Geforce GTS 450 appears on shelves

[Spectrobozo]

How would this be as a physix card?

probably not to bad?
as fast as a GTX 260?

looking at the results it looks OK, but considering that is a newer product using more power and performing equally to a Radeon 5700 (or a GTX 260 192) this is not so exciting, probably an overclocked 5750 is a better choice? and in my view the possibility to use 3 monitors on the same card also is something to think about when comparing these two.

[CrazyNutz]

im still confused how this 192sp chip gets so close to a 336sp chip
and its even more confusing as it not only has 40% less sps, but is 128bit vs 192bit of the gtx460 768mb... 0_o
sure, its clocked to 900mhz+ while the gtx460 768mb is ONLY clocked to 700mhz... but thats a boost of only 28%...
like i said, it looks like the 460 768mb is a bit bw limited... makes me wonder if the 460 1gb is bw limited as well... does it scale a lot with increased mem clocks?

Mem clock on my gtx460 1gb does not scale performance much, so i dont think its holding anything back.

[trinibwoy]

mhhh yes and no... it overclocks a lot, but the performance barely scales... it only gains a couple of additional fps when pushing it from ~750 to ~950...

Math is a dying art it seems. A 18% overclock results in 14-18% gains. Barely scales indeed.

This card will do fine at ~$130 MSRP assuming the HD5770 will drop to around that price in a few weeks. What the GTS 455 brings is a mystery but probably just higher bandwidth.

[jmke]

ASUS GTS 450 TOP: Full Review
http://gpudesign.bafree.net/asus-gts...op-full-review

give credit to the source ffs

[SKYMTL]

Math is a dying art it seems. A 18% overclock results in 14-18% gains. Barely scales indeed.

Yeah, that's impossible. You'll be lucky to get a 10% performance increase out of an 18% overclock...

[Caparroz]

How would this be as a physix card?

An epic fail.

PhysX doesn't need that much power. An old 8800gt is more than enough for that, it's almost free, runs a lot cooler and consumes way less than this gts 450.

It needs to be $130 maximum. OC potention is a moot point, imho. The vast majority of consumers that buy at that price range doesn't even know exactly what overclocking is or does.

[cegras]

Sorry, I'm not following you. The market of people who haven't upgraded this cycle is far greater than the market of those that have - i.e. your comment about everyone having 5770's was utter silliness. What do Fermi sales so far have to do with future sales of cheaper, lower power Fermi derivatives that are more attractive to the mainstream market?

That is, if people wanted to upgrade from many generations past, the 5770 was a compelling card. You're expecting some sort of 'genesis' of the legacy market share of nvidia to shift over to another midrange nvidia card, but that simply won't happen. In terms of relevant market share, ATI has been leading for a while now.

[eXa]

An epic fail.

PhysX doesn't need that much power. An old 8800gt is more than enough for that, it's almost free, runs a lot cooler and consumes way less than this gts 450.

So GTS450 uses more than a 8800gt @ load? i dont believe it uses more @ idle tho...

[jogshy]

I wonder how it performs in Photoshop, 3dsmax, etc...

[Caparroz]

So GTS450 uses more than a 8800gt @ load? i dont believe it uses more @ idle tho...

I'm sure it uses way more @ load but i don't know about idle. Recent Nvidia cards have a pretty low consumption @ idle.

[CrazyNutz]

An epic fail.

PhysX doesn't need that much power. An old 8800gt is more than enough for that, it's almost free, runs a lot cooler and consumes way less than this gts 450.

It needs to be $130 maximum. OC potention is a moot point, imho. The vast majority of consumers that buy at that price range doesn't even know exactly what overclocking is or does.

I doubt the 450 uses more power, and is hotter than an 8800gt.

My 8800gt @ 800/2000/2000 maxed load temp 45c on my maze5 water block
My palit gtx460 @ 800/1600/4000 max load temp is 40c on the exact same maze5 and same loop.

[saaya]

Wait a sec while I put on my tinfoil hat.

Seriously, you can talk until you are blue in the face about what manufacturers "should" do but it doesn't mean a darn thing. The reality is that companies in every industry do this. Ford, Texas Instruments, AMD, Intel, Toyota, clothing retailers, heck even Tupperware jacks up their prices when they add features between one product generation and the next. The difference between the last generation and this one is huge from a feature MARKETING standpoint: DX11. No, there aren't that many games with it but sine when has that stopped advertising?

oh i have no problem with companies doing this... its what they do... they are here to make money, of course...
but what i dont get is why YOU are making the point for them and defending their marketing tricks and product poisitioning even if it doesnt make sense and ends up screwing over customers who dont know better...

