~346GFlops.
Now you add back in the missing MUL and you "magically" get a 50% increase.
Hmmmm.... not that hard.
HuH?
The MUL was only WORKING ~33% of the time...
Which is why the Flops for the G80 was actually ~346GFlops.
Now you add back in the missing MUL and you "magically" get a 50% increase.
Hmmmm.... not that hard.
That 650 dollar gaming pc must be a true rocker i!f you think it can reach 80%... if you felt insulted sorry for that, but I would like to know in which country you live in as even for my Voodoo 12mb I payed more than 350dollars and that's a long long time ago...if I quickly recalculate that with my salary then and the past money value must be around 450 dollars ...Must be PCwonderland... Secondly noone forces you to buy the latest and the fastest, if you can go with a vidcard for 3 years, good for you...Thirdly some peeps don't want to risk the OC like most of us do and just want the fastest thing out of the box...
On my part I just sell my hardware to friends and co for a very fair price and just add some to get better hardware just to mess with and bench on... for gaming I could still play on my 7900GTX's at medium and low detail settings if I wanted, but for benching I need more... and as a PC assembler it's nice to show new stuff at LANS and co...
We all noted that you find the price unfair, so be it. No need to hump om each post and rub it in, over and over again... for single card users, these cards might be great if they deliver... no hassles for SLI, can be run on cheapo mobo's, easier cooling setups (thinking of water), etc... Also dual chip or SLI or Crossfire are nice things but can be plagued by bad drivers and for me never ever again after my 7950X2 experience and the micro stuttering issues with my 7900GTX's... I stick with a single card setup for gaming...
Think of me what ya want, I really don't care Tigro... Think the number of post that react on ya statements tell the story... If you calculate everything price/ratio you are in the wrong sector, even when you buy ya pc and walk out of the shop your rig is already dated and/or devaluated...
Last edited by Leeghoofd; 05-28-2008 at 12:47 PM.
Question : Why do some overclockers switch into d*ckmode when money is involved
Remark : They call me Pro AsusSaaya yupp, I agree
I live in the U.S., perhaps things are more expensive over in Belgium, I don't know. However, here you can build an 8800GT-512 SLI rig for around $650 without much effort mostly from newegg. Anyone who doesn't calculate price/performance on any purchase, except pure benchers with money bleeding out their ears who care about performance at any cost, is a fool and likely to run into financial trouble as they likely apply it to everything in their life, money be damned. By the way, it's "Tiger," not "Tigro."
EDIT:
Here's an example build I found and made in five minutes of work, if you wanted to meet my target of $650 you could just drop the CPU to a lower-end dual core and you'd be a scant amount over it with a CPU such as an Allendale for $60-70 oc'd to 3.0ghz or so... this is a quad-core rig with near-GX2 performance, 2GB ram, real motherboard/case/psu/etc., plenty of storage, etc. (hard drive could be shaven down too a few bucks such as a $30-40 200-250gb jobbie). It adds up to $662 with a dual-core CPU, $642 with a smaller hard drive and a dual-core CPU, or as shown $792. So, please try to tell me that for anyone but a hardcore bencher, again that $650 is not a lot for one computer's part?
Q6600 $200 when added to cart http://shop2.frys.com/product/5101696
Motherboard with X-Fi sound onboard $140-30rebate=110 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130080
2gb 1-stick RAM module PC2-6400 $35 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820609283
Rosewill case w/ free shipping ATX (non-junky) $39 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811147088
Rosewill 550w SLI PSU well-rated on various real review sites $65 shipped http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182090
2x 8800GT 512 video cards in SLI mode, various, example $160-30rebate=130x2=$260 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121224
DVD burner, various Lite-On/etc. drives $23 w/ free shipping example http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106228
hard drive 500gb 7200.11 Seagate $60 shipped via various specials every week or two at various vendors
Last edited by GoldenTiger; 05-28-2008 at 01:15 PM.
We can't do that. I don't know about Belgium, I expect it's similar there and across Europe, but here are some prices for you:
http://www.netshop.no/aspx/produkt/p...spx?plid=44579
Q6600 307.909 USD
http://www.netshop.no/aspx/produkt/p...spx?plid=93181
ASUS 8800GT 512MB 277.214 USD for one
That's over 850 dollars for the quad+SLI setup, without even getting into mobo, RAM, case, PSU, DVD, HDD..
Also, the 9800GX2 costs $750 here so I'd expect these cards to debut at something like that as well.
If only newegg shipped here.. Even with the transatlantic shipping and 25% VAT I'm sure it'd pay off, dollar being as low as it is..
