Official EK statement - Nickel Plating Issues

[Phaseshift]

I cannot speculate about other products. And second is that we did not change anything within our manufacturing process. We thoroughly checked everything after nickel plating problems occurred and we did not find anything changed about nickel plating process. But for your information here is a bit of trivia: It seems that problems with products come from USA and Australia and almost none from Europe. I assure you that we are sending products from same product line and from the same batches to all continents. And before anyone attacks me about insinuating: this is just a fact. A fact that puzzles us.
I will try to stay with facts because I see this is the only way to come to the end of this problem. And we will come to the end of this problem and we will support our users.

The thing is that this issue is very complex we are doing all we can to find a solution for all of us, so please feel free to give any facts which could help us to get the big picture.

I'm going to order my parts from europe and hope I don't get the bad batch hehe, does aquatuning ship from Europe even though they have an US/CA site?

[NaeKuh]

I'm going to order my parts from europe and hope I don't get the bad batch hehe, does aquatuning ship from Europe even though they have an US/CA site?

AT ships everything in EU from what i understood.
That is why we US people have to pay a premium unless we meet a $80 min. which then turns to $6 shipping.

Oh im sure AT could offer some plating jobs as well, and could fix this mess for you guys in the EU.

Just point them to this thread.. and im positive, they will be on it.

[XiraN]

Why would you plate a copper block with a separate layer of copper, pre-nickle?? Or is that copper coat on top of the existing copper block done to hide a much lower purity of copper in the base plate? Otherwise that doesn't make any sense.

[Annirak]

I'm going to order my parts from europe and hope I don't get the bad batch hehe, does aquatuning ship from Europe even though they have an US/CA site?

Looks like:

Orders which are placed after 01:00am CST (8:00GTM) via „ UPS Express fast lane “ will be shipped at the next day from Germany.

[NaeKuh]

Why would you plate a copper block with a separate layer of copper, pre-nickle?? Or is that copper coat on top of the existing copper block done to hide a much lower purity of copper in the base plate? Otherwise that doesn't make any sense.

Sigh...

Yes the entire copper base is plated, and thus is in contact with the coolant.

Our bases are not nickel plated, they are chrome plated. It's a bit more expensive, but it looks much whiter than nickel that has yelowish reflects.

Knock on wood, we haven't had any complaints about our plating coming off to this date. All I can say in general is that pre-treatment (cleaning/etching) is considered absolutely critical for a durable plating and preventing peel-off etc..

For reference, our plating consists in 3 "coats":

1/ Copper: thickness: 0.004mm
2/ Nickel: thickness: 0.005mm
3/ Chrome: thickness: 0.05mm

ENOUGH ok?

Its done... and if you read people told you why.

Now lets keep on track please.

[MrToad]

Or eK should play a reputable retailer.. ie.. sidewinders, to take all the RMA's and have have them replate it stateside and mail them back out.

I figure cross shipping and expense wise, that is probably the cheapest solution, because as it stands, i dont think anyone will trust eK nickle until they did a big time fix on there nickle plating process.

Actually on paper that doesn't look like a bad idea...

Not getting into arguing whether EK's plater is this or isn't that, is just from a logistics point of view.

Getting the blocks re-plated "locally" surely is more cost/time efficient than shipping the blocks to Slovenia from all around the world?

As you point out I'm sure resellers know where to get this done within their "caption area"?

[prznar1]

Actually on paper that doesn't look like a bad idea...

Not getting into arguing whether EK's plater is this or isn't that, is just from a logistics point of view.

Getting the blocks re-plated "locally" surely is more cost/time efficient than shipping the blocks to Slovenia from all around the world?

As you point out I'm sure resellers know where to get this done within their "caption area"?

all true, but what if ek got exlusive agreement with plater? im sure that ek does not do anything that would cost them more then it should. i bet on that

[XiraN]

By the way Eddy, nice [snip] -Vapor

[NaeKuh]

As you point out I'm sure resellers know where to get this done within their "caption area"?

no i am fairly sure with 100% confidence that if EK doesnt fix these blocks, Gary will replate them, and then resell them after they been properly plated to recoop costs instead of ditching the failed plated blocks entirely.

[Vapor]

By the way Eddy, nice [snip] -Vapor

XS is not a place for you to attack anyone.

[MrToad]

all true, but what if ek got exlusive agreement with plater? im sure that ek does not do anything that would cost them more then it should. i bet on that

That could be an issue (the exclusive agreement I mean), but if I were the plater, regardless of the findings on the official report I'd be right now reviewing my process and looking into ways to improve the results, for the sake of my future business, and very open to alternative ways to deal with the existing issues that might not necessarily be "my way".

