Official EK statement - Nickel Plating Issues

[matari]

It is funny to listen to people trying to convince Eddy that his borked platting process is to blame for the issues. It's 100% lost cause. Let’s move on and vote with our wallet; I know I will never buy an EK product again, nor would I recommend anyone to purchase one. Epic Fail.

I think we all had our chance to flame EK. It's time to sticky the rma process and lock this thread.

[zeropluszero]

IMG

So those flaky bits are really just discolouration?

laughed out loud. in real life.

[Church]

I would have wished a bit more/different from way issue was handled, but to shun/bash all of the EK including unaffected products that make up majority? Sounds too fanatic to me. They still make (and will make) lot of good products such as tops, SLI connectors, copper varieties of affected blocks. And nickel plated WBs make up only small part of them all. I'm sure Eddy will keep working with support of EK products with community. Yes, ***t happened, damage done, but lets move on.

[Phatboy69]

So those flaky bits are really just discolouration?

They were never trying to claim that some blocks werent damaged. They have proven though without doubt that a copper sulphate mixed with distilled will create a low voltage in your loop that will eat the plating. Maybe there are incidents where plating was faulty but this test was to determine what might cause plating to fail prematurely and they have unequivocally proven the fact with the published result.

[Phatboy69]

It is funny to listen to people trying to convince Eddy that his borked platting process is to blame for the issues. It's 100% lost cause. Let’s move on and vote with our wallet; I know I will never buy an EK product again, nor would I recommend anyone to purchase one. Epic Fail.

I think we all had our chance to flame EK. It's time to sticky the rma process and lock this thread.

Good for you. but read carefully what you post... your not making sense.

[matari]

The damage is done and final and will stick with EK for some time. EK's customer service is global and effects all EK products. Why on earth, would I want to purchase a product from a company that will blame me for it being defective.

[Phatboy69]

The damage is done and final and will stick with EK for some time. EK's customer service is global and effects all EK products. Why on earth, would I want to purchase a product from a company that will blame me for it being defective.

Do you have a damaged product? Why are you so fanatical about boycotting EK products? Just to get in on the brawl perhaps? They are not blaming the users, they did an independent scientific analysis that proved some products dont mix? Why on earth is that their fault when its clearly not a problem with 99% of the products sold to other satisfied customers?

[OC Maximus]

So...how 'bout them Cowboys?

[paulbagz]

You are the exact type of customer EK is counting on at this point to remain in business. Naive, ignorant, and uninformed. The fact that you endorse the use of premixes speaks volumes about how little you really know.

I have used premixes in the past when I first started LC and I never had a problem with them, does that make me naive and ignorant?

Everybodys experiences are seperate and different, which is clearly the case here where people swear by H20 + PT/Silver whereas EK say don't do it.

-PB

[matari]

Do you have a damaged product? Why are you so fanatical about boycotting EK products? Just to get in on the brawl perhaps? They are not blaming the users, they did an independent scientific analysis that proved some products dont mix? Why on earth is that their fault when its clearly not a problem with 99% of the products sold to other satisfied customers?

I have pictures of my cpu and ram blocks up. My chipset block is toast and my pump impaller is sushi. My bp compression fittings have scratches inside and my radiator wont stop puking pieces of nickel. The only thong that survived was my mosfet blocks

[hillywav]

brb checking my full gold plated ek supreme hf

[Panthols]

Do you have a damaged product? Why are you so fanatical about boycotting EK products? Just to get in on the brawl perhaps? They are not blaming the users, they did an independent scientific analysis that proved some products dont mix? Why on earth is that their fault when its clearly not a problem with 99% of the products sold to other satisfied customers?

Still spouting this? I'll ask again since you seemed to ignore my previous question, what makes EK's nickel plating so different from every other companies product? What makes the plating so different from the old EK blocks that had no issues like this? If it isn't the plating then why do we have to treat nickel plated EK products differently than any other companies nickel plated blocks?

[kroks]

A thicker nickel plating would solve those corrosion issues...

[wermad]

I posted my first gtx 470 nickel block that failed within one month back in January here at xtreme. I had never seen so much hate towards a fellow enthusiast trying to find answers. But I understood this site had a lot of loyal and diehard EK fans. Eventually my thread was lost and I didn't care. I continued to chronicle my long odyssey on ocn. As soon as I got wind of many more similar reports from many other forums, I jumped back in to xs.org. Here's my gtx 470 block I bought in December of 2010, then in January this is what resulted using distilled + silver. Support then blaming "aggressive liquids" finally decided to rma my block, the rma block is now showing similar signs of nickel failure. Here's the block that failed in less than a month:





Tbh, I didn't buy Eddy's statement nor will I loose more money by getting more faulty products. I'm just taking my money elsewhere.

-wermad

[prava]

Come on Mods get this thread under control.

The way people are putting "Do not buy" stuff in here is slander and they should be told to remove it from their signatures as its completely inappropriate.

Gotta love these keyboard cowboys shooting from the hip with no personal experience with the product.

