Official EK statement - Nickel Plating Issues

[Annirak]

To clarify, it is no other forums/sites/organizations run by people who have been banned from XS. Once they're banned here, they no longer have a voice here; they cannot be linked and cannot be referenced or discussed. We're making a small exception on discussion just to clarify our stance. All further posts on the matter will be removed.

Thank you for explaining that, Vapor. In this particular instance, it's unfortunate that this policy excludes some rather pertinent information which, in turn, degrades the quality of discussion here from what it could be, but I understand the reasons for the policy.

[prznar1]

Thank you for explaining that, Vapor. In this particular instance, it's unfortunate that this policy excludes some rather pertinent information which, in turn, degrades the quality of discussion here from what it could be, but I understand the reasons for the policy.

true but pointless. look at that from xs point of view. they have to hold the line, otherwise all those "bad" (does not matter if they were bad or not) things will just takeover xs world. two edged blade. vapor said what he had to and eot.

now lets go back to EK.
Eddy pls say something about plating, not only about coolants.

[KingOfsorroW]

Eddy_EK
By "EC6" do you mean this coolant:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thec6noncoco.html

[prznar1]

i would guess that he is talking about all thermochill ec6 line. at least i hope.

[NaeKuh]

Eddy_EK
By "EC6" do you mean this coolant:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thec6noncoco.html

to be honest it would be any glycol based coolant.

Feser + Hydr-x + Pentosin, Zerex, anything which has (ethly/propyl) glycol dosed at greater then 33% concentration.

This is very unacceptable to people running injector style cpu blocks.

This would force people to run separate cpu only loops so they could mix loop coolant.... meaning cpu -> distilled gpu->premix, or your own mix.

This would also mean u could not use a nickle HF and not expect long running times on a recomended coolant, because you will get gelly buildup over time from using said coolant.

So its opening a new can of worms for eK, to sidestep the main problem.

[Vapor]

now lets go back to EK.
Eddy pls say something about plating, not only about coolants.

I also have a question about stainless steel in the loop. DDCs and D5s (and various other parts) have wetted stainless steel....is that okay? It's a dissimilar metal just like silver (not sure about its standard electrode potential). In your own Supreme HF blocks, you have wetted stainless steel in direct contact with the wetted copper/nickel-plated base, completing a circuit and opening the door to galvanic corrosion (not just 'crevice corrosion'), is that okay?

Speaking of standard electrode potential, I've been under the impression that silver and nickel are much more similar with their Anodic Index/Standard Calomel Electrode than what is listed on page 15 of the long report. My reference: http://www.corrosionist.com/galvanic...sion_chart.htm

[Phaseshift]

If you want to exchange it we will exchange it without a problem. But if you use coolant with anticorrosion additive based on our experience and tests you will not have any problems!

So what can I do then if I just use say Mayhems Dye with my distilled, what can I use so that my blocks won't be affected and still have protection since using PTNuke and Killcoil is not an option anymore?

My second question is:

Will you guys be sending resellers new blocks to replace their current stock?

[prznar1]

to be honest it would be any glycol based coolant.

Feser + Hydr-x + Pentosin dosed at greater then 33% concentration.

...
So its opening a new can of worms for eK, to sidestep the main problem.

from what i know that gelly is not made only by glycol, its a combination of few things and ec6 is free from gelly. so not all glycol based coolants will do that.

Will you guys be sending resellers new blocks to replace their current stock?

i will take a guess on that. it will not happen. issue is known, solution is here. so far it is the best... just avoid silver and pt nuke.

[NaeKuh]

from what i know that gelly is not made only by glycol, its a combination of few things and ec6 is free from gelly. so not all glycol based coolants will do that.

dont get me started on premix.
If you dont know me, i have a supreme hate for premix. (more then my D5 hatred)
Why? Because they are all CRAP.

Its quick way for a vendor to make money... Distilled + antifreeze + marketing label = PROFIT.
And the special ingredient which they use is some magical ratio of mix with color.

Seriously dont, I was one of the first in the stand against premix, and we won...
Also i bet i can make that thing gump up.

Heat + Pressure + time = buildup.

Now if you want to run a piss low flow loop, dont let me stop you.
But at that point id rather run copper straight blocks, then have to accept a premix.

