Nvidia confirms the GTX 580

[Sn0wm@n]

so the engineer can decide if they want more power out of their architecture that they took years to develop ... didnt they allready knew how much it would give them in the begining ...

i think the nvidia drivers pretty much milked the most ou of the fermi familly ... any gains beyond that is simple game optimisation and is taken on a case by case basis ...


i wouldnt expect a huge gain over the board ... and that's kind of what you sugested earlier

Besides pricing, performance wise, i think I have been more optimistic for AMD than atleast my expectations for Nvidia. I still have a feeling cayman xt is going to be 500 dollars, especially if it significantly faster than fermi(which I think it will be).

500$ for a single gpu card .... lolll



id expect that sort of price for antilles ... not cayman

[Hey Zeus]

IMO the biggest problem with fermi is the reference fan design. It's focking HORRIBLE, cools for crap and is so loud over 60%. Look at the dual and triple fan solutions from arctic. Cools great with little or no noise. Nvidia should contract them to design a dual slot cooler that can actually cool fermi.

As for the 580.. Meh.. I don't expect THAT much from it. Maybe 5-10% but i have a feeling the price is going to be absolute bull.

Nvidia.. Give us a pair of full GF104 chips on a single PCB. Thats what we want.

[tajoh111]

so the real question is why did nvidia didnt do it allready???


fab problems maybe???



@tajoh111: ok they need a big overhaul .. but how much time will it take them in general to pull it off ???


a while .. and why is the R300 hyped cayman an overhyped card .. it didnt even come from amd's mouth ... its a rumor for now ... but all the specs we saw wich could be true or false does seem to go in that direction ... and no im not trolling .. im just trying to understand how this big single chip fermi deal could be pulled off ....


its been how much time since we started to hear about respin of the gf100 chip to make it work .. yet no full chip ... so its either a redesign to cut of the unneeded gpgpu features ... but how long does that take before we see it on market .. and will it be better to just wait for 28nm and bring those options on 28nm instead ...

If NV should learn from AMD anything, it is that they should make test cards to learn from processes(4770) or find optimal configurations(5830). To me, this might mean playing on 40nm a bit more so they are more prepared to make a good 28nm card off the bat or atleast increase their chances to do so. NV could learn a thing or two from AMD how to get launches on time and slowly transition changes(e.g direct 10.1, tesselator), rather than try to brute force everything at once to get mixed results.

Pricing on the gtx 580 is supposed to be the same as the gtx 480. This is another reason why I think cayman xt is going to be priced like 500 dollars because I think they are invading fermi's pricing space, along with the new name and the pricing of the 5870(its going to be more expensive than this).

[SamHughe]

IMO the biggest problem with fermi is the reference fan design. It's focking HORRIBLE, cools for crap and is so loud over 60%.

Over 60%? It's too noisy above 40% to me. I friggin HATE the sucker. Unfortunately, I'm stuck with it.

[highoctane]

so the real question is why did nvidia didnt do it allready???
fab problems maybe???

My first guess for one is they have to divide and prioritize their resources into finishing and releasing the entire product lineup first, top end is not the largest source of revenue and volume after all.

I'm sure Nvidia has produced plenty of ES respins in house for validation, they'll release to the public when the time is right for them which we should all hope will be soon.

I doubt it has anything to do with fab problems, the availability of current gf100 based units alone should be a testament to that.

[Sn0wm@n]

If NV should learn from AMD anything, it is that they should make test cards to learn from processes(4770) or find optimal configurations(5830)..

agreed ... nvidia should have had a decent sized test vehicule ..

To me, this might mean playing on 40nm a bit more so they are more prepared to make a good 28nm card off the bat or atleast increase their chances to do so. NV could learn a thing or two from AMD how to get launches on time and slowly transition changes(e.g direct 10.1, tesselator), rather than try to brute force everything at once to get mixed results.
.

exactly .. they need to transition slowly .. but i think its upper management that is pushing the engineer into something harder to do each generation ...

