[NEW STUFF] Intel LGA1155

[terrace215]

I just look and giggle but the thing is people dont realize what the truth is even if you type out loud like i did about sandy bridge 6/8c being o so different and tweaked that the 2/4c sandy bridge

But you have not said that the 2/4c sandy bridge is NOT a new, completely reworked microarchitecture, just that the 6/8 has even more (potential) changes.

The semiacc author is practically suggesting that 2/4 is a Westmere core bolted to a new uncore with GPU on die, oh, and, uh, plus AVX... or something.

Even Intel has now publicly said "significant IPC improvement" about the 2/4 parts. I don't think that means AVX.

http://download.intel.com/pressroom/...er_English.pdf

(pages 32,33)

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20...orsPicksArea.0



Key points
While Intel Executive Vice President David Perlmutter said he would "not do a deep dive" on Sandy Bridge in his Intel Developer Forum Beijing keynote this week, he did reveal some key points about the architecture.

-More efficient: the central processing unit, or CPU, delivers a "significant improvement in instructions per clock," according to Perlmutter, meaning that it is more efficient at executing tasks.

-Faster on-chip communication: different parts of the chip will talk to each other faster--what Perlmutter called "improved inter-buses."

-Shared memory: on-chip memory called cache is shared between the CPU and graphics processing unit, or GPU.

-GPU now part of CPU: Intel combines the CPU and GPU on the same piece of silicon. According to an unofficial photo of the Sandy Bridge chip from Japanese Web site PC Watch, the GPU takes up roughly 25 percent of the processor's real estate.

-New instructions: Sandy Bridge will be the first chip to support Intel's Advanced Vector Extension (Intel AVX) instructions. AVX accelerates a host of multimedia tasks, including video and audio processing.

-More intelligent overclocking: and, finally, Perlmutter mentioned improved Turbo Boost--which speeds up (i.e., "overclocks") or slows down individual cores to meet processing or power efficiency needs.

[saaya]

I haven't noticed the author..
Oh Sascha
You know how to find me... But you also know I'm not allowed to give any details/info..

oh stop it, always teasing with all the things you know and then not telling anything :P
at least hint at whats wrong so i can try to find an answer somewhere else :P

--Snip--

oh come on guys! dont tell me i got it all wrong and its misleading and then leave me standing in the rain :P
at least hint at what was misleading... calling cache associativity cache width?

The semiacc author is practically suggesting that 2/4 is a Westmere core bolted to a new uncore with GPU on die, oh, and, uh, plus AVX... or something.

i wrote it, and thats not true about it?

Even Intel has now publicly said "significant IPC improvement" about the 2/4 parts. I don't think that means AVX.

where have they said that? and how would they achieve significant ipc improvements?
they havent mentioned anything that could potentially improve ipc significantly...

-More efficient: the central processing unit, or CPU, delivers a "significant improvement in instructions per clock," according to Perlmutter, meaning that it is more efficient at executing tasks.

they ALWAYS say that for EVERY new cpu... they said that about nehalem as well and it ended up with almost the same ipc in most apps as c2d... :P

-Faster on-chip communication: different parts of the chip will talk to each other faster--what Perlmutter called "improved inter-buses."

revamped cache, i mentioned that...

-Shared memory: on-chip memory called cache is shared between the CPU and graphics processing unit, or GPU.

so reducing the L3 cache from 4 to 3mb and reducing it from 16way to 12way associative and THEN sharing it not only between 2 cores but the gpu as well... thats improving ipc how? :P

-GPU now part of CPU: Intel combines the CPU and GPU on the same piece of silicon. According to an unofficial photo of the Sandy Bridge chip from Japanese Web site PC Watch, the GPU takes up roughly 25 percent of the processor's real estate.

and that affects ipc how...? :P

-New instructions: Sandy Bridge will be the first chip to support Intel's Advanced Vector Extension (Intel AVX) instructions. AVX accelerates a host of multimedia tasks, including video and audio processing.

new instructions will result in a boost in a few apps only at launch, if even that... i wouldnt count this as ipc boost, and you said you "heard" ipc improvements beyond avx, right?

-More intelligent overclocking: and, finally, Perlmutter mentioned improved Turbo Boost--which speeds up (i.e., "overclocks") or slows down individual cores to meet processing or power efficiency needs.

this adjusts clocks, not ipc... so again, where are those ipc improvements intel supposedly raved about? :P

Seems like a lower baseclock will allow for finer control of turboboost.

yeah, thats a good point... now its 100mhz steps and not 133 anymore... wont make a huge difference but should help a bit to maybe get higher turbo multis and lower idle clocks

[terrace215]

where have they said that? and how would they achieve significant ipc improvements?
they havent mentioned anything that could potentially improve ipc significantly...

? IDF Beijing? Perlmutter said it. As it said in the very article I linked, which you presumably read, as you quoted it.