Ouch at your prices. In the U.S. though, I think my argument holds water... overseas, obviously not.
Why do you think I said PCwonderlandOuch at your pricesif I buy a CPU/mobo/Gfx card I'm already at your budget
I can assemble an AMD 6000/3870/2GB rig for that money...
Question : Why do some overclockers switch into d*ckmode when money is involved
Remark : They call me Pro Asus
In Sweden you can buy cheap hardware! Norway is the most expensive country in the world, people come from across the border to shop food here in Sweden a lot just to give an example.
That system can be done in the Eu for just about $1000, with higher quality components like Corsair psu, coolermaster case, better ram etc
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/3/home.jsp
Incredible deal when you think that a Gtx280 will cost €550 here too...
hardwareversand is where its at, Best prices in Europe by miles! The dollar is so weak atm that it makes our prices sound even worse :P
Its very easy to make an affordable (500 euro ~ 780usd) gaming rig in Europe atm
E2180
Cheapo 650 / 750i board for option of SLI upgrade
8800gt
2gig kit of ram
640gig HDD
Corsair VX550
DVD Burner
Crappy
etc
I don't think people were expecting it to be much faster than the GX2 in apps that scale well with SLI. But I'm sure it will be in cases where the 512MB on the GX2 is an issue.
It's funny how every time a new product is discussed, and 3DMarks leak, people immediately jump to conclusions based on 3DMark, 3DMark hasn't been a real benchmark for years, and the way things are going will never be.
3DMark = no reality benchmark whatsoever.
Intel Core i7-3770K
ASUS P8Z77-I DELUXE
EVGA GTX 970 SC
Corsair 16GB (2x8GB) Vengeance LP 1600
Corsair H80
120GB Samsung 840 EVO, 500GB WD Scorpio Blue, 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3
Corsair RM650
Cooler Master Elite 120 Advanced
OC: 5Ghz | +0.185 offset : 1.352v
but it does give you a rough idea where how the performance stacks up on these
Actually the people that claim it means nothing are just as ignorant as the people who use it as a sole performance base.
And actually, it can be used as a good sole performance base, you just have to pay for it to do so. The default settings are low res, no AA or AF.
With the paid version, you can set the quality to highest, put on high res, and use AA and AF. With those settings, it will separate the good cards from the bad ones pretty quick. I am speaking of 3dmark06, have not used vantage.
Asus Rampage II Gene | Core i7 920 | 6*2GB Mushkin 998729 | BFG GTX280 OCX | Auzentech X-Fi Forte | Corsair VX550
—Life is too short to be bound by the moral, ethical and legal constraints imposed on us by modern day society.
same story with vantage from what i was told
the lower the settings the more CPU/system intense it is>>> as it goes up to highest settings GPUs take over
I Spec'd a similar system on our website (www.cyberpowersystem.co.uk):
Q6600
2x1Gb Mushkin/Transcend
Asus P5N-D (N750)
Coolermaster Elite
550W PSU
8800 GT 512 SLi
DVD-R with Litescribe
500Gb HDD (Samsung HD501LJ)
PCI X-Fi
Price: £645.00 ($1,278) ex. VAT, £757.88 ($1,501.41) inc. VAT @17.5%
Price would include build and testing with Vista 64 and a 3 year warranty.
So yeah, GBP/EUR prices = 2.5-2x USD prices. There was a time when you could get parts from US at USD prices plus shipping but not now that they've tightened up import taxation. I could probably get away with it by having them sent to work as 'samples'.
Intel i7 920 C0 @ 3.67GHz
ASUS 6T Deluxe
Powercolor 7970 @ 1050/1475
12GB GSkill Ripjaws
Antec 850W TruePower Quattro
50" Full HD PDP
Red Cosmos 1000
Again, all mid-range to low end components...
You're calling a quad-core rig with equivalent to near-GX2 performance, a "normal" amount of RAM, X-Fi sound, a beefy enough PSU, etc. etc. a "low-end" rig? Ignorant...Again, all mid-range to low end components...
Last edited by GoldenTiger; 05-28-2008 at 07:52 PM.
Tiger, it is obvious that you have something to prove... I suggest that there are better places to do that than this thread. Please go somewhere else to peddle your wares! A thread on the latest and greatest is full of individuals who can't wait to spend top dollar to get the newest thing, myself included. I for one can't wait to get 2 of these in sli driving my 30" Dell!!!
2600k @ 5ghz / z68 Pro / 8gb Ripjaws X / GTX 580 SLi
2x Inferno raid 0 / WD 1TB Black / Thermaltake 1200w
Dell 3008 WFP / Dual Loop WC MM UFO
I have nothing to prove, in fact the burden lies on them as accusing someone of being stupid for regarding something as wasting cash to prove it is wrong.
