Aquatuning/Phobya Fail

[kinghong1970]

dunno guys... ok let's address the issue for what it is and try to keep an open mind.

many companies have had consumer design contests and this is a very interesting, if not great marketing tool... and so as for this contest, call it as you see it... an interesting marketing tool by AT to involve their consumers participation and perhaps even increase brand recognition + loyalty... kata bag manufacturers have also done this and i'm sure there are others as well.

so as for the contest, fine... i don't think it's actually a means of a company trying to get the design work for free...
correct me if i'm wrong but it does seem that this is a community based competition...

if any company's sole objective is to get cheap designs, heck, mick's detailed log is enough for anyone to knock it off and produce it cheaper and not only him but there are many others who've dabbled into custom design and building of cases that are posted in these "public" forums... and copyright protection are just that, words... they carry very little weight in actual and legal protection... unless someone can afford a heavy legal retainer for representation.

now AT does not get off that easily too...
seems your reputation has been tainted by the XS community and perhaps you should address this issue before venturing off into other projects... because as far as i see it, any and all marketing attempts will be tainted by your actions that has caused many wc'ing members to be upset.

[Sadasius]

Wow! Really? This is what this has come too. Look I vote with my wallet, it's called capitalism. I have been dissed by several popular manufactures including Asus and Corsair and if I don't like a company I just don't buy from them. This forum is supposed to be about water cooling, how it is done, innovative design, etc., not politics or personal grudges. Personally, I think we need to focus on the hobby and not the drama surrounding it.

Not usually the dramatic type and I am pretty good at keeping a level head but these guys directly affected our community. They are the only European retailers who can sell all the stuff they Tradmarked cornering the market and control on pricing. Let's say if your Koolance and you wish to channel your products into the European market. Well you will have Aquatuning to contend with as they own your Trademark in Europe. Nobody can sell your stuff without them suing you for Trademark infringement. So that market is screwed but open now for Aquatuning's blocks, rads etc because they have effectively blocked you out, are able to sell their stuff way cheaper making them look like the obvious choice in Europe. So now this cuts into R&D, contests, sponsorships etc which directly affects us here.

dunno guys... ok let's address the issue for what it is and try to keep an open mind.

many companies have had consumer design contests and this is a very interesting, if not great marketing tool... and so as for this contest, call it as you see it... an interesting marketing tool by AT to involve their consumers participation and perhaps even increase brand recognition + loyalty... kata bag manufacturers have also done this and i'm sure there are others as well.

so as for the contest, fine... i don't think it's actually a means of a company trying to get the design work for free...
correct me if i'm wrong but it does seem that this is a community based competition...

if any company's sole objective is to get cheap designs, heck, mick's detailed log is enough for anyone to knock it off and produce it cheaper and not only him but there are many others who've dabbled into custom design and building of cases that are posted in these "public" forums... and copyright protection are just that, words... they carry very little weight in actual and legal protection... unless someone can afford a heavy legal retainer for representation.

now AT does not get off that easily too...
seems your reputation has been tainted by the XS community and perhaps you should address this issue before venturing off into other projects... because as far as i see it, any and all marketing attempts will be tainted by your actions that has caused many wc'ing members to be upset.

This cuts deeper then them trying to steal designs which as you pointed out they could have simply done awhile ago from the available info in the public thread but I am sure the one reason why they have not is because of a threat if someone wanted to sue them. But if they can them freely then it's a different story. It's fair game! Just letting people know what type of people are behind this competition which I think should not be allowed here at all.

[kinghong1970]

Not usually the dramatic type and I am pretty good at keeping a level head but these guys directly affected our community. They are the only European retailers who can sell all the stuff they Tradmarked cornering the market and control on pricing. Let's say if your Koolance and you wish to channel your products into the European market. Well you will have Aquatuning to contend with as they own your Trademark in Europe. Nobody can sell your stuff without them suing you for Trademark infringement. So that market is screwed but open now for Aquatuning's blocks, rads etc because they have effectively blocked you out, are able to sell their stuff way cheaper making them look like the obvious choice in Europe. So now this cuts into R&D, contests, sponsorships etc which directly affects us here.

This cuts deeper then them trying to steal designs which as you pointed out they could have simply done awhile ago from the available info in the public thread but I am sure the one reason why they have not is because of a threat if someone wanted to sue them. But if they can them freely then it's a different story. It's fair game! Just letting people know what type of people are behind this competition which I think should not be allowed here at all.

noted and well said but... speaking of their actions regarding the trademark... well founded and as a community, we have the right to be upset... our argument has weight...

making claims of this being their plot to steal designs... we will just seem like a bunch of upset folks making issues without any basis on facts.

i agree, the incidents regarding the trademark is very shady and poor actions on their behalf... and yes, unless this is resolved, my money will have to go elsewhere...

i guess what i'm getting at is... fight the right fight...

[millertime359]

noted and well said but... speaking of their actions regarding the trademark... well founded and as a community, we have the right to be upset... our argument has weight...

making claims of this being their plot to steal designs... we will just seem like a bunch of upset folks making issues without any basis on facts.

i agree, the incidents regarding the trademark is very shady and poor actions on their behalf... and yes, unless this is resolved, my money will have to go elsewhere...

i guess what i'm getting at is... fight the right fight...

Good point.

Though, seeing they had no issues doing a trademark grab, who is to say they have no issue "stealing" designs?

I think it is more a trust issue in the company. They have already shown that they can't be trusted, so how can we as a community trust this contest?

[prava]

Guys, c'mon, hold your horses. I consider totally logic and honest to add info about what AT did with many trademarks not long ago...but to do that one post is more than enough. There is no need to troll the whole page when what needed to be said it's already there. Just because you repeat it over and over won't make your message more clear. Besides, I think everybody should have the right to decide what is morally acceptable and what is not, and thus we shall stop trolling and let the community decide.

And yes, this certainly hurts XS image because when the community allows a group of people to bash something all day long (be it a company, user...whatever) not only you are changing the topic on the discussion that was ongoing but you are creating unfriendliness among users and will let to flame wars (because somebody will say that he bought an AT product that was great and the other parts will answer...and so on), and that is never good in any forum nor community.

What is the solution? The solution to this problem is really simple. When somebody posts something you do not like:
a) You choose not to post.
b) You choose to post being clear why you do not agree/like and only answer if expected to do so.

In the case of AT, we don't need 10 users saying the same stuff, just one of'em is more than enough to educate people, and if you are ready to take it as long as it gets then create a sticker in the WC section (well-written, obviously) so that everybody is aware of the situation (or, as some suggested, ban AT from this page...but that would be a mess because probably not everybody shares the same vision and banning stuff is NEVER the solution. Educating IS).


On this contest by AT I have to say a few things:
It is clear why they do this. Both PR & free designs are the things they will get. BUT they offer a chance that normally nobody ever gets: the chance to get the case you spent countless hours in, and lets be honest here, how many people will be able to see their design as real without a contest like this? 0.1%? Maybe even less? This is a opportunity that has its pros and cons, and as it is we should encourage people to decide on their own, and that is all. Some people will never ever ever ever allow AT to have any of their designs...and some other people will don't care about who AT is or what did they do as long as they get their case.

All in all welcome to the real world...