Official EK statement - Nickel Plating Issues

[Panthols]

I have actually owned quite a few EK parts, I acutally have 7 in my rig right now (thankfully nothing nickel plated). A lot of the issue people are having is with the fact that the blame for this is being pushed onto the customers. The people who are experiencing issues with the blocks apparently didn't follow a set of unwritten guidelines for keeping the nickel plating from degrading and are responsible for the damage, but EK will be nice and RMA these anyway. Slashdot car analogy: This would be the same as me running 91 octane in my car, having the engine blow up, then being told that BMW will replace it but it was my fault that I was running just 91 octane without their tested additives. No other engines blow up on 91 octane, just theirs, and it's my fault. That is not an acceptable response.

There is no apparent intent from EK to fix this issue that seems only to occur with their nickel plating. If EK stated that they are planning on modifying their nickel plating so this won't happen in the future, that would be great. If they said they were going to use a different company for their nickel plating that would be great. If it was stated that measures to resolve this problem in any way would be taken, that would be great. That hasn't happened. They pushed blame onto the customers and have stated no intent to change their plating process. This alone is reason enough for a lot of people not to use their products.

All we have gotten is "this isn't a nickel plating problem" and "you need to use these specific additives" and no "we will be changing our process". They can RMA everything for free and replace all the blocks as much as they want, but if the original problem isn't addressed (and most here agree that it hasn't) then the problem isn't solved. Until EK states that their plating process was flawed (or at the least that they will be changing it) a lot of people won't be buying their nickel plated blocks and a lot of people will be bashing the company for how this was handled.

[Annirak]

Maybe so, but there is a constructive and informative way to do that versus the abusive and slanderous behaviour that is completely uncalled for.

Have you looked at the other forums where Ek has posted his statement? The response is essentially universal.

You have upset users because a product did not work as expected. The response is similar to that of the Toyota breaking scare--ironically, that one was, largely, user error.

Yes, people here are a bit xtreme in their responses. What else would you expect? Forums foster a very visceral culture. People don't pull punches, and express directly how they feel about a situation. This is important feedback for EK. Eddy needs to know that he has caused a really bad PR situation.

I can see a few possible resolutions to this situation:

1. Eddy says that they're launching an inquiry into their plating techniques, increases the thickness significantly, RMAs blocks from anyone who's suffering a problem, continues to enjoy a good reputation.
2. Eddy secretly launches an inquiry into the plating, increases the thickness, RMAs affected blocks, enjoys a less expensive RMA process at the cost of his reputation for customer service. Said reputation may come back eventually.
3. Eddy ignores the calls for a re-examination of the plating process. Experienced users avoid his products, his reputation suffers, his market share and his profits shrink. (People bought koolance when they used aluminum on waterblocks, so some will still buy EK)

Eddy, please take option #1. It will cost more right now, but people will be much happier with you and probably stop suggesting that people buy from other manufacturers. Recalls are a really terrible thing to have to go through, but successfully executing one will gain you some loyal customers.

Having been on the development end of a product return, I know how stressful it is. I was the lead developer on a product that was integrated into some very expensive equipment. It failed. I got it back, tested it, couldn't identify a root cause. I went to the manufacturer of one of the parts, and they couldn't identify a cause (their part wasn't to blame). I eventually found a barely perceptible manufacturing defect (even with a microscope, it was nearly impossible to see). We kept the customer for that product. Do you know why? It wasn't because we were the only available manufacturer. It was because we kept them informed every step of the way and took their suggestions of what to investigate.

[Phatboy69]

wont EK's lawyers be too busy trying to retract their warranty wording?

thanks to the moderating team here at XS for letting me say my peace. much better than those at OCAU, who are long on the ban hammer and short on the reasoning.

EK doesnt pay for any advertising here.

You miss the point.. if any other manufacturers see how the boards allowed to run amok here against a manufacturer, they may be reluctant to get involved with the community here, reluctant to offer equipment for review, and reluctant to do any sort of promotion or PR associated with this forum. The forum would eventually die due to the lack of funding and useful productive information for the community.

How would the forum mods feel If i started saying dont go to such n such forum all over the place.. think about it.

[Vapor]

Let's try to stay on topic.

[Panthols]

You miss the point.. if any other manufacturers see how the boards allowed to run amok here against a manufacturer, they may be reluctant to get involved with the community here, reluctant to offer equipment for review, and reluctant to do any sort of promotion or PR associated with this forum. The forum would eventually die due to the lack of funding and useful productive information for the community.

Yes, this happened with Koolance. I can see how the years of Koolance hate has led them to abandon this forum and never promote or post here.

[Annirak]

You miss the point.. if any other manufacturers see how the boards allowed to run amok here against a manufacturer, they may be reluctant to get involved with the community here, reluctant to offer equipment for review, and reluctant to do any sort of promotion or PR associated with this forum. The forum would eventually die due to the lack of funding and useful productive information for the community.