I'm not sayings this is right or wrong but it's the reality of the situation. In addition to that, you CANNOT compare the launch price of a NEW product to the clearance price of the last generation. Launch MSRP versus launch MSRP is what you should be looking at.

so your suggesting people to buy a 5870 based on its msrp, ignoring that the current price has actually increased since the launch?
and your recommending people to rather buy a gtx460 for 250$ than a used gtx470 for the same price because the launch msrp of the 470 was higher than that of the 460, so the used 470... can not be compared to the 460?

dude, your not making any sense here!
when you buy a card you compare all the cards that are available for your budget and then compare them based on features and performance... according to what you say people should stay away from discounts and buy the latest and greatest, just because its new, regardless of better products being available for lower prices at that time! what the h3ck are you talking about???

so a gts250 for 150$ was a bad buy when the 5770 came out for 199$, just because the 5770 was newer and the gts250 originally launched with a higher msrp?

you just cant draw any conclusions about which card is better than another based on launch msrp!!! thats ridiculous man! i cant believe your making comments like this...

I should also remind you that once again you are basing your statements on rumors.

yeah its a shame only you know whats REAAAALLY going on...

Price wise and performance-wise especially considering the final release drivers for the card have not been finalized.

drivers change all the time, prices change all the time... so what are you saying? the cards will drop to 99$ at the official launch and the drivers will give it a 10% boost over night? ONCE that happens, we will inevitable discuss it in another thread...
so you think it makes more sense to discuss what COULD happen instead of what we know so far? or are you suggesting we shouldnt discuss anything, because things change all the time and once we make a comment it might already be outdated?

Math is a dying art it seems. A 18% overclock results in 14-18% gains. Barely scales indeed.

sorry for the sloppy %tage numbers, was too lazy to look up the actual clocks

18% core and shader
11% memory

16.5% boost in vantage P
22% boost in coj 1600x1200 ( )
17% boost in fc2 1920x1080
15% boost in unigine 1920x1080 8aa
7% boost in wic

and i take it back... looking at the numbers some more, the boost from ocing does make a difference... going from 40 to 50 and 50 to 60 definitely helps...

This card will do fine at ~$130 MSRP assuming the HD5770 will drop to around that price in a few weeks. What the GTS 455 brings is a mystery but probably just higher bandwidth.

and maybe more memory, gts450 with 2gb memory anybody? *looks at jmke*

this should sum it all up nicely:

hmmm so its a green 5770 basically...
same perf, same price... meh, so much for competition...

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

I'm not sayings this is right or wrong but it's the reality of the situation. In addition to that, you CANNOT compare the launch price of a NEW product to the clearance price of the last generation. Launch MSRP versus launch MSRP is what you should be looking at.

Why not? If the performance and features are comparable, then you should.

MSRP is a theory, it isnt practice. Market price is what matters. The MSRP can be 150$, doesnt mean a damn thing if in the market it is selling for 50$ more or less than MSRP.

[Jowy Atreides]

you CANNOT compare the launch price of a NEW product to the clearance price of the last generation. Launch MSRP versus launch MSRP is what you should be looking at.

Ahem?

Hold on and I'll fire up my delorean, have the sudden urge to buy a 5770 and buying one from a shop at the same time a DIRECTLY competing product is released would just be so unfair.

Your statement is only true if you also include the launch price of the GTS 450 product at the same time as the 5770 was launched.
So, Infinity dollars of a difference since the GTS450 did not exist.

Or should we wait around one whole year from the 5770 launch for the competition to catch up before prices are allowed to be influenced by the market?

I loved France's world cup winning team of 98. It isn't fair that Scotland was in that tournament with such a poor team.
The final should be postponed until scotland also have a world cup winning squad and France should be placed in a time negating stasis field.

[trinibwoy]

That is, if people wanted to upgrade from many generations past, the 5770 was a compelling card. You're expecting some sort of 'genesis' of the legacy market share of nvidia to shift over to another midrange nvidia card, but that simply won't happen. In terms of relevant market share, ATI has been leading for a while now.