Yeah, how could a new microarchitecture possibly improve IPC significantly? ><

[saaya]

? IDF Beijing? Perlmutter said it. As it said in the very article I linked, which you presumably read, as you quoted it.

Yeah, how could a new microarchitecture possibly improve IPC significantly? ><

i didnt read them, you quoted some info so i though that was the relevant info you were only linking there to provide a source...

let me read it now...
ok, the cnet article doesnt mention anything new, you had quoted the important parts, but they dont mention a significant ipc boost... at all...
the article mentions that sandybridge is intels most important design for the future... well yeah, like clarkdale was a few months ago
that doesnt mean itll be notably faster...

they demoed a laptop running "some" medical imaging program... they dont mention the performance, nor the name of the app, nor did they compare it to a clarkdale laptop to show a performance boost... so if you ask me, this sounds just like intel saying
a.) we got sandybridge up and running, see!
b.) its performing well

they dont mention improved performance vs clarkdale at all in that article...

lol, page 15 and following they make it look as if the different atom processors were entirely different chips
they are talking to engineers there at idf... do they really think they fall for this nonsense?

no mention of performance (besides avx)


improved ipc...


i see... so they did mention improved ipc...
they didnt mention improved performance though, and they dont mention "signficiantly improved ipc" as you said :P

improved ipc can mean many things... the revamped cache structure alone probably improves the ipc already... barely... but it does... so that would already count as an ipc improvement.
we will see, but i will be VERY surprised if there is a notable performance boost of sandbridge over clarkdale, besides gpu and avx, those might get a boost...

i should define what i mean by that though... even if sandybridge is 5% or even 10% faster than clarkdale at the same clockspeed, thats not a notable performance boost imo... thats not a reason to upgrade your laptop or pc, its like a mhz boost from 2000mhz to 2200mhz... thats nothing, you wont notice it...

but i dont expect even that, i think sandybridge will be 2% faster than clarkdale on average... the important points will be lower power consumption, more features (avx,better turbo,tweaked igp) and price...

[informal]

i didnt read them, you quoted some info so i though that was the relevant info you were only linking there to provide a source...

let me read it now...
ok, the cnet article doesnt mention anything new, you had quoted the important parts, but they dont mention a significant ipc boost... at all...
the article mentions that sandybridge is intels most important design for the future... well yeah, like clarkdale was a few months ago
that doesnt mean itll be notably faster...

they demoed a laptop running "some" medical imaging program... they dont mention the performance, nor the name of the app, nor did they compare it to a clarkdale laptop to show a performance boost... so if you ask me, this sounds just like intel saying
a.) we got sandybridge up and running, see!
b.) its performing well

they dont mention improved performance vs clarkdale at all in that article...

lol, page 15 and following they make it look as if the different atom processors were entirely different chips
they are talking to engineers there at idf... do they really think they fall for this nonsense?

no mention of performance (besides avx)


improved ipc...


i see... so they did mention improved ipc...
they didnt mention improved performance though, and they dont mention "signficiantly improved ipc" as you said :P

improved ipc can mean many things... the revamped cache structure alone probably improves the ipc already... barely... but it does... so that would already count as an ipc improvement.
we will see, but i will be VERY surprised if there is a notable performance boost of sandbridge over clarkdale, besides gpu and avx, those might get a boost...

i should define what i mean by that though... even if sandybridge is 5% or even 10% faster than clarkdale at the same clockspeed, thats not a notable performance boost imo... thats not a reason to upgrade your laptop or pc, its like a mhz boost from 2000mhz to 2200mhz... thats nothing, you wont notice it...

but i dont expect even that, i think sandybridge will be 2% faster than clarkdale on average... the important points will be lower power consumption, more features (avx,better turbo,tweaked igp) and price...

I'll go even further and say IF intel manages an average of ~15% increase in IPC over same clocked(same turbo ability) clarkdale,than it's a success as far as the "significant IPC increase" story goes. Intel claimed,back in February,a 20% increase on unnamed workloads(may very well be a mix of computational and 2D/3D GPU heavy application),over same clocked arrandale/clarkdale chips.

[saaya]

I'll go even further and say IF intel manages an average of ~15% increase in IPC over same clocked(same turbo ability) clarkdale,than it's a success as far as the "significant IPC increase" story goes. Intel claimed,back in February,a 20% increase on unnamed workloads(may very well be a mix of computational and 2D/3D GPU heavy application),over same clocked arrandale/clarkdale chips.

pff, they claimed the same for clarkdale over wolfdale, actually way more, they claimed ~50% performance boosts back then... and for nehalem they did the same vs yorkfield... those are all best case scenarios...

come on, its not gonna happen... whats the last time we have seen a 20% ipc boost over a previous gen cpu? the original a64 did it and conroe did it, and they only managed that because the previous gen they used was outdated and sucked and the new arch was doing above average. and in both cases it was a mayor effort from intel and amd to get those new archs out. sandybridge is a small stepstone for intel, its not a mayor new arch...