On the second part I couldn't possibly comment (no sarcasm on this), but I'd like to believe EK would like to do right for their customers. In my personal experience they've always been nothing but helpful to me.

no i am fairly sure with 100% confidence that if EK doesnt fix these blocks, Gary will replate them, and then resell them after they been properly plated to recoop costs instead of ditching the failed plated blocks entirely.

Yeah, it would be a total shame to ditch the blocks just because of the plating.

Personally I'd love to see some flexibility on the avenues of resolution of this matter... Doing right for the customer (and one doesn't need to put the trousers down for this) quickly takes the bitter edge away...

[Rudster816]

Or eK should play a reputable retailer.. ie.. sidewinders, to take all the RMA's and have have them replate it stateside and mail them back out.

I figure cross shipping and expense wise, that is probably the cheapest solution, because as it stands, i dont think anyone will trust eK nickle until they did a big time fix on there nickle plating process.

This is what I suggested in the other thread. But with EK allowing end users to RMA with the reseller, this is less of an issue because the resellers can just wait until the RMA deadline is up, and ship out all "defective" blocks back at once. Then EK can replate them, and resell them. I just didn't want EK demanding that the end user ship there blocks to Slovenia on their own dime to get them replated\replaced.

I do agree though, I think EK might be better off paying someone who lives in the States to replate stateside blocks. I suggested Swiftech earlier, but any company that can do nickel plating would do. Its up to Eddy though, I just hope that resellers aren't being punished by EK during the RMA process.

[MrToad]

This is what I suggested in the other thread. But with EK allowing end users to RMA with the reseller, this is less of an issue because the resellers can just wait until the RMA deadline is up, and ship out all "defective" blocks back at once. Then EK can replate them, and resell them. I just didn't want EK demanding that the end user ship there blocks to Slovenia on their own dime to get them replated\replaced.

I do agree though, I think EK might be better off paying someone who lives in the States to replate stateside blocks. I suggested Swiftech earlier, but any company that can do nickel plating would do. Its up to Eddy though, I just hope that resellers aren't being punished by EK during the RMA process.

TBH I don't think Gabe would like to touch any aspect of this whole conundrum with a barge pole...

[Eddy_EK]

RE: the return procedure – maybe the main retailers around the world could maybe consider accepting the returns on behalf of the end user and holding them all at their particular locations then return them in one large shipment rather than having the individual end user ship them direct to EK.

Then EK could have all returns sent out direct to the end user at his expense which would eliminate quite a bit of valuable vendor time and would at least show a bit of good will on EK’s behalf.

In fact other than scrap value, i honesty don’t see what good these returns will do for EK so why not bite the bullet and accept pictorial evidence to eliminate the costly returns procedure to the end user and ship them new blocks as most are having to pull systems apart in their own time and expense which fundamentally isn’t their problem to begin with.

Either way, no doubt this is going to cost EK a fair price so why don’t you do the right thing by the very people that got the EK brand to where it is today (well a couple of months ago) and offer new blocks at your own expense.

Seriously Eddy, you need an English speaking PR to stop this becoming one of, if not the most disastrous PR disasters i’ve seen in my 10+ years of watercooling and at this point, i’m honestly not sure you are aware of how bad this actually looks for the EK brand whether it be from a long time user, or potential new one.

We were thinking the same way by the RMA point #4:
4. We will then inform you where to ship the damaged block(s)

We will try to arrange that every customer will ship the products to it's closest EK reseller and should get the replacement product from them. This way we can lower the shipping costs to the minimum.

[Rudster816]

TBH I don't think Gabe would like to touch any aspect of this whole conundrum with a barge pole...

I wouldn't blame him, but if EK contracted out him plating potentially 100's of blocks, I think there is a couple of bucks to be made.

[NaeKuh]

I wouldn't blame him, but if EK contracted out him plating potentially 100's of blocks, I think there is a couple of bucks to be made.

oh yeah.. have your blocks sent to a retailer.. to have them sent to cali, then back to retailer.. vs having the retailer plate the blocks locally at a plater he trusts... and then mailing it out..

ummm..

sorry, im with toad on this one... and knowing gabe, he wouldnt touch those blocks soley on the reason of if the plating should somehow fail, it would be flipped onto swiftech.

And gabe is a solid businessman, and he doesnt like digging his own graves.




Eddy as it runs, once again sorry if i sound rude...
There is a problem...
Now to fix a problem, it costs money.
But if you can fix the problem with money it wont be a problem.

So someone needs to pay...
If you tell your customers they need to pay, well, thats the last problem they will see from you.
If your going to need to pay for this problem to go away, then do it the way people will be happy.

As it stands... even with your expensive testing, no one trusts your plating, and they wont until you've done a through investigation on your plating process.

So pay someone else to replate these blocks locally at the retailer.
As i said, gary does custom plating. Im sure Hank @ PPC will know a couple others as well.

Have them take the RMA's and front the plating bill to you.

