Quote Originally Posted by SiGfever View Post

A lot of anger has been expressed against Laing for their pump quality, but as NeaKuh stated we alter their design and increase the load on the pumps for a boost in performance for our rigs. Is this their fault? I think not. The moment you decide to "Mod" something you own the responsibility for your actions. And to whether another company such as XSPC tests their tops to the standards and detail that a company with Laing's reputation does is questionable at best. If you do not like the DDC series, simple, do not buy them. There are other options in the market today to meet most people's needs. 5
Well, this is completely wrong. There is a thing in the law known as "foreseeable misuse", which means that a pump manufacturer must design its pumps with the idea that some customers will intentionally misuse their pump in a foreseeable way. [e.g., ladder manufacturers must foresee that some bonehead will buy their ladder and stand on the very top apex of the ladder, which everybody knows is a misuse of the product, but which every manufacturer must guard against, or be held liable for any injury caused thereby; so they must ensure that the top of the ladder can handle the load of a 250-300 lb fat American lame-brain, and they must put warnings on the top step saying "DO NOT STAND ON THE TOP STEP" in bright yellow letters no less than 2 inches in size, and even that only serves to mitigate their liability, not absolve it]. The same goes for pump manufacturers, and especially Laing, since they know to a moral certainty that the people purchasing their pumps are trying to overvolt them and/ or mount after-market tops on them to increase the head pressure of the pump. So, under the law, the Laing pumps should be designed to handle this type of "modification", which we really should be calling "foreseeable misuse", or they should affix a warning that changing the operating parameters of the pump "may cause significant property damage, fire and/ or serious personal injury or even death", or something like this. Failing to do so, IMHO, makes them complicit in the foreseeable misuse of their pumps (since they are eager to make a profit from the customers who foreseeably misuse their pumps, i.e., the "mod community"), and furthermore it makes them liable for the failure of their pumps. But, like in the ladder example, a warning would only serve to partially mitigate their liability for damages, and would not absolve them from liability.

Quote Originally Posted by jayhall0315 View Post
Dear Performance PCs, Frozen CPU, Swiftech, Danger Den, Sidewinder Computers, Crazy PC, Xoxide, Petra Tech, Coolerguys, and numerous others ......

Perhaps it is the foul mood I am in from ordering stuff which simply does not work or is said to be 'engineered' when in fact it was designed by some dip$hit on photoshop, who failed pre-calculus in high school, took no physics (ever) and whose only experience with real engineering was watching some project on the Discovery channel, but here are a few simple rules to live by if you want to earn business and keep repeat customers happy:

1 - Only list on your website what you directly have in stock. None of this Petra Tech crap where you list all kinds of crap that is always out of stock. That is foogling (fishing for folks thru Google matches) that simply makes me rather give the sale to someone else. An example of a non liquid cooling retailer would be Provantage ... I avoid them like the plague.

2 - It does not cost $14 to ship 20 rubber o-rings by USPS priority mail. So stop the lying and BS, and simply charge what it really costs. Some of you do, .... and .....some of you dont, and try to take on an extra 5% under the table (thru trumped up shipping charges). My message to you....GFY. If it honestly costs $4.80 to send something from New York to California, then charge the customer $4.80..... exactly.

3 - It is fine to take a cut for yourself... after all ... it is a damn business and not a charity. You are in it to make money, for yourself, .... but window stripping does not cost $1.50 per foot, tubing does not cost $1 per foot, Tygon does not cost $3 per foot and barbs do not cost $8 for one compression fitting. If that is what the nut jobs at Bitspower say you have to pay, .... give em the international symbol of good will, ... and go make your own contract. (trust me, it will not cost you even $1 to have a fitting made on a decent Chinese or Taiwanese line).

If you want to know how things should run, look at how Michelle at Swiftech gets stuff done. Lets say my Apogee XT block came with a bent bolt or missing nut .... No questions asked, ...no BS, simply gets the address and phone number and 3 days later you get what you need. Also, Alex (the original owner of Petras) did a fairly good job of getting stuff returned or fixed.

Quit with the BS, ... and be honest - Jay
Well, hmm, this one, what can I say? First let me say that not everyone who opens a business is obligated to give you the best and most fair deal in the universe. In a capitalist system the price you pay is the price the market will bear. As such, if $20 for shipping is the price people are willing to pay, then that is the price that you will be charged. Prices are set by the forces of supply and demand in the market, and the free market will always set that price at the point where the majority of customers are just on the edge of being unwilling to pay more. [This is the heart of basic micro-economics, and if you didn't know this, well then I may have just taught you one semester's worth of econ 101, if so, then you're welcome.] Now, if you do not like the price set by the free market, you can do one of two things: (1) join the communist party and start a revolution that eradicates the free market system and sets prices by the fiat of the Politburo, or (2) start your own on-line water cooling shop (or invest in one started by somebody else) to increase the supply and thereby lower the price for everybody. If you are unwilling, or unable, to do either of these things, then you should probably just learn to lump it.

Now that being said, I do understand your frustration at feeling "ripped off". These stores should be more transparent about what they are actually charging you, when they charge you "$14 to ship 20 O-rings" (a story which sounds apocryphal to me, btw), in order to avoid this type of anger. They should be required to tell you that you are paying for not just the USPS Shipping costs, but also a HANDLING charge, and a PACKAGING charge. So IMO, your anger is somewhat justifiable (albeit misplaced), because these shops are failing to disclose to you that they are actually charging you for "shipping and handling", and not just the naked USPS shipping rates. Another thing you don't seem to realize is that every business has something called "overhead", which are fixed costs like rent, heat, light, phones, insurance, wages of the employees, interest charges, costs of compliance with various government regulations, as well as other assorted miscellaneous costs for the various materials used in the course of the business. These expenses have to be divided among all of the goods and services sold by the business. Thus when you pay for "shipping", you are not only paying for the USPS rate, but also a percentage of the total overhead of the business. There is one other thing to discuss and that is "profit". Profit is the amount of money left over to a business after all expenses have been paid. My guess is that these businesses are operating on a pretty slim profit margin, probably somewhere between 3-7% at best. You are incorrectly assuming that when you are charged $14 for shipping, that you are contributing $13 to pure profit, which I can assure you is not the case. More likely, you are helping to pay the phone bill, or even the rent, and you are probably contributing only somewhere between $.42 and $.98 to the actual profits of the business. But that being said, I think there should be more honesty and transparency about what you are actually paying for when you pay for shipping.

Lastly, there seems to be a lot of anger generally about the "shipping" charges being too high. Which I guess I can understand, for the reasons set forth above, but what I don't understand is why you people are not complaining about other more outrageous overcharges that occur in our lives? When you go to the hospital is it fair that you are charged $80 for aspirin? How about $900 for an X-ray? Is it fair that you are charged $600 for floor mats in your new car? How about $2,500 for a radio? How about 2% as a "mortgage origination fee"? Why do you not complain about these other outrages? I call them outrages, because these are prices that are distorted, as they are not being set by the free market, but rather have been distorted by unequal bargaining power, monopsony pricing, and/ or exploitation of the third-party moral hazard phenomenon (look it up). Every day, our world becomes more and more of a rich man's world, and the middle class is disappearing as you read this, but you are not concerned? I guess my point is that there are prices that you should be worried about, and shipping charges are not it.