Pricing on the gtx 580 is supposed to be the same as the gtx 480. This is another reason why I think cayman xt is going to be priced like 500 dollars because I think they are invading fermi's pricing space, along with the new name and the pricing of the 5870(its going to be more expensive than this).

if a dual 460 aka gtx580 is priced at 500$ it doesnt mean amd will follow suit ... cayman could beat it or simply come close by 5% or so and leave the killing blow to antilles for the 500$ or so gpu pricing crown ....


that's why i think cayman doesnt need to be priced at 500$ to competitione nvidia's current offering


and all of that leave cayman pro ... and xt around the 300$ or so msrp ... and antilles at a 400 - 500$ msrp

[tajoh111]

agreed ... nvidia should have had a decent sized test vehicule ..





exactly .. they need to transition slowly .. but i think its upper management that is pushing the engineer into something harder to do each generation ...






if a dual 460 aka gtx580 is priced at 500$ it doesnt mean amd will follow suit ... cayman could beat it or simply come close by 5% or so and leave the killing blow to antilles for the 500$ or so gpu pricing crown ....


that's why i think cayman doesnt need to be priced at 500$ to competitione nvidia's current offering


and all of that leave cayman pro ... and xt around the 300$ or so msrp ... and antilles at a 400 - 500$ msrp

The 5970, especially in Canada sold for more 700 dollars or more. A 500 dollar antilles is a fantasy unless its built on barts. I don't see how you can be so optimistic about pricing when the under 150 category is gone for the moment? Barts xt is the successor to the 5770 and its price 80 dollar more. Antilles is the successor to the 5970 which was 700 dollars, and antilles is using 2 bigger, faster and hotter chips. I don't see how you think things are going to get cheaper, when the chips themselves even are getting bigger(and I think for this size increase, AMD is charging a tad too much, even Charlie(AMD greatest supporter, Nvidia greatest enemy) agrees with me on this one.)

[spursindonesia]

500$ for a single gpu card .... lolll
id expect that sort of price for antilles ... not cayman

I'm plenty optimist & positive regarding AMD graphic, but your expectation is the one that can be called dreaming mate, no offense.

Especially if Cayman is THAT good, i won't expect it to be priced lower than HD 5870 launch MSRP, beetween US$ 429-469 most likely. I believe it won't be priced north of US$ 499 limit (that will create a very bad buzz among consumers, reduces the goodwill built up to this point, and put a squeeze on Antilles pricing strategy), put my posting right on the line, but AMD can use more profit if the card warranted its price.

As good as Cayman would be, i can't believe it would be clearly twice faster on average than Bart in real gaming. Bart's street prices are gonna decrease by the time Cayman got launched, it has to be factored as input in Cayman pricing decision IMHO.

Antilles ? Now we're talking, this is the big gun, undisputed king of the hill (unlike HD 5970 which was disputed by nVidia fanbois using minimum frame rate, microstuttering, etc argument). AMD has more leeway in its pricing strategy, as flagship product that caters to limited segment, the price sensitivity of its potential buyers would be low, and it won't generate a bad buzz even if the performance doesn't really warrant the price tag slapped on it. I expect MSRP beetween US$ 729-799, perhaps even more if the supply is rather limited because of Cayman high sales rate & the demand is relatively aplenty. Company still loves profit, you know.

EDIT:

I might very well be wrong, and i hope i'm wrong, that the pricing would be lower than the number written above. I love to be wrong that way, i really do, hehehe.

[Sn0wm@n]

My first guess for one is they have to divide and prioritize their resources into finishing and releasing the entire product lineup first, top end is not the largest source of revenue and volume after all.

I'm sure Nvidia has produced plenty of ES respins in house for validation, they'll release to the public when the time is right for them which we should all hope will be soon.

I doubt it has anything to do with fab problems, the availability of current gf100 based units alone should be a testament to that.

fab problem to create a full card werent enough ???? i know GF100 isnt the bread and butter of a generation ... but amd and intel are moving into that market very fast with fusion products ....

so what does that leave nvidia with ???? overly big chip to try and maintain market share to repay fab cost and R&D .. while amd enjoyed 1 year with their dx11 lineup so they had lots of time to milk the cow ...

I'm plenty optimist & positive regarding AMD graphic, but your expectation is the one that can be called dreaming mate, no offense.

Especially if Cayman is THAT good, i won't expect it to be priced lower than HD 5870 launch MSRP, beetween US$ 429-469 most likely. I believe it won't be priced north of US$ 499 limit (that will create a very bad buzz among consumers, reduces the goodwill built up to this point, and put a squeeze on Antilles pricing strategy), put my posting right on the line, but AMD can use more profit if the card warranted its price.

As good as Cayman would be, i can't believe it would be clearly twice faster on average than Bart in real gaming. Bart's street prices are gonna decrease by the time Cayman got launched, it has to be factored as input in Cayman pricing decision IMHO.

