using car radiators...why not?

[kinghong1970]

/points finger at the "i dont believe i did that" thread...

ha ha ha...

massive pump... good luck!

[Alexontherocks]

hahah...thanks for the advice but I calculated around 15 PSi of pressure (I only have 10m of head) plus I will be using a car radiator which should be tougher than the average watercooling rad.

[Vinas]

the pump is perfectly watertight (tested). It does need a little cleaning but it is just dust, no rust anywhere important. 8400l/h, 10m head....can't wait to have it running

That looks to be a fine pump and relatively quite at 40 dba. Nice find.

How much would you say an aluminum radiator looses against a copper one performance wise?

That's hard to say when it comes down to the materials copper should be about twice as good than alu. I think it matters more on the design of the rad TBH. Check this out:

P.s. you are absolutely certain that you don't have any corrosio going on in your system?

Yes, however my system is mostly copper and brass. I say mostly because I don't know if any alu is inside the heatercore. It's a 1980 Bonneville HC and looks very similar to the DD double 120. Corrosion my biggest concern in the CPU block and it's in perfect condition (have the acetal top EK which makes checking very easy).

How much would you say I would loose by using antifreeze in terms of performance?

Not sure. I've read the posts here but nothing AFAIK is conclusive. For me, I started with 50/50 ratio and after adding more distilled for approx 80 to 1 ratio, my temps lowered about 3 degrees on average. At the same time I remounted my block so it could just be a better mount. Hard to say what your results will be but you could start at 50/50 and work/add more distilled until you get the results you're happy with. Either way I believe it will not be a 10C difference, probably more like 1 to 5C.

[Alexontherocks]

great...that is some nice information. I was thinking of going big (the larger the surface area the more performance margin I have)

how would you judge using something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.it/Radiatore-motore-...QQcmdZViewItem

it should cool an audi tt.

[Vinas]

It looks like a big project and maybe worth it depending on your goals. BrokenWall on the 2nd post linked a similar project. I think it's really easy to get "too much" very quickly with projects like these. In the link that BrokenWall posted the OP there had 25 delta fans! Too much for my taste but seems like the OP is happy with that setup.

So it looks like you'll have an external mount maybe on the side of the case. There's a couple potential problems because A.) you won't be able to lay the case on it's side very easily, B.) moving the rig will be a little difficult, and C) similar performance could be had by using a different configuration of parts. You might do higher performance fans (I hear yate loon a lot) and a smaller rad. Perhaps a rad half the size of the one you listed here would be perfect. Personally I like the Scythe slipstream fans but I think Vapor disagrees about the performance.

Don't get me wrong I love DIY projects like this. I just imagine myself with this setup and I like to keep parts inside the case. If you NEED this much cooling then I say do it already!!! It should work nicely and have huge capacity for some menacing equipment. Think though if you might not need this much capacity then maybe a PA 120.3 or even a nice heatercore would provide excellent results. Fittings are easier on heatercores I think.

EDIT: the fittings on that rad look manageable but I can't tell what size they are. Maybe 1/2" if lucky?

[Alexontherocks]

I understand your considerations however I was planning on using TEC modules like this: http://cgi.ebay.it/CELLA-DI-PELTIER-...2em118Q2el1247

600w is a lot.....and apart from anything it is really just an experiment. Something I enjoy doing. Especially given the origin of my components. The total cost will be a fraction of what a good liquid cooling kit is worth and probably more performing. The pump alone was purchased for under 15 euros (thank god for ebay)

Regarding the radiator I have a very good idea. If you look at this picture of my pc you will see I have a large empty space under my desk. A large flat radiator will fit perfectly with tubes going to my pc on the right (and pump).



edit: They are probably bigger. Infact the pump fittings are almost 4cm (3.7) di diameter

[NaeKuh]

Iwaki the pinnacle of performance? I disagree.....check it out:

yes they are your pump however isnt. Not too sure what that model is:










You got the wrong iwaki pump if you wanted pinicle of h2o performance.

[Alexontherocks]

I disagree.. the iwaki is just an overpriced 24v pump

my pump: 10m head (same as the iwaki) but 8400 l/h flow!!! It is even

My pump is not an iwaki. It is a univerbar designed to be used in industrial applications multiple dishwashers for large professional kitchens. I have been told 1 pump of these can power up to 2 units. Designed to work at intermittent intervals.




prove me wrong...these are my pump's specs

P.s. just in case you want to point out the wattage I will say that there is definetely a separation between the impeller housing and the main motor housing. Water is not used as a coolant thus the heat immision should be very mild.