Gee if I were a manufacturer I dont think id ever bring a product or comment anywhere near this place if thats your attitude. In my opinion

You don't seem to understand. This place is like an Oasis, anybody can come here and show or review a new product: this is marketing paradise for any company...but there is one simple rule that has always been the "insignia" here: fairplay. In this community reps and users post together in plenty sections, and we do have a tooooooooon of people that get sponsored stuff to test. So, we don't get marketing BS that vendors like to put on their boxes...we get professional reviews from enthusiast users, and that alone feeds the machine: good products get self-praised and announced and crap gets bashed and hated.

So, you are looking at this from the wrong side: I have no idea on the numbers but I seriously belive that EK has made hundreds of thousands thanks to this forum alone throughout the years. Obviously, its a mutual relation: I give you money, you give me products that suit me, but its not a "forever relatin". Everybody knows that this forum is as hard and critique as one could ever be...and at the same time praises quality like no others.

Here, most of the time you won't read complains about money: wether something is expensive or not ain't important, what it IS important is that what you paid for stands to it.

PS: about the signatures. XS has also a name to stand by. If this forum recommended as of now (through his users, obviously) EK products I would be VERY disappointed. I know for a fact that Eddy will fix whatever caused this issues (he is the one that has been praised for ages, because of his good product line) althought we might never know officially: but when that day comes and the products are again as they have to be, we will alll praise such products.

You miss the point.. if any other manufacturers see how the boards allowed to run amok here against a manufacturer, they may be reluctant to get involved with the community here, reluctant to offer equipment for review, and reluctant to do any sort of promotion or PR associated with this forum. The forum would eventually die due to the lack of funding and useful productive information for the community.

How would the forum mods feel If i started saying dont go to such n such forum all over the place.. think about it.

You are missing the point. In forums like this you get free PR and publicity if your product is up to the task. This is why all small companies come here...because it helps them a lot if they are up to the ask. Now, if they are not up to it they never ever show here or they would bankrupt in a hardbeat.

The report in no way declared a plating issue so you cannot claim a plating issue, and they do not need to defend their process or QA. Anyone with half a brain knows that metals and some liquids will react in water. Why is this the manufactures fault that people who thought they new better and went and used DI water and silver coils or other exotic additives and ended up with corrosion issues. DIY has it risks, especially when talking corrosion inhibitors and taking advice from backyard scientists. Would you put DIY coolant in your 20k car radiator? I don't think so.

You want facts, do you? Here they are:

Originally Posted by gabe View Post

For reference, our plating consists in 3 "coats":

1/ Copper: thickness: 0.004mm
2/ Nickel: thickness: 0.005mm
3/ Chrome: thickness: 0.05mm

Now, lets see what Eddy says:



Swiftechs Chrome process is, in total, 12 times more thick than EK's process.

Now, you can believe whatever you want as this is a free speech forum: but try to ask yourself why this is only happening with EK, while we have Swiftech, Koolance, DD, AC and some other brands out there?

[PiLsY]

Im using Mayhems distilled + killcoil with 1 x HF full nickel and 2 x 470 nickel + acetal. The HF is 13 months old, the first 470 block is 11 months old and the second one 9 months old.

The HF initially ran on lab distilled + killcoil for 2 months until I could get hold of the mayhems - it was also the only nickel base block in the loop at the time so really shouldve corroded by Eddy's reasoning.

When I installed the first 470 block I switched to Mayhems distilled + killcoil. Had to unclog the HF then but the nickel was absolutely perfect. I didnt crack open the 470 block, just flushed, leak tested and went with it.

I did a full flush when I installed the second 470 block - again no internal inspection of the gpu blocks, but I checked the cpu block again and it was clear (nickel was also perfect).

Around xmas/new year I did a full rebuild after my NB block died. Checked all blocks internally - all fine. Full coolant swap with Mayhems distilled + killcoil.



Now im dreading doing it, and I dont think I have any issues (can't see anything sparkling in the bottom of the res with torchlight, temps are still the same as day 1, flow is still totally fine) but there's no way I can risk it without checking.

I'm really disappointed with EK's response to this - its clearly not a satisfactory explanation. When I received my blocks I did notice that the nickel plating seemed very thick - nothing like some of the pics of new blocks I've seen here. I would tend to agree that someone somewhere has cut corners on the plating process, and now the end users are paying the price. Even if you're not affected by it you have no choice but to do a full teardown to check. Full copper and acetal for me from now on. I'm going to keep the bling to backplates and stuff from now on rather than letting it get in contact with the loop itself.

Regards the returns as well - I've never once had to pay shipping both to and back from an RMA. I've usually paid to send it away (though some companies collect free), but NEVER had to pay to a repaired/replacement part back.


I can't remember who said it on the other thread but I think they hit the nail on the head. The failing blocks are copper ones that were re-plated in my opinion. I know they were selling less copper than they expected as for several months as everywhere had massive stocks of copper blocks but no nickel. I had to wait 2 months to get my 470 blocks plus I had to buy them from different shops too. The HF was also nigh on impossible to find in nickel base over here. That's why I ended up with the full nickel one - I did want acetal + nickel to match my gpu blocks. Anyway, don't want to get carried away with guessing games and finger pointing. Its pretty obvious now that EK have taken this stance and now can't back down from it.

