Cherryville - SSD 520

[bluestang]

How about Intel buying Anobit, now that would be interesting!

[Christopher]

Yeah, but they already use a fair number of the devices. Intel was one of a number of companies funding Anobit.

Also of note is the fact that Anobit's MSP processors are already used in embedded systems, so it doesn't necessarily require a second PCB.

I think the 520 may be using a Marvel controller anyway. That's what I'm saying.

[johnw]

I do know this, why in the world would Intel sink all that money into them...then let apple scoop em up?

That is what venture capitalists do. They invest in a startup or small company, wait for it to grow, then hope to sell it for a lot more than they paid in.

[Christopher]

The MSP2025 embedded device processor from Anobit uses their DSP technology and is supposed to be used on most Apple devices already. Several sources claim it (or some of the tech) is being utilized in the MacBook Air, but I don't see how that's possible. The MBA uses either Samsung or Toshiba drives -- and there is not much mystery to them. The MSP2025 could support embeded flash devices performing at 666MBs. I was thinking about it, and if the DSP technology is as good as they claim, you could use TLC NAND in real SSDs instead of USB flash drives. I looked it up, and the controller does support TLC.

It's not like the iPhone 4s and iPad 2 have the greatest storage perormance in the world, so I'm not sure what to think -- but all of the available sources on the subject would suggest that they're being used in those devices -- and Anobit has sold 20 million of them.

As far as why Apple would buy them, I think it's to block the Android coalition. Intel and three other firms put up $79 million in funding for Anobit (which is an Israeli company founded in 2006).

[Christopher]

To expound on a statement I made earlier, I think it's possible that the 520 may use a Marvel controller. Look at the specs of the Corsair Performance Pros and the Plextor M3P and M2P series. The fastest models are just a new ONFI spec away from rumored Cherryville numbers.

[johnw]

To expound on a statement I made earlier, I think it's possible that the 520 may use a Marvel controller. Look at the specs of the Corsair Performance Pros and the Plextor M3P and M2P series. The fastest models are just a new ONFI spec away from rumored Cherryville numbers.

Do you mean the M3S and M2P?
http://www.plextoramericas.com/index...series?start=1
http://www.plextoramericas.com/index...series?start=1

The 512GB M3S has a write speed of 445MB/s. The 256GB M2P is 440MB/s.

The Intel 520 is rumored to have 500MB/s sequential writes (no capacity specified to go along with that speed).

I think you are saying that Intel may be using faster flash to obtain speeds faster than the Plextors. But I don't think even Intel has access to faster flash than anyone else in the industry (particularly Micron), so I would be surprised if Intel is able to obtain 500MB/s using a similar architecture to the Plextors.

I think the best bet is that they attain that speed with compression.

But I would not be completely surprised if they do it without compression. Maybe they use a controller with 10 or 16 channels instead of 8, or a controller with more interleaving than the Marvell that Plextor and Crucial are using.

[Christopher]

The 512GB M3S has greatly reduced write IOPS, though higher sequential speeds, at least according to Plextor's website when I was looking at it yesterday afternoon.

I was saying that Toggle NAND equipped Marvel controlled drives are almost as fast as Cherryville is rumored to be (in their fastest incarnations). Obviously, Micron and Intel don't currently have NAND capable of hitting those speeds without compression, but all it might take is some faster NAND.

I also would just guess that Intel wouldn't be the type of company that touts speeds like SandForce makers do. Intel just does things differently than the others. But I have been told they may be breaking their previous traditions in several ways concerning this drive.

However, Anobit already has a embedded flash controller able to beat those speeds (but who know what it takes to achieve that). I'm not ruling anything out, but after studying the Plextor and Performance Pros it seemed as though it's not out of the question.

Everyone has been speculating about the controller, but no one has given much thought to the NAND, other than perhaps that it's 25nm. It's not like I'm not going to buy one, but I am hoping they do something interesting. It would be dumb to wait this long for just another SandForce drive.

[johnw]

Everyone has been speculating about the controller, but no one has given much thought to the NAND, other than perhaps that it's 25nm.

More than "perhaps". That leaked slide from Intel has the 520 series color coded green, which means the 25nm standard-grade (not HET) MLC flash. Now, the slide could be faked or just wrong, but I would not bet on it being wrong.

