Laing DDC pump repair PCB mod

[Martinm210]

martin - i watched your video and noticed that the coil assembly came off while you were desoldering the wires. I'm thinking that the 10W pump has more winds on each of the 6 coils compared to the newer DDC3.1's giving the DDC3.1 higher RPM output and amp draw.

My question is, if anyone has tried re-winding the 10W pumps with lesser winds to bring it up to DDC3.1 specs and using the Toshiba pcb. If i had spare pumps to try out, i would do this. Count the number of winds/coil of the 18W version and wind the exact amount on the 10W version.

Yeah, I didn't intend for the coil to come out that way, it actually made more work for me in gluing it back in there, but it was easier to remove the coil wires that way without tweezers.

I'm not an electrical guy, but I assumed the winding difference was not so much the number of windings, but the orientation of the windings? The DDC3 series pumps have the windings wrapped parallel to the perimeter. Completely different magnets as well. You could always try it, but I don't have any deceased pumps left now...they have all been brought back to life..

I've notice that your are installing an heatsink on the SANYO PCB.
Is it usefull for the Toshiba too? It came just as showed before, w/o heatsink I mean. I'm using my revived pump @10V, it's a bit hot.

The pump on the left is the dead one. It has this coil :

This is the back of the revived one (sorry for no preview and bad soldering):

Swapping the red rotor with the blue one will make the pump operate better? I still have some probs understanding the color revisions of Laing impellers...

Not the smaller PCB version, it looks like it's made specifically for the Sanyo IC. I don't think there is room for it inside the case either on a DDC3 pump, there is just enough room for the toshiba PCB. The Sanyo also has the IC on the bottom where the Toshiba sits on top.

The Toshiba on the DDC-1 could use one of the magnets as a heat sink though, it sits about 3/4 directly below one of the large magnet flat spots, so I did just that when I did the DDC1/Toshiba. I scraped away the paint on the magnet and put some heavy/thick TIM on the IC. The DDC-1 also doesn't draw as much current on the Toshiba, so heat should be lower anyhow.

I would simply look into heatsinks for the casing base if you want to cool a DDC3.

He does have that decoupler/heatsink that extends beyond the base. That would help spread the heat:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DDC-pump-bottom-...ht_1207wt_1005

Or you could make your own, or Koolance, or Swiftech is coming out with one....lots of options.

Not sure on the impellers if it makes any difference or not. I know the current tops are designed for the smaller inlet opening on the blue impellers, so but I'm not sure what is different internally if anything.

I kind of like the Toshiba on the DDC1 pump as it is. It's quite a bit smoother in sound than the DDC3 pump and I suspect it's more powerful than the Sanyo on a DDC-1. The noise was a bit too much on the DDC3 for my taste, but it's not bad on the DDC-1. More tinkering and testing is in order on the Toshiba/DDC-1..

[m0r7if3r]

I'm not an electrical guy, but I assumed the winding difference was not so much the number of windings, but the orientation of the windings? The DDC3 series pumps have the windings wrapped parallel to the perimeter. Completely different magnets as well. You could always try it, but I don't have any deceased pumps left now...they have all been brought back to life..

Magnetic field is a function of the number of turns, so it does matter (biot savard law if you wanna buff up on the specifics)

[smanet]

Not the smaller PCB version, it looks like it's made specifically for the Sanyo IC. I don't think there is room for it inside the case either on a DDC3 pump, there is just enough room for the toshiba PCB. The Sanyo also has the IC on the bottom where the Toshiba sits on top.

The Toshiba on the DDC-1 could use one of the magnets as a heat sink though, it sits about 3/4 directly below one of the large magnet flat spots, so I did just that when I did the DDC1/Toshiba. I scraped away the paint on the magnet and put some heavy/thick TIM on the IC. The DDC-1 also doesn't draw as much current on the Toshiba, so heat should be lower anyhow.

I would simply look into heatsinks for the casing base if you want to cool a DDC3.

He does have that decoupler/heatsink that extends beyond the base. That would help spread the heat:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DDC-pump-bottom-...ht_1207wt_1005

Or you could make your own, or Koolance, or Swiftech is coming out with one....lots of options.

Not sure on the impellers if it makes any difference or not. I know the current tops are designed for the smaller inlet opening on the blue impellers, so but I'm not sure what is different internally if anything.