I too am looking forward to the cards and am planning on buying a GTX 280 on its launch. However, that doesn't change the fact that to me, $650 is an ABSURD price for a card regardless and is a trend I hope changes.
People in the thread couldn't stand that I said that and began flinging personal insults, so I proved that it logically makes little sense. Now you and others are being very defensive for no reason, acting as though it's a personal attack on your honor or something like that when it's nothing to do with it.
You guys get far too worked up over this stuff sometimes.
Although I guess being passionate about your hardware isn't necessarily a bad thing
I can agree with thatYou guys get far too worked up over this stuff sometimes.
Although I guess being passionate about your hardware isn't necessarily a bad thing!
The pricing debate here made me curious. The last two cards I have bought before my current one were a Geforce4 Ti 4400 for around $330 and a Geforce2 for just under $300. Here is what I found with some googling. It's called boiling a frog. The Riva 128 could be had for about $130. here you can see the TNT2 Ultra, a summer 1999 refresh of the TNT2 selling on release for only $180. In this firingsquad review you can see that the first geforce cards with DDR ram were selling at $299 MSRP. These were the top end Asus cards at that time (12/99) and Creative was selling a geforce 256 DDR card for $250. Here is a nice comparison chart from tomshardware that gives a good idea for prices at the start of 2000. I still have my Elsa Erazor X2 which was selling for just under $300. Again, state of the art and arguably the best brand at the time. It was not until the Geforce2 Ultra at $500 MSRP that we started to get a hint of current pricing. It was rumoured that such pricing was simply to compete against the $600 3dfx Voodoo 5 6000. and indeed here you can see a geforce3 for $280 (street price) in 09/2001. And by the end of 2001 you can see that the top of the line Nvidia card, the geforce3 Ti 500 had an MSRP of $350. In 2002 the bar was raised again with the geforce4 Ti 4600 selling for just under $400. By summer 2003, we are again back to an MSRP of $499 for the top end card, geforce FX 5900 Ultra. This was replaced in October with the FX 5950, again at the $499 price point. Fast forward to the summer refresh of 2004 and we have the 6800 Ultra at $499 again. Although the non-ultra 6800 GT could be had for just under $400. By the end of 2005 Nvidia is selling the geforce 7800 GTX 512 for $700. And that is the street price at the time. By spring of 2006, the 7900 GTX is released at $499. Then in November of 2006 the ever famous and still king of graphics cards, the 8800 GTX was released at just over $600. So it set a new record for both perforrmance and for cost. Although the 8800 ultra had an MSRP of $829, it soon dropped to about $700 probably due to the fact that no one was buying them. I wonder if Nvidia was testing the waters to see how much people would really be willing to pay for a top end graphics card. It seems like they were trying to go for a similar pricing strategy to Intel, with the fastest product costing a huge premium.
You are pretty much insulting anyone here that buys highend hardware. And what makes this worse is that you have a very selective memory for your arguements. I and a few others have already shown that the trend for hardware of 300 dollar hardware has not been around in a while and was never really a historical trend to begin with really. In addition, NV didn't just pop out the 8800gtx at 599. The price has been like that for a while for true high end(look through this thread).Right, because I remember the past, I have Alzheimer's? Sounds like you do more than me, though personal insults are usually the resort of those who have no other ammo to debate with as you obviously do not. I bought all of the cards within a week or two of their launches always... before the 6800-series and ATI equivalents it was always that way ($300-350 tops, less often). This is a new trend that is ludicrous, $600-650+ is way too much for a card both historically and in modern-day money period. You can buy a whole gaming computer for that which performs 80% as well as a $650 card.
Being a show-off is obvious... you act like getting fleeced is "cool" and "smart" when it is not.
Since this is xtremesystems, an enthusiest website about highend hardware, your calling alot of people stupid here for spending lots of money on the latest and greatest hardware. Of course your going to get flammed(which has mainly been attacking your arguements). If anything you have made the rudest comment here.
This comment
Being a show-off is obvious... you act like getting fleeced is "cool" and "smart" when it is not.
Says anyone with highend hardware is a showoff, buys into marketing, gets ripped off and is stupid. Seriously on a site like this, your lucky your not banned because this applies to alot of of the members here. Its alright to attacks someone argument but your above comment is a direct personal attack on a lot of people. There's really no other interpretation.
What even more ridiculous is your selective memory or your blanket statements, which makes your comments even more maddenning when you condescend on us.