You'll note that Gabe from Swiftech is on this board fairly frequently (as manufacturers' reps go). I don't think anyone has any beef with him. I don't think he has any issue with how these boards are run. It seems to me that maybe, just maybe, there was a bit of a PR disaster and this is the fallout. Lesson to take away: Don't blame your users unless you can prove it categorically. A suitable example would be if the EK blocks came with a warning to only use with anti-corrosion additives.

[Annirak]

Yes, this happened with Koolance. I can see how the years of Koolance hate has led them to abandon this forum and never promote or post here.

Perhaps you miss the point... Koolance fixed the problem. Now people are starting to recommend their parts again. Surprising, isn't it?

[schoolslave]

You miss the point.. if any other manufacturers see how the boards allowed to run amok here against a manufacturer, they may be reluctant to get involved with the community here, reluctant to offer equipment for review, and reluctant to do any sort of promotion or PR associated with this forum. The forum would eventually die due to the lack of funding and useful productive information for the community.

How would the forum mods feel If i started saying dont go to such n such forum all over the place.. think about it.

Haha, I don't think EK "funds" this forum.....
Actually, I think other companies will see that trying to blame an obvious manufacturer's fault on the consumer will not work, and that, not just this forum but others as well, value a true and honest assessment of these types of issues instead of this BS that EK is currently doing.

Btw, I own about 5 EK blocks (including one for my old HD 2900 Pro) and I personally own 4 of their reservoirs which have all developed cracks/leaks over time....

[Vapor]

Again, let's try to stay on topic

If you don't have anything on-topic to say, you don't need to say anything

[aqualab]

A suitable example would be if the EK blocks came with a warning to only use with anti-corrosion additives.

You need anti-corrosive only to avoid complications cause by defective plating

[Panthols]

Perhaps you miss the point... Koolance fixed the problem. Now people are starting to recommend their parts again. Surprising, isn't it?

One more off topic... Sorry Vapor. I just wanted to clarify that I should have maybe used sarcasm tags for my post.

[stangracin3]

He may not have said it publicly but I am sure that his plater is getting an ass ripping. So just because he hasn't said it publicly doesn't mean something isn't happening privately. It seems some of you(Utnorris, Naekuh, and a few others) aren't even thinking of that possibility because you are already too busy on your way to the barn to grab the gas, rope and pitchforks. so you will be able to tie him to a tree and...

Now can we think with more than just one half of our brain?

[Church]

I decided to summarize my thoughts on this subject.

Thoughts on statement/finding itself:

It's plating quality issue, not of conductive coolant. Even pure distilled with NO additives will soon become conductive in loop as tests show. That's NOT "Effects of these additives were not commonly known" but been known for years by anyone not lazy to read in this hobby . Some advertised non conductive coolants become conductive by time too (no comment on suggested EC6, as i've not tried it). Others vendors have no problems because of conductiveness of coolant. EK didn't had such problems too with their earlier nickel plated blocks. Distilled with silver or copper sulphate biocide might become conductive faster, but it should not be issue, and as it least problematic, cheapest and best performing coolant LCers came to by many tests and trials during many years timeframe, people will still use it in most cases. While non conductive coolants with anticorrosion additives might slow down EK's nickel plating flaking down, i myself certainly don't wish to exchange one problem with others, such as potential gunking up and staining of LC components, worse thermal performance and higher price. If EK nickel blocks are usuable only with non-conductive coolants, their performance can be counted as worse, just like if using only worse one then others TIM paste included in set with block. That lessens block value a bit. Pitty that even if bad plated blocks were just 5% (btw, reason why it might be harder to find problems even with testing by themselves and by that institute), i see this issue cutting sales of EK blocks by 1/4th at very least.

On RMA/impact on me:

As shipping costs make relatively big part of overall cost for me having to ship from 'other side of pond' (yes, only RMA shipment costs wise would be better if i'd shop just at EU LC shops, but often cheaper shipment there is more then offset by WAT addition, so initial purchase might have been made at stateside shops, thus RMA shipping needs to be made back to those) and further down are lessened on initial combined big order - which won't help on case of single block shipping back to states for RMA.
So in general high potential need to RMA is no-no for me, so most probably i'll have to choose non plated blocks or those of competitors :/

I'm sure that EK will quietly up their QC and probably enhance their plating process, but as history of rusting Koolance plugs shown, many shops might carry old, possibly defective, gear for long time, so i myself wont trust/get EK nickel* for at least year (and tell so for others asking for advise/suggestion of component choice). Pitty, as i liked looks wise nickel+acetal combo best, but potential problems is not something i wish for me or others (also being in ex-SU countries with very long and costly shipment) to have even if it may affect only small part of all the blocks sold.

Generic comment on subject:

EK might have handled this issue better. I see this damaging their reputation (and sales) for years even for completely unaffected/unrelated component series. But then again i don't like how many hotheads from community handled this too. Loose-loose situation in many ways in marketing droid terms. It's hard to tell if from business viewpoint other ways to handle this issue would be better minimizing losses though, as we are not in EK shoes and our guesses/suggestions will be just that. It's hard to monetarize such vague thing as 'reputation' and weight directly against lost sales number. Nobody has alternative worlds available at hand with rollback to try out alternative ways for choosing best one so it will stay a bit as guesswork. EK made his choice, will it be best for them long-term? Who knows. But as this hobby related business success seems very influenced by vendor-reputation and what 'LC veterans' say/suggest, and as stereotypes are hard to get rid off, hit to reputation will be hard for years to come (again koolance's plugs as example, that got remembered even years after issue had been fixed).