What genesis? I was simply responding to your naive "who would buy this?" question. You asked that as if everyone in the world had upgraded in the last year. Again, past sales have no bearing on how popular a new part would be - that should be obvious by looking at the popularity of the 460 vs 480.

[cegras]

Yeah, who WOULD buy this? Not people like me: perf isn't an upgrade. For the people that haven't upgraded yet, I highly doubt they will upgrade just because the GTS450 was released. Of the people who might upgrade to a mid range card, the 5770 and 460 have been stealing sales for a while now. Some people might buy it, but not in the numbers that will make this card a runaway success.

Also, Saaya is completely right. I can't believe I backed out of my point because of pressure.

[jmke]

this product will mostly go into bulk OEM maybe as a counter part and alternative to bundling HD 5770 ?

[spursindonesia]

this product will mostly go into bulk OEM maybe as a counter part and alternative to bundling HD 5770 ?

I don't think the current Fermi based VGA cards line up from nVidia is all that popular with OEMs, simply because OEMs love low power consuming cards. Ofcourse, nVidia still has margin shaving avenue to attract costumers (OEMs love el cheapo cards even better), but that has it's own negative consequences too.

[SKYMTL]

Why not? If the performance and features are comparable, then you should.

That's my point.

The features aren't comparable on the cards people have been comparing this new card to. The GTX 260, GTS 250, 9800 GTX+, etc all have a lack of DX11 and OpenGL 4.1 while their efficiency is lower and they are a bit less compact in terms of size as well.

Here is my point in simple terms: a last generation product (MSRP or otherwise) cannot be compared on a level footing with a current generation product due to differences in features, etc. If you never intend on using the features then sure, the last generation will ALWAYS be a more sensible purchase right before the transition to the latest products due to sell-off prices. Then again, if companies nit-picked about the particulars like some people here, this market would have stagnated long ago.

Naturally, if the features are the same like they were with the long list of G80 derivatives then of course comparisons need to be made.

I think of it this way: the ultra high end is usually clear cut since it MUST act as a flagship by bringing advances in performance. More moderate price ranges on the other hand usually get a bit muddied when going from generation to generation. This is due to the natural pricing overlap in a crowded segment that always occurs during the transition between outgoing and incoming architectures.

[trinibwoy]

Some people might buy it, but not in the numbers that will make this card a runaway success.

Who said anything about a runaway success? I was simply pointing out that your suggestion that nobody would buy the card because they had already upgraded is just silly. Now you're saying that the people who haven't upgraded yet won't upgrade just because this card was released. Sheesh.

Essentially your point is that you won't buy the card because you already have a 4850. That's fine but you're not representative of the market and your owning a 4850 has no bearing on the millions of other customers in the world who either have no card, an outdated card, or get the card installed in some OEM job from their grandmother for Christmas. Again, "enthusiasts" overestimate their importance and relevance to the rest of the market especially in this price range.

[cegras]

I think it will sell, but in 'yawn' quantities. This product is 'yawn' overall.

[trinibwoy]

If you never intend on using the features then sure, the last generation will ALWAYS be a more sensible purchase right before the transition to the latest products due to sell-off prices.

It all depends on whether it's $130 or $150+. If it's the former then it's pretty safe. The problem isn't old cards, the problem is that it's entering a market where the competition is about to be refreshed.

[SKYMTL]

It all depends on whether it's $130 or $150+. If it's the former then it's pretty safe. The problem isn't old cards, the problem is that it's entering a market where the competition is about to be refreshed.

Totally agree. Pricing in this situation will be key for NVIDIA since I think they need to hit the HD 5750's price point with a card that outperforms that ATI card in every....single....test. If they can do that, they'll have an excellent foot in the $125 -$145 door come the holiday shopping season.

It is also important to remember that $125 HD 5750s usually only sport 512MB of memory.

[naokaji]

Agree, 150$ would be a bit much, would make it feel like a 5830, as in oh s*** we chopped a bit too much of the chip off. 130$ would be more reasonable as it would only be a relatively small premium over the next lower nvidia product the 250 and priced against the 5750 (or 5770 as lets face it, amd could easily reduce the price of the 5770).

[Taskforce]

Now available at Newegg, priced around $130, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...GTS450&x=0&y=0