I kind of like the Toshiba on the DDC1 pump as it is. It's quite a bit smoother in sound than the DDC3 pump and I suspect it's more powerful than the Sanyo on a DDC-1. The noise was a bit too much on the DDC3 for my taste, but it's not bad on the DDC-1. More tinkering and testing is in order on the Toshiba/DDC-1..

Thanks Martin, I'll look for an heatsink mounted on the base. When I put the DIYINHK, I just scratched some glue from the coil base (but there weren't so much) and put the PCB on it, dunno if Toshiba chip is touching the metal.
I didn't know that tops were designed for the smaller hole in the blue impeller; I'm just looking now for the two original tops (one from a MCP355 and one from the older 18W DDC3.2, you can see both in some pictures I posted some posts ago) and are exactly the same. I should send you the red impeller to get some of your precious tests.
The strange fact is that my 18W pump, the famous red impeller one I revived, has a "flat" coil as DDC1, differently from the "flower-like" coil in DDC3.
I think Laing has changed coil/rotor combos during the marketing period of DDC3.2 / 1Plust-T.... Maybe I had a DDC1 coil with DDC3.2 motor driver...

UPDATE: I found this:

So this paces my doubts. I revived a DDC2 not a DDC1 and nor a DDC3.2 ..that's why I have DDC1 coil and still 18W.

[Martinm210]

Yeah, I'm kicking myself for throwing away my old DDC2 that I ran 30V through (My test power supply when bonkers and fried that one). It would have been a perfect candidate for one of these boards..

I can try impeller swaps, but I've only got a DDC1 (Black), DDC3.2(Blue), and DDC3.25(Blue/Orange) on hand.

While the new tops are narrowed up on the opening to better serve the DDC3 series pumps, they still work well in DDC1/2 pumps as well. Perhaps not perfect, but still a very good gain over stock.

I also have a pair of PTS DDCT-01 acetal tops that were designed for the old larger impeller inlets. They will now have a happy home on some modded DDC-1s...

[Martinm210]

FYI,
Finished up a couple more voltage runs on the Sanyo. 8V is really quiet as you might expect. The controller scales well with voltage control and since it doesn't take a ton of power you could probably do this with most fan controllers.

[Martinm210]

Added a noise comparison video to a DDC-1 and DDC 3.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCMiFDsNRHY

Cheers!
Martin

[lowfat]

The DDC-1 w/o the DIYINHK board sounds awful.

[Martinm210]

Funny thing is everyone complained when Laing went from the DDC2 to DDC3.2s because of power loss. While I was still pretty much a D5 user at the time, I don't remember too many people noting an improvement in noise.

It's pretty clear to me there was a really good improvement in noise from the DDC1/2 series to DDC3 series.

Fortunately the Sanyo PCB brings the otherwise gritty/buzzy DDC1/2 series to nearly DDC3 smoothness. Subjectively I think there is actually a little bit less high pitched whine, while a bit more buzz. BUT...that's a bit apples/oranges with the 18w vs 12w comparison. I don't have any DDC3.1s so I just threw it in there for a secondary comparison.

[Sideroxylon]

Added a noise comparison video to a DDC-1 and DDC 3.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCMiFDsNRHY

Cheers!
Martin

Martin why is there never any commentary from you in your vids? Your vids are great but they'd be better with a bit of narration.

[Church]

Martin: imho most actual voltage step is not 8V but 7V, as it can be directly got from molex by simple wire swap.

[Martinm210]

Martin why is there never any commentary from you in your vids? Your vids are great but they'd be better with a bit of narration.

That's my style..I just like letting the data do the talking and let the user make their own judgments. Narration during noise testing doesn't work either...screws up the meter with its slow response time, so it would have to be mixed in post processing. Not sure what to say...Listen carefullly?..

[wizard1238]

Martin: imho most actual voltage step is not 8V but 7V, as it can be directly got from molex by simple wire swap.

should be very careful, the sanyo board damage immediately if the + - power is reverse connected. and some motherboard cannot read the rpm signal if the low level is 5V not the normal 0V
it's better use a good fan controller to varies the speed

[Church]

wizard1238: better, right. But molex 7V mod is cheapest of them all. Nice for price/performancy builds. And to regulate DDC from controller controller must handle relatively lot of power per channel.