[Zehnsucht]

From what I've read the Iwaki has relativily little heatdump. But then again heatdump may not be an issue if you have an overkill radiator.

[Vinas]

After realizing you're using such a monster TEC with this I think the rad although big should work good. 600w plus whatever your system is adding will be quite a lot of heat! With any luck you'll achieve good flow and excellent cooling. I think in the winter the rad will keep your legs warm.

Have you posted in the TEC section yet to see what they think? I've never heard of using such a huge TEC with anything like this. That doesn't mean it wont work though. People have posted up that you ideally should use multiple lower wattage TECs across a large mount. Two 245w TECs like mine would give you 225w cooling @ 12vdc... Understand that the wattage numbers don't add up linearly. Think 2 or 3 TECs in a sandwich using some custom cold and hot plate. Hard work yes but anything that's worth doing always is. I'm sure you know that the TEC is going to draw a lot of power per month! I'm not one to discourage so I say onward with the build!

EDIT: Ok I see you already may be planning to use multiple ~240w TECs. Looking forward to this build.

[Alexontherocks]

From what I've read the Iwaki has relatively little heatdump. But then again heatdump may not be an issue if you have an overkill radiator.

True. And apart from the heatdupm itself I must question the design of those pumps which use water as coolant directly or indirectly for its operation. The iwaki RD30 was created not to be used in nighly stressful conditions. Iwaki has built many pumps which deal with toxic liquids, acids, coolants, viscous fluids etc. All of these pumps are mules when it comes to durability and power. Granted they will keep you awake at night, add a "0" to your electricity bill but they will outperform the smaller models. We want flow and moderate head pressure. more than 10m will most likely kill any radiator and burst the thinnest pipes (not sure about the latter but pretty sure about the former). Flow is always a good thing even though you need probably (I am not an expert) higher rpms to achieve it thus more noise. On the other hand if you add a potentiometre you will most likely have a larger margin to act upon the numer of rpms performance wise.

I would like to add just one small thing: this is an obvious consideration but I feel the need to post it. Xtremesystems as any other forum or community which deals with the limits of hardware and the means to push beyond those limits is a place where people gather and share common experiences and find solutions. I have received valuable advice from all of you. I feel however that often it is a question of money and not talent in pursuing those limits. I know I will not make myself clear thus stirring up some criticism. Leaving hardware aside (where luck and production weeks play a bigger role) cooling techniques is where people have come up with truly excellent ideas and by improving on those ideas have achieved exceptional results. Look at the guys from the phase change section: few units are prebuilt and most are the result of trial and error. Some of those guys have built triple cascade systems they can be proud of. In chilled liquid cooling may use old conditioners, in the TEC section people have used TECS in vary ingenious ways. I guess what I am trying to say is that we shouldn't (and please forgive me using the plural- but I feel like one of you now ) simply follow the latest trends. The iwaki is a good pump? Sure! but let us look for another solution, experiment with junk scraps, rethink waterblocks and coolants.

I hope I did not offend anyone....just my two cents.

[Alexontherocks]

ok next problem....

I have talked to the radiator seller and managed to get him to send the radiator right awy with an express courier so it should be here tomorrow.

it is the audi tt one.

the only problem is with fittings:

1) my pump has 2.58 ID inlet and outlet (roughly an inch)

2) the radiator probably has very similar inlets and outles.

3) my ek supreme does not and even using 1/2" barbs I still have a problem of adapting tubing to radiator and pump. My options are:

a) find adaptors for the pump and the radiator (1" to 1/2") and then use 1/2" tubing all the way

b) keep pump and radiator inlets and outlets as they are, find correct tubing and then, in proximity to the EK supreme, add adaptors along the line.

What do you guys think?

P.s. I will try to find some paste to keep all connections watertight. I have also changed the startup capacitor on the pump so not to risk malfunctions. I will also oil every moving part not in contact with water. This ought to prolongue the pump's life right?

[Alexontherocks]

I will share with you the sweetness of my latest purchase: it's massive! For now I have positioned it under the table to give an idea of size and final positioning. It will however be 20cm up from the pavement, and at least 6cm from the back woodedn panel.

I am sorry if the build is long but I have to study a lot for uni so my time is limited. have patience and bare with me.....the monster is about to awaken










everything looks very nice.....yet I still have a hard time finding reducers and I still don't know "where" to reduce the piping along the line...



edit: I will be using 6 of these fans: http://www.antec.com/ec/productDetails.php?ProdID=75200 There is enough space to fit them behind the radiator. I will also have to figure out out to mount them together. Anyway even at the lowest setting they should provide enough cooling.