[prznar1]

kk NaeKuh as you wish XD i just have a different point of view on premixes

i also missed something. good for EK that they will refund price tag of copper blocks.

and my friends are saying that i know english very well....

[Phaseshift]

from what i know that gelly is not made only by glycol, its a combination of few things and ec6 is free from gelly. so not all glycol based coolants will do that.



i will take a guess on that. it will not happen. issue is known, solution is here. so far it is the best... just avoid silver and pt nuke.

so what can I replace PT/Silver for?

I like EK, they can still correct this matter and I hope they take the proper steps. The community is screaming at them, they just need to listen.

[NaeKuh]

so what can I replace PT/Silver for?

I like EK, they can still correct this matter and I hope they take the proper steps. The community is screaming at them, they just need to listen.

you cant... thats the thing.. you need a corrosion inhibitor.

Because the plating failed, and the only way to fix it, is fix the plating.
If the plating didnt fail, it would give u a layer on top of the copper, so no electrolyte could go between the exposed metal.

Obviously that isn't happening.

[Odai]

Eddy, thanks for taking the time to post here.

With regards to the RMA process, as I already have a loop set up with an EK Supreme HF and am not planning to flush it until September, where does this leave me? Do I have any choice other than tearing down my loop and inspecting the block before the July 31st deadline?

The aforementioned CPU block also showed signs of damage before it was every put anywhere near any water. See the horizontal lines and discolouration towards the bottom of the micro-fins.



I've showed this photo on the forums a few times, and submitted it to EK's technical support.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=268292

You said yourself there wouldn't be any issue.

In light of these recent problems, I am now concerned that those marks are indeed the corroded Nickel. If so, how has that happened considering no contact with water had taken place?

I have an FC-460 block too with the same issue:



Is that the corrosion as well (the reddish brown marks in the centre of the photo)?

That block had only been used in a loop for a few weeks (again, distilled+CuSO4). The marks do not rub off, at all.

As the issue is specifically only occuring with EK's Nickel products, but not other vendors, shouldn't you be at least offering customer's refunds for defective blocks so that they have the choice of going for another vendor's products, instead of your own (which would rule out the common distilled water + CuSO4 choice for coolant)?

I have a third EK block here, the FC-560. It is unused. Can I safely assume it will suffer from the same problems if I also use distilled water and CuSO4 based biocides with it?

[prznar1]

so what can I replace PT/Silver for?

I like EK, they can still correct this matter and I hope they take the proper steps. The community is screaming at them, they just need to listen.

so far ec6 or at fsomething premixes. atleast as the eddy is saying. but you accualy cannot change it. there are even a users with failing nickle palting that were not using silver or pt nuke. it may happen with anything.

sure, everything can be undone. just a matter of will.

[NaeKuh]

so far ec6 or at fsomething premixes. atleast as the eddy is saying. but you accualy cannot change it. there are even a users with failing nickle palting that were not using silver or pt nuke. it may happen with anything.

sure, everything can be undone. just a matter of will.

You see thats what confused me even more... copper blocks are fine?

Then obviously the problem lies in the nickle.
Then if the nickle is reacting... and galvanic charts state nickle can not react in the level's we saw... well by deduction... is the nickle even nickle?

Or whats in the plating solution... did someone spill coffee in the acid bath?

[Phaseshift]

you cant... thats the thing.. you need a corrosion inhibitor.

Because the plating failed, and the only way to fix it, is fix the plating.
If the plating didnt fail, it would give u a layer on top of the copper, so no electrolyte could go between the exposed metal.

Obviously that isn't happening.

so far ec6 or at fsomething premixes. atleast as the eddy is saying. but you accualy cannot change it. there are even a users with failing nickle palting that were not using silver or pt nuke. it may happen with anything.

sure, everything can be undone. just a matter of will.

sigh...well I guess I'll just have to put off my WC then, I'm rooting for you EK, its not too late! I want you to take my money, just as long as we fix these issues hehe

[NaeKuh]

sigh...well I guess I'll just have to put off my WC then, I'm rooting for you EK, its not too late! I want you to take my money, just as long as we fix these issues hehe

if u bought them at sidewinder... return the blocks now.