Then i think the customers might not feel so bad when you make them pay for the shipping end.
If the plating fails again, you can blame the retailer... you didnt touch the plating... you go free without responsibility...
As i said, you paid for the problem to go away, and this is the best way to make it go away.

[mlwood37]

Yes, we used this coolant in our tests.

If you would like samples of

1) Pre-mixed liquids we make
2) Biocide

Ill will send them free of charge to you (you have to pay post and packing only)

So that you may test our products with you blocks. Contact me either though my shop or PM on here.

Mayhems Dye.

[theseeker]

We were thinking the same way by the RMA point #4:
4. We will then inform you where to ship the damaged block(s)

We will try to arrange that every customer will ship the products to it's closest EK reseller and should get the replacement product from them. This way we can lower the shipping costs to the minimum.

Eddy,

Thank you for your posts, this must be a difficult time for you. Being a business owner, I understand your pain. Mistakes-problems handled correctly, can help grow your business.

I do have one question; Since all of my blocks, 5 to be exact, are new and unused, what is your suggestion or policy?

Thank you and good luck!

Rocky

[aqualab]

Ok I read the institute report, on page 12 they mention

Ni.....98.98%
Cu....1.02 % ( 10200 ppm )

On this page about problems with copper impurities in nickel bath, they mention that 100 ppm of Cu is to much, so what about 100 time more (10,200) I don't know what is the purity of nickel other manufacturers use. if this 1.02 is more high than usual it will fit with my theory of copper impurities in the nickel bath, those copper impurities coming form the cathode and a to high voltage.

http://www.finishing.com/569/98.shtml

I hope this link is ok as it's not related to PC industry at all

[coolmiester]

OK Eddy, thanks for the clarification on how and where to ship returns but you simply addressed one issue and not one hint of an apology for the inconvenience these guys are going to have to undergo due to your inept plating issue.

Apart from the cost of shipping to and from the retailer i guess most people will have a few other questions you may want to address such as these seven below but no doubt i could double that with ease and many others will have more.

Is it too much to ask for clarification on the following to at least put some queries to rest as all these loyal customers want is a few simple answers....

1/ So i uninstall my block and find it has problems – how long after sending the 3 photos and the RMA form to support@ekwaterblocks.com do i expect to wait before i get the go ahead to then return the block/s to the retailer???

2/ I uninstall my block and find no visible defect but i don’t feel comfortable to carrying on using it or the EK brand – am i able to RMA???

3/ If i fitted my brand new block in the last few days, do you expect me to pull the block at my own time and expense and return the block before July 31st???

4/ Once the block/s are returned, again how long should i expect my system to be unusable due to the return block being shipped???

5/ Are the replacement blocks going to be of better quality to that i am sending back???

6/ What if the replacement block fails???

7/ Why is this whole experience costing me time and money when all i did was buy from a so called reputable dealer???

[Sparky]

And...

8/ What happens if the replacement block goes bad when using the "allowed" fluids, especially after the cutoff date?

[NaeKuh]

lol my solution appears to be the brightest one at this moment...

4 5 6 7 8 is taken care of.

Dump the responsibility on another source while you fix your source.
Instead of giving out bad replacements, or possible bad replacements, and trying to fix your source concurrently.

[coolmiester]

lol my solution appears to be the brightest one at this moment...

4 5 6 7 8 is taken care of.

I guy PM'd me once telling me he paid a guy to mod his case and he made a real mess of it and would i put it right.........i think we both know the answer to that so 4 5 6 7 8 isn’t taken care of in my book.

Its Eddy's problem and he needs to sort it rather than rely on others to fix his mistakes otherwise he will always be the guy that took our money and ran.

He needs to come up with a plausible plan to put his wrong doing right, and fast.

[KingOfsorroW]

Would the water change every two months solve the issue?

[rge]

Eddy,

An individual on hardwareluxx was using feser blue premix only, which is "non-conductive distilled", 4 corrosion inhibitors specifically for nickel/copper, etc, and ethylene glycol, yet that individual has large portions of exposed copper on his EK nickel plated blocks. See post 1227 for pics and post 1229 he stated his coolant only feser blue. Others had made similar claims, but cant find with quick search other pics. Just goes to show corrosion inhibitors may slow corrosion from nickel/copper contact from porous nickel plating, but not stop it.

By only examining corroded blocks, faulty plating seems excluded by design. Seems strange when large companies that specialize in nickel plating state the largest reason for nickel plating corroding is from pores/defects in nickel plating allowing dissimilar metals direct contact with fluid. Also surprising they use nickel plating to protect valves in seawater pumps at 3.5% saltwater that is a) very conductive and b) exposed to metal ions, yet even after years, the nickel coating looked pristine.

I think most people realize you know what the problem is.

What I think you fail to realize, yet, is the negative effect of in essence, calling everyone on several different forums all idiots by your conclusions.