...

wow, so many temp probes... and it can display the current power consumption? neat!!!

65W tdp? must be because its ES...
no turbo boost? same i guess... or maybe early bios?
lowest multi is 16x? and it cant drop every second clock to get down to 800mhz?
why are there two 3.3v readings?
whats vccp2? uncore?

I'm confused.
Is sandy bridge just a tweak/core upgrade from nehalem? With minimal clock/clock performance increase?

Like i7 was to Yorkfield, no improvement in realtime single core apps.

My emulators demand something newer than the performance levels of 6 year old chips. We are WAAAY overdue for a real increase.

itll have better turbo modes, hopefully, so that will help with single threadded apps... somewhat...
the next real ipc increase will be haswell, 22nm... thatll be a mayor step... and bulldozer from amd, which will probably come out first, but itll be on 32nm so even if its good intel should catch up pretty fast with haswell on 22nm...

on intels latest public roadmaps it shows sandybridge as the next step on 32nm right?
after that comes ivybridge at 22nm and then haswell at 22nm.
haswell is a really revamped architecture... sandybridge and ivybridge are just that, bridges, to that revamped arch...
they are all tweaks of the original Yonah archicture that replaced netburst.

[Jowy Atreides]

itll have better turbo modes, hopefully, so that will help with single threadded apps... somewhat...
the next real ipc increase will be haswell, 22nm... thatll be a mayor step... and bulldozer from amd, which will probably come out first, but itll be on 32nm so even if its good intel should catch up pretty fast with haswell on 22nm...

Shame though, my intel system is already at 4ghz. If turbo is the only major increase then I'm already doing it manually.


So, Haswell vs Bulldozer. I've heard the name bulldozer bantered about since I joined xs ....many years ago. I assumed it was an ancient architecture of the P3 era. Must have been the AMD forum clutching at straws over the failure of phenom 1.

[Mumak]

TDP and Turbo are correct for this one. Reason: Early Sample
Don't count on those Nuvoton NCT6771F sensor values, these are just generic outputs that need to be adjusted per a specific mobo (like all sensors on each mobo). Since this mobo is a pretty early sample, I'm not sure if I will be able to adjust them now.. Will see...

wow, so many temp probes... and it can display the current power consumption? neat!!!

65W tdp? must be because its ES...
no turbo boost? same i guess... or maybe early bios?
lowest multi is 16x? and it cant drop every second clock to get down to 800mhz?
why are there two 3.3v readings?
whats vccp2? uncore?


itll have better turbo modes, hopefully, so that will help with single threadded apps... somewhat...
the next real ipc increase will be haswell, 22nm... thatll be a mayor step... and bulldozer from amd, which will probably come out first, but itll be on 32nm so even if its good intel should catch up pretty fast with haswell on 22nm...

on intels latest public roadmaps it shows sandybridge as the next step on 32nm right?
after that comes ivybridge at 22nm and then haswell at 22nm.
haswell is a really revamped architecture... sandybridge and ivybridge are just that, bridges, to that revamped arch...
they are all tweaks of the original Yonah archicture that replaced netburst.

[terrace215]

ok, the cnet article doesnt mention anything new, you had quoted the important parts, but they dont mention a significant ipc boost... at all...

they dont mention improved performance vs clarkdale at all in that article...


i see... so they did mention improved ipc...
they didnt mention improved performance though, and they dont mention "signficiantly improved ipc" as you said :P


i should define what i mean by that though... even if sandybridge is 5% or even 10% faster than clarkdale at the same clockspeed, thats not a notable performance boost imo... thats not a reason to upgrade your laptop or pc, its like a mhz boost from 2000mhz to 2200mhz... thats nothing, you wont notice it...

but i dont expect even that, i think sandybridge will be 2% faster than clarkdale on average... the important points will be lower power consumption, more features (avx,better turbo,tweaked igp) and price...

I'll try to speak S L O W L Y for you.

The cnet article quotes (you know QUOTATION MARKS?) perlmutter from his presentation. You know, he was on a stage. He was speaking. The audio/video presentation is still available along with the slide deck. He said "significantly improved IPC". C L E A R ?

How could this happen in a completely reworked microarchitecture? Oh, I dunno. L1 latency going from 4 to 3 cycles might help.

But I see. 10% is now not significant. At least you are on the record with your 2% prediction.

[kl0012]

i think sandybridge will be 2% faster than clarkdale on average... the important points will be lower power consumption, more features (avx,better turbo,tweaked igp) and price...

I think all the performance speculations are useless at this stage. I'll bet you have no appropriate background to estimate a performance bust from an additional L1 load port, much bigger loop detector buffer, lower cache latencies, larger L3 bandwidth (and other Sandy Bridge features which yet to be disclosed). What Intel does disclosed is a performance speedup (1.42x - 2.57x) for AVX vs. SSE for various FP workloads. Also confirmed on actual Sandy Bridge silicon.
http://software.intel.com/en-us/arti...lation-slerp//