[bluestang]

Some interesting tidbits in this article on MacNewsWorld.

It's about Apple supposedly looking to buy Anobit as previously mentioned earlier here, but gives some nice additional info.

It mentions an Anobit/Samsung relationship. And Samsung has invested in Anobit too. So does Anobit supply/make Samsung's controller?

My gut feeling is no sale to Apple. And the Intel 520 controller will be labeled with the name Intel on it, but not necessarily made by them, using Anobit's technology.

[Christopher]

More than "perhaps". That leaked slide from Intel has the 520 series color coded green, which means the 25nm standard-grade (not HET) MLC flash. Now, the slide could be faked or just wrong, but I would not bet on it being wrong.

I remember the original "leaked slides" showing HET. There could be a lot of explainations, but hitting 500MBs writes doesn't seem like it needs a huge leap to happen.

[Christopher]

I also thought that Apple could be buying Anobit for the IP and to ruin Samsung's day. I've heard Samsung and Apple don't love each other anymore... lawsuits tend to have that effect.

[johnw]

I remember the original "leaked slides" showing HET.

I don't think so. Some of the 7x0 series showed the HET MLC. Not the 520 series.

[Computurd]

i guess intel just doesnt strike me as venture capitalists.

[johnw]

i guess intel just doesnt strike me as venture capitalists.

http://www.intel.com/about/companyin...info/index.htm

[Computurd]

LOL! wow guess that one blew right by me

[Calathea]

Guys, it's confirmed that Intel 520 ssd will have a new SF controller http://www.nordichardware.com/news/8...10-series.html

[Anvil]

I'm pretty sure it will be the SandForce controller.

"It looks like the rumors were true " is hardly a confirmation from Intel about using the SF controller though
(the sources from bouweenpc.nl in the linked article is no longer to be found, maybe Intel has been chasing stories)

[bluestang]

Guys, it's confirmed that Intel 520 ssd will have a new SF controller http://www.nordichardware.com/news/8...10-series.html

That's no confirmation, just more speculation based on performance numbers.

[some_one]

The cached copy doesn't seem to mention SF at all.

[bluestang]

Anybody else notice that both Intel (according to the cached copy link above for the 520) and Anobit (their Genesis page) use the term...

"End-to-End Data Protection".

I've never seen that listed with a SF controlled SSD? So far, I can only fine reference to that term with Intel, Anobit and Indilinx (Everest). Or am I wrong on that one??

[Smartidiot89]

That's no confirmation, just more speculation based on performance numbers.

Those are no speculations...

[bluestang]

Those are no speculations...

Yes they are. It's the same information everyone has based it being SF on in all the articles in early December saying/speculating it will be SF.

"There have been talk about the new series being powered by a SandForce controller, and judging from the performance numbers below it certainly looks like it."

^^ See, they are basing it on performance numbers just like everyone has.

Now, this is the part I like...

"Not surprisingly Intel replied it will not be releasing anything half-done, but also that it will participate in the development of the SSD firmware."

I take this as..."We are using an entirely new controller and, unlike SF, will not release something until we get it right." <-- Intel taking a jab at SF.

^^ Explains the delay from Q4-2011 until Q1-2012.

[Smartidiot89]

I wrote that so, no I am not speculating. Cherryville will have SandForce, with Intels own special sauce so to speak It's no new controller it's just as it says, they've been working with SandForce on the firmware for their SSD's. SF-2281 SSD's have been plagued with various bugs and I am not recommending it to anyone, this is what Intel have helped iron out for when they launch their new line of SSD's.

[johnw]

I wrote that so, no I am not speculating. Cherryville will have SandForce, with Intels own special sauce so to speak It's no new controller it's just as it says, they've been working with SandForce on the firmware for their SSD's. SF-2281 SSD's have been plagued with various bugs and I am not recommending it to anyone, this is what Intel have helped iron out for when they launch their new line of SSD's.

You wrote what? Did you write this sentence?

"There have been talk about the new series being powered by a SandForce controller, and judging from the performance numbers below it certainly looks like it."

That is a speculative sentence. I have not seen you present any evidence that 520 will use Sandforce. Only speculation.

[johnw]

"End-to-End Data Protection".

The ZFS guys also like to use that phrase.