Antilles ? Now we're talking, this is the big gun, undisputed king of the hill (unlike HD 5970 which was disputed by nVidia fanbois using minimum frame rate, microstuttering, etc argument). AMD has more leeway in its pricing strategy, as flagship product that caters to limited segment, the price sensitivity of its potential buyers would be low, and it won't generate a bad buzz even if the performance doesn't really warrant the price tag slapped on it. I expect MSRP beetween US$ 729-799, perhaps even more if the supply is rather limited because of Cayman high sales rate & the demand is relatively aplenty. Company still loves profit, you know.

so what are they going to fill the pricing with ... the gap from 250$ to 350$ might be filled by cayman pro .. but cayman xt would go from 350 to 500 ????



and antilles would automaticly go into the 1000$ if its that good ....

[Xoulz]

By increasing shader performance in games and decreasing shader performance for cGPU, which requires a vast overhaul of everything.

If you look at fermi performance in cGPU applications, it actually shows why it consumes so much power.

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/NVIDI...Review/?page=2

It typically doubles and can occasionally triple the performance of a v8800(which is based on the 5870). Not only that, this card isn't even closed to being a full speced fermi and has much lower clocks.

Fermi as it is right now, is not a scalable GPU for the future(it is a scalable cGPU for the future though). Its probably why Intel gave up an larrabee. Its difficult and probably impossible to make a card that does both.



Are u purposely trying to troll? I have been emphasizing they need a redesign, I said nothing of a respin doing all that. I said with the current architecture, they won't catch cayman for performance per watt, at best catch up to performance but with higher power consumption.

CUDU cores are inneffecient...

[spursindonesia]

so what are they going to fill the pricing with ... the gap from 250$ to 350$ might be filled by cayman pro .. but cayman xt would go from 350 to 500 ????



and antilles would automaticly go into the 1000$ if its that good ....

How about this, Bart XT MSRP US$ 239 street price (with non reference PCB) US$ 219, Cayman LE (sometime down the road ala HD 5830 & 4830) US$ 299, Cayman Pro US$ 369, Cayman XT US$ 449.

Cayman LE, slower than GTX 570 but will beat the chit out of GTX 560 (US$ 249), with plenty OCing room & good value (if AMD ever learns with their stupid HD 5830 over crippling mistake).

Cayman Pro, faster than GTX 570 (US$ 379) slower than GTX 580

Cayman XT, slightly (?) faster than GTX 580 (US$ 499).

nVidia can get away with pricing their products higher than the performance warranted, they have a stong fanbase, good brand recognition, and like it or not, their propietary B$ features are decent sales points.

Regards.

[highoctane]

but amd and intel are moving into that market very fast with fusion products ....

Well really both AMD and Nvidia will get squeezed by Intel at the entry level (which is huge considering Intels marketshare) if folks don't upgrade to discrete gpus.

so what does that leave nvidia with ???? overly big chip to try and maintain market share to repay fab cost and R&D .. while amd enjoyed 1 year with their dx11 lineup so they had lots of time to milk the cow ...

Sure AMD has had allot of time in the market with the first DX11 video cards but Nvidia has basically sold just as many video cards without DX11 when looking at marketshare numbers.

and antilles would automaticly go into the 1000$ if its that good ....

Intel Xtreme cpus and back in the day AMD had the FX selling at that price point and thats just a tiny piece of silicon in your hand for that price. If the market will bear it and the performance warrant's the price tag its not totally out of the realm of possibilities.

[Sn0wm@n]

i think we are all close on the cayman pricing saying its in the 280 to 350 range or so ...and that leaves headroom for non refference oc edition cayman boards .. and non refference antilles boards will gladly take the 600+ price range


i might be off on cayman pro .. but not by much ....

Well really both AMD and Nvidia will get squeezed by Intel at the entry level (which is huge considering Intels marketshare) if folks don't upgrade to discrete gpus.



Sure AMD has had allot of time in the market with the first DX11 video cards but Nvidia has basically sold just as many video cards without DX11 when looking at marketshare numbers.



Intel Xtreme cpus and back in the day AMD had the FX selling at that price point and thats just a tiny piece of silicon in your hand for that price. If the market will bear it and the performance warrant's the price tag its not totally out of the realm of possibilities.

amd do have fusions apu planned for release real soon .. so i wouldnt count them out of the integrated market this fast ....


and yes i do remember the fx62 and other chips of that kind in the 900$ price range ....