[Martinm210]

FYI, I tested the Toshiba PCB on Bmaverick's DDC-1 he sent over. It is slightly more powerful than the Sanyo version, but not quite the extreme of the DDC3 install. It is more noisy though, so as a personal preference, I would go with the Sanyo for the better noise quality on DDC-1 pumps.

Also of some interesting note: The Toshiba on a DDC-1 is extremely efficient. Darn near hit 29% efficiency which is probably the best to date on any pump I've tested. As you can also see, the Sanyo consumes about the same power as the Toshiba yet produces less pumping power.

In the end, the Toshiba produces more pumping power and more electrically efficient, but the Sanyo is more silent on a DDC-1. Both provide some gains in pumping power over the Laing controller though.

[m_jones_]

The next project is PWM control the sanyo board, but it's already very silent at 12V, is it need to speed down

Any update since im looking to replace my 18w 3.2 burnt pcb ?
Thanks

[Martinm210]

I don't think the Sanyo can handle DDC3 series pumps. Per the Sanyo tech specs, max current is 1.5 amps. I hit 2.5 amps on the toshiba based DDC3 series pump, so it probably wouldn't work at 12v. Maybe at really low volts, but I think the Toshiba is the only option for DDC3 pumps at 12v, per specs it should handle 2.5 amps and testing seems to support that in short term tests.

[bmaverick]

More data by Martin has been added since my last visit here. The new charts for comparison are really easy to understand. That I like. LOL

I have a few of the rare DDC2 pumps never used, still new. These are more of a collectors interest rather than running them.

[Sparky]

Also of some interesting note: The Toshiba on a DDC-1 is extremely efficient. Darn near hit 29% efficiency which is probably the best to date on any pump I've tested.

At first glance 29% efficiency sounds pretty horrid lol

[mib]

I have a moded pump using TB6588FG. On PCB there is a revolution reading. Is it really working??

[Martinm210]

At first glance 29% efficiency sounds pretty horrid lol

Yeah, small centrifugal pumps are very low in efficiency. A better part of the power consumed is converted to heat. 29% is actually the best I've ever measured though.. D5's for example are usually half that.

I have a moded pump using TB6588FG. On PCB there is a revolution reading. Is it really working??

Yes, I got it to work, but it's not following the standard fan 2 pulses per revolution (I think it's 6). It's much higher and will give you a reading that is what I presume to be about 3X higher than actual. Some fan controllers will let you correct up for this, but if not you can divide by 3 and be in the ballpark.

I "Assumed" that RPM = Hz x 10 instead of the Hz x 30 normal conversion in this test, but I'm not sure if that's correct or not. It seems reasonable is all.

[mib]

Yes, I got it to work, but it's not following the standard fan 2 pulses per revolution (I think it's 6). It's much higher and will give you a reading that is what I presume to be about 3X higher than actual. Some fan controllers will let you correct up for this, but if not you can divide by 3 and be in the ballpark.

I "Assumed" that RPM = Hz x 10 instead of the Hz x 30 normal conversion in this test, but I'm not sure if that's correct or not. It seems reasonable is all.

In that case it doesn't matter I got team of aquaero and poweradjust 2 and they heve got settings. Thanks for information.

[jalyst]

@wizard1238 or anyone,

Do you sell a PCB mod kit that offers a nice speed bump for the MCP35x?

According to your site, it doesn't look like you do yet...
But I'm still interested in knowing whether such a mod. is feasible for the MCP35x.

And if so, soldering it in won't kill the MCP35x's PWM abilities, will it?

I would prefer a pre-assembled option....
But that's probably unlikely until swiftech releases their latest/greatest MCP3xxx!

Finally....
Do you have plans for a heatsink/decoupler for the MCP35x built into the MCR Drive series?

[lowfat]

Of course changing the pcb on the MCP 35x would cause it to loose pwm control.

[TJ TRICHEESE]

but doesn't the toshiba controller support pwm

[jalyst]

but doesn't the toshiba controller support pwm

Does it really? Please let it be true!
From a pure performance/efficiency stand-point, the Toshiba's considered the best so far, right?

I was hoping if pwm is part of the pcb that's removed, that the ideal pcb one's swapping-in would return that functionality.
I wonder if a removal & a swap-in would be much harder to do on a mcp35x built into the MCR Drive?

Hmm, maybe it's time to go buy a heatgun and a soldering-iron

Admittedly I'd prefer someone more experienced to do the job, & I'd pay them for their labour/expenses.
But I doubt that'll be an option....