Gary said he would refund full credit no questions asked on nickle ek products bought b4 60 days.

Your best option is return, exchange, and not worry about bs premix coolant.

Koolance - Aqua Computers - Swiftech - Bitspower - DD

Has excellent nickle that u dont need to use BS premix coolant.

the nightmares with premix do not justify the extra bling eK brings no matter what angle you look at it.

Im sorry eddy, but if ur forcing us to use aftermarket coolant, we will goto another vendor.
So Fix your plating.. or you will lose all your nickle block sales.

[KingOfsorroW]

to be honest it would be any glycol based coolant.

Feser + Hydr-x + Pentosin, Zerex, anything which has (ethly/propyl) glycol dosed at greater then 33% concentration.

This is very unacceptable to people running injector style cpu blocks.

This would force people to run separate cpu only loops so they could mix loop coolant.... meaning cpu -> distilled gpu->premix, or your own mix.

This would also mean u could not use a nickle HF and not expect long running times on a recomended coolant, because you will get gelly buildup over time from using said coolant.

So its opening a new can of worms for eK, to sidestep the main problem.

So, that's a gelly stuff Ek recommends to use? Like FluidXP? But it SUCKS... when I went from gelly fluid xp to water - I won about 5 degrees in temps several years ago...
Are there coolants with a more fluid (watery) consistence that would suit ek's requirements?

[NaeKuh]

Are there coolants with a more fluid (watery) consistence that would suit ek's requirements?

distilled + water wetter, but that will leave a nasty coaty slim on everything....

MEH...

Just dont get nickle EK blocks...

THIS PROBLEM ONLY LIES IN EK NICKLE U GUYS.

[prznar1]

You see thats what confused me even more... copper blocks are fine?

Then obviously the problem lies in the nickle.
Then if the nickle is reacting... and galvanic charts state nickle can not react in the level's we saw... well by deduction... is the nickle even nickle?

Or whats in the plating solution... did someone spill coffee in the acid bath?

i just rememberd something that i have seen years ago. and it was very similiar to the ek problems. guys that were having a problem knew that its a problem with plating proces without any tests. before going in to the plating shop they said what is causing the problem, and when they entered it they found all bad things with first look.

it is a nickle, but just done with wrong palting process.

[zalbard]

So, is anything going to happen on EK's part? Something to improve nickel plating process, slow down corrosion, improve durability of blocks?

[mcj66106]

Nickel plating starts out with a layer of copper (regardless of what the base material is) so the nickel can better adhere to the item being plated. Nickel and copper also are found in the same mines.

Here is some enlightening reading on the relationship between copper and nickel. (link)

As for this report, the smell of the fud was so strong by page 7 that I had to stop reading it.

Why would a copper block need to be copper plated in the first place? Use some common scene please.

[KingOfsorroW]

distilled + water wetter, but that will leave a nasty coaty slim on everything....

MEH...

Just dont get nickle EK blocks...

THIS PROBLEM ONLY LIES IN EK NICKLE U GUYS.

I know it's only ek-related problem - hence the reason i'm posting here. I run 4 ek nickel blocks in the system - one mobo fullcover wb and three gpu blocks.... really don't want to tear the system apart and change the blocks.
Could you link me to some water wetter you were talking about? That's even better than another luquid since I don't have to drain all of my loops...

[Phaseshift]

I dont know much about nickle and the plating process but can we take our own blocks to a place that does plating and have them do it? How much would the cost be for something like that?

[NaeKuh]

I run 4 ek nickel blocks in the system - one mobo fullcover wb and three gpu blocks.... really don't want to tear the system apart and change the blocks.
Could you link me to some water wetter you were talking about? That's even better than another luquid since I don't have to drain all of my loops...

do you have pets? children?

Because if you do, your really and honestly better off going a proply recipe as its less toxic..

I dont know much about nickle and the plating process but can we take our own blocks to a place that does plating and have them do it? How much would the cost be for something like that?

yes u can do that, and they charge per batch.
Typically its somewhere between 5-10 blocks per batch with single pricing.

That is why i asked u guys should clump together and do a batch quality nickle job, if ur insistent on keeping the blocks.