[Zehnsucht]

That is a good looking radiator! Looks almost as if it's been made for PC, seeing the black and all.

[sirheck]

That looks like a volkswagon radiator.

[Alexontherocks]

Audi is Volkswagen The radiator is compatible with several models. golf, skoda octavia and audi TT!

Anyway as I have been saying it will look very good. Now my only and final dilemma is how to proceed with fittings. If I get that sorted there is no stopping me to complete the project.

[GrimReaperGuy]

Alex, it's pretty hard to break a radiator/waterblock with water pressure. I can safely run a 23m/90lpm 1/2hp pump into a car radiator and a Storm waterblock with no ill effects.

[Alexontherocks]

My concern is not with the pressure and the radiator. I simply cannot find the way to connect a 1" tube and a 1/2" tube if I choose to keep 1" tubing everywhere except for the very last cm leading into into the case and the waterblock. Not even sure if this is even the correct way to proceed.


GrimReaperGuy...with such a strong pump what temps do you get?

[GrimReaperGuy]

Don't worry about the tubing, really. I'd just have 1/2" going from your waterblock outlet to your reservoir (if you need/want one), and 1/2" from the radiator outlet to your waterblock inlet, it'll save you a lot of time and grief compared to fiddling around with series of adaptors.
The only thing you need to worry about in regards to the water pressure is make sure you use worm clamps. An un-clamped line will eventually worm its way free, and then you'll have a neat little water fountain at your pump outlet.
Regular Tygon will likely collapse on you at the pump inlet; you might need to find some reinforced tubing.

I see about ~5-10 degrees above ambient on my E6600, depending on conditions; idle to load is ~4-5 degrees. Those figures are with the pump at 1/4hp; temperatures are some ~5 degrees higher at 1/2hp.

[Alexontherocks]

the problem is that my audi tt radiator has inlets and outlets which are wider than 1" even though 1" will fit. I see no other way around it.

anyway...how do you vary pump power? I tried with a dimmer but it is useless that is why I am buildinf a soundproof container for the pump.

[GrimReaperGuy]

Well, if your pump and the radiator need pipes of different size, then yes, I suppose you'll have to break out the adapters.

I control pump power with a potentiometer in the form of an old household heater connected in parallel with the pump, through a re-wired power strip. It's all very cheap and extremely ghetto; with any luck I'll get to rebuild the damned thing in a couple of months.

[Naja002]

Ok, I'm getting in on this deal:

I just bought this:

80-85 SKYLARK, CITATION w/ HDC NEW RADIATOR--3 rows, copper/brass--$88.50 shipped

Lots of Copper/Brass radiators at Great prices--some damaged, some not--check the description:

ltiparts

And 2 of these:

PROCOMP 14 INCH ELECTRIC COOLING FAN 14" CURVED BLADE

They have 10, 12, 14 and 16" fans--cheapest prices I could find shipped--$55.80 shipped for 2. 2150cfm @ 12v and 12 amps. I'll worry about the amps, draw, undervolting later.....


I've been looking for a project. I was ready to do the copper pipe in the crawlspace and tossing around different things. I bought a mag drive 9.5 (950gph, 14' head, $60 shipped) and I have a 55gal. blue barrel. I started the plumbing yesterday. Just picked up another MB and so now I'll have 3 PCs to crunch and I'll continue my everyday stuff on one of those as I do now.

Plumbing is going to the outside. From the PCs to the blue barrel to the car rad and then back again to the manifold. The car rad is either going into 1 of 2 crawlspaces or an out-building that's shaded all day (probably the out-building.) I have a Swifty 120.2 and 2 '77 Bonneville heater cores to incorporate--if needed in any way. However, I will just do a manifold that feeds to and from each PC. Each PC will receive it own feed, so life should be good!

Yes, I'm excited.


Let's...


</Hijack>

Sweet setup, Alex. Looking forward to watching this thread......

[Alexontherocks]

great find naja......I want to share with you my latest creation.

At night I can just hear someone asking: "What are you building stark?"

1" , metal spiral, high pressure, industrial tubing..




smaller tubing is 12mmx17mm...fittings are steel indstrial fittings made watertight by grease and teflon

whatdoyouthink? will it survive the pressure?

[Alexontherocks]

one last addition....just to give you an idea of how thick that tubing is (yet it bends allright)

[GrimReaperGuy]

You might want to push that 1" further down on the adaptor. That tubing looks great though!