Your memory is very selective for your arguments because, you choose not to ackknowledge alot of cards have been higher than 300 dollars. Which we have already shown in this thread, which dozen of MSRP all over the place. Also you are labelling all the card you own as high end when they are not.
And if we say a card is expensive to make or anything to that effect, you vedo it or say it is a poor argument because we are just gullible and falling to marketing. Is stuff getting more expensive not a valid argument when world trend have shown this?
Industry insiders are saying yields are bad and real hardware engineers around here say that the card is expensive to make. Heck even the long lineup of components and specs show(Die size and complexity of the card it self) it an expensive card. Your rebuttle, that marketing garbage(even those most people who buy this card don't know most of this information), begin to insult us and say we are all suckers.
Thats hogwash and acting really ignorant because you are ignoring alot of information that can justify our arguments valid.
Seriously don't peddle your so called answer here.
P.S your the only one throwing around personal insults.
Last edited by tajoh111; 05-28-2008 at 10:38 PM.
I think this quote says it all.
I suggest you re-read the comments IN CONTEXT. I was being insulted, so I responded back with facts. I also noted that YOU acted like paying MSRP meant you were cool somehow, which you did by inference easily.You are pretty much insulting anyone here that buys highend hardware. And what makes this worse is that you have a very selective memory for your arguements. I and a few others have already shown that the trend for hardware of 300 dollar hardware has not been around in a while and was never really a historical trend to begin with really. In addition, NV didn't just pop out the 8800gtx at 599. The price has been like that for a while for true high end(look through this thread).
Since this is xtremesystems, an enthusiest website about highend hardware, your calling alot of people stupid here for spending lots of money on the latest and greatest hardware. Of course your going to get flammed(which has mainly been attacking your arguements). If anything you have made the rudest comment here.
This comment
Being a show-off is obvious... you act like getting fleeced is "cool" and "smart" when it is not.
Says anyone with highend hardware is a showoff, buys into marketing, gets ripped off and is stupid. Seriously on a site like this, your lucky your not banned because this applies to alot of of the members here. Its alright to attacks someone argument but your above comment is a direct personal attack on a lot of people. There's really no other interpretation.
What even more ridiculous is your selective memory or your blanket statements, which makes your comments even more maddenning when you condescend on us.
Your memory is very selective for your arguments because, you choose not to ackknowledge alot of cards have been higher than 300 dollars. Which we have already shown in this thread, which dozen of MSRP all over the place. Also you are labelling all the card you own as high end when they are not.
And if we say a card is expensive to make or anything to that effect, you vedo it or say it is a poor argument because we are just gullible and falling to marketing. Is stuff getting more expensive not a valid argument when world trend have shown this?
Industry insiders are saying yields are bad and real hardware engineers around here say that the card is expensive to make. Heck even the long lineup of components and specs show(Die size and complexity of the card it self) it an expensive card. Your rebuttle, that marketing garbage(even those most people who buy this card don't know most of this information), begin to insult us and say we are all suckers.
Thats hogwash and acting really ignorant because you are ignoring alot of information that can justify our arguments valid.
Seriously don't peddle your so called answer here.
P.S your the only one throwing around personal insults.
Please show me where the cards were that expensive prior to the 6800 series. The post I quoted above shows they were not. We're talking an overall timespan of 10 years here, not 1,000 years, which qualifies as recent by standard definition.
Highend hardware is a relative term... if it performs 80-100% as well as the best of the best out there, it is high-end to any reasonable person.
I'd appreciate your use of proper grammar and spelling when flinging demeaning, silly insults at me. It's quite hard to take someone seriously when they write like that. Try re-reading the facts in this thread, and don't be scared to admit that sometimes, you CAN be wrong. Being stubborn about a misguided opinion based off of false "facts" is not bolstering your argument. Tearing down your false argument is hardly personally insulting, I don't know why you might interpret it that way unless you are as materialistic as I hinted I thought you might be earlier.
As far as your "point" about things being more expensive, do you think it was any easier for them to develop previous cards? Sure wasn't, yet they put them out at the lower prices. It is indeed a poor argument to try and pull the "OOH it's shiny new tech! it SHOULD be expensive!" card out of the hat.
On your saying I should be banned for having a different opinion than yours, well, I think that says it all. You can't possibly accept someone else's view, and thus lash out at it.
Anyway, I think this has been hashed out enough, so I'm done with it. Thread has become WAY derailed.
Last edited by GoldenTiger; 05-28-2008 at 11:16 PM.
Seems to me me you grabbed the tiger by the tail! careful he might bite.
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