I haven't posted until now as I wanted to see how it all panned out and how EK responded. My overall view is its too little and too late. Final nail in EK's coffin for me - they've lost a customer. I'm only small fry, but I'd built up a good £500 worth of EK parts, plus recommendations too. I cannot recommend products made by a company that treats its customers like this, even if they make nanofluid out of snake oil and unobtanium particles.

[Rudster816]

Swiftechs Chrome process is, in total, 12 times more thick than EK's process.

.004 + .005 + .004 = .012mm\12 microns. 12/4 = 4 times thicker.

[schoolslave]

.004 + .005 + .004 = .012mm\12 microns. 12/4 = 4 times thicker.

Hmmm...... 4+5=9, 9+4=13?

[RCG_Bex]

I mustr admit, I loved EK's copper + acetal blocks. I hate Acyrlic + Nickel, but since acetal + nickel is their only option for my mobo and GPU blocks then it leaves me a little stumped... I've had them packaged up unopened for the past 3 months and now that it draws nearer to the time for me to do my build I'm starting to worry... I was going to get a matching CPU block as well but now I'm not so sure on what to do...

I'd given up on colored fluids and was planning on car suited de-ionised water & a silver kill coil, but surely then I'm putting the blocks at risk?

~Bex

[Thomas FJ]

You want facts, do you? Here they are:

Originally Posted by gabe View Post
or reference, our plating consists in 3 "coats":

1/ Copper: thickness: 0.004mm
2/ Nickel: thickness: 0.005mm
3/ Chrome: thickness: 0.05mm

Now, lets see what Eddy says:


Swiftechs Chrome process is, in total, 12 times more thick than EK's process.

Now, you can believe whatever you want as this is a free speech forum: but try to ask yourself why this is only happening with EK, while we have Swiftech, Koolance, DD, AC and some other brands out there?

Does anyone know how Koolance, AC, Watercool etc. are plating their blocks? Is it a single layer as EK or several as Swiftech?

If the others, who doesn't have any problems with common watercooling fluids, are like Swiftech the conclusion is quite easy in regards to EKs plating...
/Thomas

[prava]

.004 + .005 + .004 = .012mm\12 microns. 12/4 = 4 times thicker.

Read it again, its .004 + .005 + .05 = 0.059mm of platting or 59 microns of platting.

15 times higher than EK (provided that data from Swiftech is accurate).

[Phatboy69]

EK like others, is most likely using an electroless plating process as its easier to get a uniform coverage on complex shapes. It is also usually thinner than an electroplated item which is why its good for complex shapes and tight areas like pressure plates in CPU blocks. Usually it has superior wear and corrosion resistance if done well vs electro plating. It is possible their plating process needs looking at but you are all speculating it's purely a plating issue.

Let the guys finish their testing. Is some one here prepared to fund their own independent testing to contest the result?

Im sure EK and Eddy will have more to say on this as it has blown up to such huge proportions everywhere i look!

Bottom line, they are looking after their customers by replacing effected products, it may not be the solution or answer you all wanted to hear... but some of you should be eating your own words because you were sure they weren't going to swap effected products and they have proven you haters wrong.

[RADCOM]

Just a couple of questions for Eddie a ( Naekuh keep calm lol) Is Fesser 1 premix okay?
Is there a copper/acetal EK block for the 6990 I didn't see one on the EK site
open to the floor:-
How expensive would it be to get the nickel removed and is this even an option? ( wont the holes etc be slightly bigger)
Does nickel plating a copper block really start with a layer of copper or is that process only for alternate metals?

[MrToad]

I'm not Eddy but I have at least one answer for you

Is there a copper/acetal EK block for the 6990 I didn't see one on the EK site

They've just listed it

open to the floor:-
How expensive would it be to get the nickel removed and is this even an option? ( wont the holes etc be slightly bigger)
Does nickel plating a copper block really start with a layer of copper or is that process only for alternate metals?

I'm interested on the answer to this too

Haven't had any issues so far, but is always good to have a "plan B"

[zeropluszero]

Do you have a damaged product? Why are you so fanatical about boycotting EK products? Just to get in on the brawl perhaps? They are not blaming the users, they did an independent scientific analysis that proved some products dont mix? Why on earth is that their fault when its clearly not a problem with 99% of the products sold to other satisfied customers?

proof of independence and proof of no corruption. go!

Water cooling is also VERY expensive in this country for the same reasons, which is why you see me come across so passionately about it, because you have to be committed to it to spend the 8K+ i spent on my rig.

lol, you spent 8k, that means you're 8x righter than us.

I mustr admit, I loved EK's copper + acetal blocks. I hate Acyrlic + Nickel, but since acetal + nickel is their only option for my mobo and GPU blocks then it leaves me a little stumped... I've had them packaged up unopened for the past 3 months and now that it draws nearer to the time for me to do my build I'm starting to worry... I was going to get a matching CPU block as well but now I'm not so sure on what to do...
I'd given up on colored fluids and was planning on car suited de-ionised water & a silver kill coil, but surely then I'm putting the blocks at risk?
~Bex

you'll be fine bex, because the silver and distilled isnt the issue, the plating is.