[Chickenfeed]

Even if whatever this GTX580 turns out to be matches / exceeds Caymen XT, theres no way in hell AMDs dual gpu card will MSRP for less than 600USD. It will most likely be around 650, with Caymen XT in the upper 400 segment.

[Sn0wm@n]

LOL why would cayman be in the high 450$ range ??? because its so good on paper ????

its not like bart is priced at 300$ or so ....

[cegras]

Over 60%? It's too noisy above 40% to me. I friggin HATE the sucker. Unfortunately, I'm stuck with it.

For the amount of air it is tasked to dissipate, can't really go much better than a Delta.

[kuroikenshi]

how the hell will nvidia pull off 30% less power while adding more performance???


isnt there such things as physics limitation in this world of ours

no no, maybe physics limitation, but not Physx, that piece of crap code is as infinite as the known universe....

[tajoh111]

I'm plenty optimist & positive regarding AMD graphic, but your expectation is the one that can be called dreaming mate, no offense.

Especially if Cayman is THAT good, i won't expect it to be priced lower than HD 5870 launch MSRP, beetween US$ 429-469 most likely. I believe it won't be priced north of US$ 499 limit (that will create a very bad buzz among consumers, reduces the goodwill built up to this point, and put a squeeze on Antilles pricing strategy), put my posting right on the line, but AMD can use more profit if the card warranted its price.

As good as Cayman would be, i can't believe it would be clearly twice faster on average than Bart in real gaming. Bart's street prices are gonna decrease by the time Cayman got launched, it has to be factored as input in Cayman pricing decision IMHO.

Antilles ? Now we're talking, this is the big gun, undisputed king of the hill (unlike HD 5970 which was disputed by nVidia fanbois using minimum frame rate, microstuttering, etc argument). AMD has more leeway in its pricing strategy, as flagship product that caters to limited segment, the price sensitivity of its potential buyers would be low, and it won't generate a bad buzz even if the performance doesn't really warrant the price tag slapped on it. I expect MSRP beetween US$ 729-799, perhaps even more if the supply is rather limited because of Cayman high sales rate & the demand is relatively aplenty. Company still loves profit, you know.

EDIT:

I might very well be wrong, and i hope i'm wrong, that the pricing would be lower than the number written above. I love to be wrong that way, hehehe.

I don't think that good will really means much and AMD would rather be profitable. I think AMD pricing as of late has been entirely about gaining marketshare. But with 80 percent of the directx 11 market, that battle is won. In terms of sales, rv8xx has been wildly successful, but looking at their net profits, you could not tell that, especially for a company purchased for 5.4 billion dollars. AMD made like 8 million dollars for their graphic division last quarter and their R and D expense last quarter was below average compared to earlier quarters. If I was an AMD stockholder, I would want them to increase their prices. Because although they have fabulous technology and engineers considering their budget, AMD how its runs business is not particulary efficient. In addition the sales of the 5970 has showed that cards can get pretty darn expensive and people will still buy.

[cold2010]

512 Core GTX580 complete exposure of the official detailed specifications

[zalbard]

OK, now that's seriously unimpressive if true... And I do not see how it deserves being called GTX580 at all... GTX485 at best.

[zerazax]

Like I said... there were facts out there on the specs, and some just chose to ignore em. It really is looking like what GF100 should have been

[kuroikenshi]

Like I said... there were facts out there on the specs, and some just chose to ignore em. It really is looking like what GF100 should have been

so this product might be as impressive as a gtx460......

[kadozer]

Doesn't look like 20% claims are valid from that table.

[ajaidev]

The specs seem BS if they are real then its not gonna be a very good performer. You all remmber the GF100 with 512 SP's that was tested:





http://en.expreview.com/2010/08/07/m...osed/9018.html

Also expreview says its a 6+8 design:

"opening has been canceled, with The slight increase in turbo-fan diameter, a result of noise should be restraint. 此外，显卡正面搭载了12颗GDDR5显存颗粒，具备6pin+8pin的辅助供电接口。 In addition, the graphics card equipped with a 12 front GDDR5 memory particles, with a 6pin +8 pin auxiliary power interface."

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...f2eLS7kITxR84g

[qcmadness]

so this product might be as impressive as a gtx460......

GF110 may be GF104 scaled up to GF100 performance...