New rumor about ATI Southern Islands

[mindfury]

http://www.donanimhaber.com/ekran-ka...e-detaylar.htm

Radeon HD 6700 series will launch on October 12.

[blindbox]

You're kidding! 1 month and 12 days away !

[LightSpeed]

IIRC the 67xx isnt the new architecture, its a slightly modified Cypress with different clocks/PCB with some SP's disabled most probably

I might be wrong, but I do trust the source.

[Calmatory]

So renaming.. AMD FAIL

[~CS~]

So renaming.. AMD FAIL

And how did you come to that conclusion ? Or you are just flame bating ? ..if it its the latter nvm.

[madcho]

i don't think this is renaming.

[mindfury]

IIRC the 67xx isnt the new architecture, its a slightly modified Cypress with different clocks/PCB with some SP's disabled most probably

I might be wrong, but I do trust the source.

6700 series codename is Barts,which is member of NI family.So it has to be the new architecture.

[Sn0wm@n]

LOL this isnt renaming .... ati wont do it when they are barely dominating the market .... its easy to see that this new card will have noticeable improvement

[ajaidev]

HD6000 - first ATI card with digital PWM:


http://translate.google.com/translat...e&tl=en&swap=1

[Calmatory]

LOL this isnt renaming .... ati wont do it when they are barely dominating the market .... its easy to see that this new card will have noticeable improvement

Renaming also gives some benefits. Redo cypress with slight changes and different clocks as Barts and slap it out as HD6700 series. One could argue it isn't renaming, while other could argue it is. The fact is, that for minimal effort they can resell the old, albeit modified hardware for almost the same margins(Only now, since the GPU prices are inflated anyway, thanks Nvidia. ).

Now read this before you reply: I am not claiming that the kind of renaming I just describes would really match the renaming Nvidia is doing. I am saying that it is actually BETTER for a company to recycle old stuff, since renaming would make sense.

If the 4+1 -> 4 rumour is true, then obviously renaming wouldn't make any sense at all.

[Sn0wm@n]

we dont have the same deffinition of renaming then .... amd had to do it that way ... they were forced to take an old design improve it and use the same 40nm node ... if they really did some good improvement then i wouldnt consider it a rename ... if they barely did some tweaks its a card that we could live without ..

[Calmatory]

Renaming makes no sense though, so it's hardly a possibility then.

[mindfury]

http://www.chiphell.com/thread-120059-1-1.html

比HD5870稍长一些(很少一点点);
频率现在是850MHz,但不代表最终零售不变.
TDP在200W以内.
散热器使用了均热板,很给力.(异形,并不是平面的,估计又是高级货)
nApoleon 发表于 2010-8-31 22:50

Cayman pro will a bit longer than HD5870.
Core clcok=850Mhz
TDP<200W
Vapor heatsink(Not flat)

[Calmatory]

What exactly is that vapor heatsink? Something new?

IIRC at least Nordic Hardware was touting about the new cooling technology of having a vapor chamber in the bottom of the heatsink for R800 products back in summer of 2008. Afaik, that wasn't the case... Maybe now?

[Shadov]

Renaming makes no sense though, so it's hardly a possibility then.

If it has improved performance and tessellation would you call it renaming?

[~CS~]

What exactly is that vapor heatsink? Something new?

IIRC at least Nordic Hardware was touting about the new cooling technology of having a vapor chamber in the bottom of the heatsink for R800 products back in summer of 2008. Afaik, that wasn't the case... Maybe now?

Actually it is the case,all reference 5970 cards use a vapor chamber.It's a basic tech similar to a heat pipe but more surface area.

[blindbox]

What exactly is that vapor heatsink? Something new?

IIRC at least Nordic Hardware was touting about the new cooling technology of having a vapor chamber in the bottom of the heatsink for R800 products back in summer of 2008. Afaik, that wasn't the case... Maybe now?

Sapphire has been using vapor heatsink (their Toxic products, and now their Vapor-X'es) since the Radeon HD 3xxx. AMD used it for 5970 reference design.

IIRC the 67xx isnt the new architecture, its a slightly modified Cypress with different clocks/PCB with some SP's disabled most probably

I might be wrong, but I do trust the source.

I believe that's some pretty old info.

[spursindonesia]

Vapor chamber, basically the whole base of the heatsink acts as a giant flat heatpipe, sort of like that, correct ?

Regarding the renaming issue, i dunno man, i don't think it's wise and purposeful for ATi going this avenue when Evergreen family is still more than decent against competition, it will simply erode the goodwill from its costumers. It will be such a shame for them if with all the time afforded with Fermi's debacle, they just sit doing nothing and resorting to renaming & milking the market tactic.

[LightSpeed]

I believe that's some pretty old info.

Not really, I heard it from someone in the know only a few days ago.

Im not saying they are renaming, but that the 67xx will be a modified Cypress and the 68xx will be a new architecture.

Time will certainly tell

[blindbox]

Not really, I heard it from someone in the know only a few days ago.

Im not saying they are renaming, but that the 67xx will be a modified Cypress and the 68xx will be a new architecture.