[prznar1]

Just remember its the manufacturer that pays for the advertising to keep places like this running.

People without a direct experience with this particular problem have no right to slander the product/company, and If I was a manufacturer trying to do the right thing by my customers and got this response in a forum Id give it a wide berth its just not worth the bad and unjustified PR.

If I were EK Id be getting my lawyers to look at this very closely as, putting a slogan in your signature is slanderous and a lot more than an opinion.

have a right or not?
well...
people have a right to talk about whatever they want. you cannot say who can say something and who cannot. moderators just taking care of worthless craps and idiots that are not thinking about how they are saying something. it is that simple.

ive avoided few posts. no word from Eddy about plating i guess?

churchy RMA rules have been changed a bit. now you dont have to ship your block directly to EK, send it to your local EK reseller and he will send you back your new block. also while changing for copper version the price difference will be refunded.

[schoolslave]

He may not have said it publicly but I am sure that his plater is getting an ass ripping. So just because he hasn't said it publicly doesn't mean something isn't happening privately. It seems some of you(Utnorris, Naekuh, and a few others) aren't even thinking of that possibility because you are already too busy on your way to the barn to grab the gas, rope and pitchforks. so you will be able to tie him to a tree and...

Now can we think with more than just one half of our brain?

I wanted to believe that too, but as far as I know the report that EK posted came from the plater, therefore I think it's clear that EK does not actually think it's an issue with the plater, same as with the faulty reservoirs....it's all the user's fault for using PT-nuke and silver...blablabla

[stangracin3]

have a right or not?
well...
people have a right to talk about whatever they want. you cannot say who can say something and who cannot. moderators just taking care of worthless craps and idiots that are not thinking about how they are saying something. it is that simple.

not true

If fugger felt like he could come in here and delete this thread and ban anyone and everyone that ever mentions this again if he felt like it. last time i checked, this is his site not ours

edit:

I wanted to believe that too, but as far as I know the report that EK posted came from the plater, therefore I think it's clear that EK does not actually think it's an issue wit the plater, same as with the ty reservoirs....

from what i can see it came from a science institute and EK's Lab's

edit 2:

and before you people say that this is not affecting me. well sorry to disappoint, but you are wrong. Ive wanted one of those supreme HF's for a while but then this happened. so now i will be getting the copper version or waiting a while to get a new nickel version...

[UrbanSmooth]

I currently use distilled water + PT Nuke PHN, the EK-FB-R3E mobo block, and the EK Supreme HF CPU block in my mobo/CPU loop. Will this setup be ok?

[stangracin3]

I currently use distilled water + PT Nuke PHN, the EK-FB-R3E mobo block, and the EK Supreme HF mobo block in my mobo/CPU loop. Will this setup be ok?

how long have you had the block? if greater than 4 ish months you should be fine

edit:
should be means MAYBE

[Church]

prznar1: i have NO local resellers here in Latvia. So only those resellers where i bought blocks on other side of globe or EK itself (while Slovenia also is in Europe, but still shipment is not very cheap).

[defect9]

these threads (this one, the other one, and the various ones related and spawned in response to) have given me a lot to think about in regards to my loop. While I wish it hadn't taken the entirety of what occured to reveal what has been revealed, I'm at least certain that we are now a more informed community.

my condolences to those who lost their blingy blocks, time, effort, money, and such on all sides.

[UrbanSmooth]

how long have you had the block? if greater than 4 ish months you should be fine

edit:
should be means MAYBE

Finished my build in early May, heh.

[prznar1]

prznar1: i have NO local resellers here in Latvia. So only those resellers where i bought blocks on other side of globe or EK itself (while Slovenia also is in Europe, but still shipment is not very cheap).

here in my country, we have atleast three resellers of ek blocks.
yooki.pl
cooling.pl
angela.pl
shipping blocks to Poland will be less expencive since only Lithuania is between us. ofc contact EK and one of them about RMA.

btw how did you bought them?

[stangracin3]

Finished my build in early May, heh.

but how long have you had the block?

less than 4 months?

[shazza]

G'nite all. While I have a feeling our requests to keep things on track keep falling on deaf ears, I'll ask politely that you think before you post. Don't flame, don't incite, and don't call anybody else names. Don't fight with each other. Out ...

[Defoler]

Regarding RMA shipping costs: it is standard in industry. It is same as if your kitchen mixer fails and you have to drive to deliver for repair nad drive again to pick it up after repairing.

You are kidding right? Please say you are kidding here...

Not everyone life in the US or europe, and have to get it shipped from abroad, which cost a pretty penny.
To send the block back to where I got it, for example frozencpu, I will have to pay 25$. And to get it back without tracking and a chance for it to get lost, will cost me another 25$.

If a kitchen mixer fails, I can deliver it to where I live in.

This is not the same!