Time will certainly tell

Well I heard it months ago

NI is touted to be a mix-match architecture, taking points from both Evergreen and SI. Plus, the naming is already out, indicating NI. I'm just taking chances from AMD's track record. It won't be a renaming.

Time always tells

[Mysterfix]

Vapor chamber, basically the whole base of the heatsink acts as a giant flat heatpipe, sort of like that, correct ?

Regarding the renaming issue, i dunno man, i don't think it's wise and purposeful for ATi going this avenue when Evergreen family is still more than decent against competition, it will simply erode the goodwill from its costumers. It will be such a shame for them if with all the time afforded with Fermi's debacle, they just sit doing nothing and resorting to renaming & milking the market tactic.

I wouldn't say they are sitting on their hands but you can only do so much on the current node. They already had new tech ready to go on the smaller nodes but manufacturing was not able to deliver so now they fall on to their backup plan in order to be able to offer something fresh for sale. Most people won't know and won't care if these cards modified versions of other tech as long as the performance is there.

[bill_d]

What exactly is that vapor heatsink? Something new?

IIRC at least Nordic Hardware was touting about the new cooling technology of having a vapor chamber in the bottom of the heatsink for R800 products back in summer of 2008. Afaik, that wasn't the case... Maybe now?

no not new Sapphire
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-893-_-Product

[Calmatory]

Ah. The Vapor chamber wasn't used for other than double-GPU 5970, and it is now rumoured to be utilized in at least HD68xx cards? Anyone have any idea of any cooling performance improvement, or is it even just something fancy to market ("200 % BETTER HEATSINK-BASE HEAT CONDUCTIVITY FOR ÜBER PERFORMANCE AND NORTH-POLE LIKE TEMPERATURES!!", with no practical benefits in temps)?

[LightSpeed]

Well I heard it months ago

NI is touted to be a mix-match architecture, taking points from both Evergreen and SI. Plus, the naming is already out, indicating NI. I'm just taking chances from AMD's track record. It won't be a renaming.

Time always tells

Yeah, lets just wait and watch

I think Cayman will be bigger than Cypress, designed for 28/32 nm, consume more power and perform much faster, and the rest of the lot (Turks, Barts etc) will be modified Cypress cores.

Thats not renaming, and thats not even a bad idea IMO as it saves R & D and the next complete refresh from top to bottom will be SI (but it might not be the name of islands )

[Carfax]

oh, your saying its designed to run hot on purpose then?
but why, you must be an ee engineer to make a claim like that!

You obviously don't know jack about Fermi dude.. Fermi runs hotter and consumes more power than Cypress because it has 40% more transistors!

Jeeze, isn't it obvious? People need to do their research before making silly claims..

And the GTX 480 doesn't even run that hot. At stock clocks, it usually tops out at 92 or 93c with the fan on average, well within the 105c threshold.

The initial reviews exaggerated the temps because they used open air test stands.

Mine are overclocked by 21% and the highest temps I ever see are 77c and 87c respectively.....with the fan on 100% of course

thats not the reason somebody spends 250-500$ on a VGA = video graphics accelerator these days... when they buy a vga, guess what, they want it to ACCELERATE GRAPHICS! shocker!

Saaya, are you implying that Fermi doesn't accelerate graphics?

Seriously....

you can sell chainsaw as a knife and advertise it as "can cut down a tree", itll still suck as a knife and nobody will want to carry such a huge expensive thing from the kitchen to the breakfast table every morning...
and all your talk about how it also serves as an "urban violence solver" and "stress relief super fun toy" wont make it a better knife...

Sounds like a Chinese proverb

fermi isnt a graphics processor!
fermi is an awesome graphics processor!
fermi isnt a graphics processor!

I already made myself quite clear. Fermi is a graphics processor that has vastly increased computational abilities over previous generations.

which past gpu makes youy think expecting a 20% boost is reasonable for fermi?

I didn't say it was reasonable, just possible based on the premise that Fermi is such a radically different architecture.

Anyway, Nvidia has pulled it off before. Ask anyone that owned a Geforce 3 about the Detonator 20xx drivers. It increased performance by nearly 20% across the board, and up to 50 and 60% in specific games and benchmarks. Basically, it turned the Geforce 3 (Nvidia's first DX8 part) from an ugly duckling into a Swan.

check out the first reviews of rv870 and compare them to the latest reviews comparing it to gf104 etc... and youll see that rv870 saw a boost of less than 10% throughout its lifetime...

As many people have noted (including many ATI owners themselves), ATI is sorely lacking in the driver department compared to Nvidia.

quadro cards are aimed at hpc? i thought it was tesla?

You're right, it's Tesla. Quadro is more workstation oriented.

at that time they were ahead in the graphics field by quite a fair bit, and they probably thought they could get away with all the gpgpu baggage on a gpu... do you think if given the chance nvidia would do the same thing again? i dont think so...

The Fermi architecture was always designed to be scaleable, so thats irrelevant.

you think its unreasonable to expect a new part to outperform an old part?

It's not unreasonable, just not guaranteed. And the fact that Cayman will be more of a revision than a new architecture, isn't exactly doing it any favors.

It will probably be faster more than likely, but not nearly as much as some of the fanboys in this thread have suggested.

Where Cayman will win big, is on power usage....