they could well be switching teams, i heard they get the short end of the stick with gtx280 pricing and were rather cross about the ordeal. but then they would be the only nvidia partner to jump ship because of it.Originally Posted by RSC
hard to believe these are photochop'd.
It's obviously not scaling in that game, drivers could fix that. If it is valid to expect/hope that Nvidia fixes 2560x1600 scaling in several games then it is no less valid to expect/hope ATI fixes quad-gpu scaling in a few games.LOL magically their Metro 2033 numbers are so much better for ATI than other reviews? The rest of those benchmarks are extremely suspect as well. Except the only one they seemed to get right was Crysis Warhead. How's your 5970 CF doing in that one?
http://www.sweclockers.com/articles_...id=6236&page=8
Personally, I wouldn't buy a product based on the hope of future driver improvements though.
But there is no need to pursue this line of discussion any further if you don't want to. I just wanted to understand the motivation of someone who isn't a multi-GPU hater going with the slower GTX480 over a 5970. But your responses have answered that for me, if indirectly. Thank you.
Well add to the fact my board is a 790I and I really don't have a need or desire to go with a new board and cpu right now. My 4Ghz Dual core sees about 60-75% per core usage if the game is multithreaded well. Crossfire isn't happening on a 790I so that factors in a little bit but less so than the dislike for ATI Catalyst drivers. If I had good experiences with ATI in the past I'd possibly changed MB+CPU 5-6 months ago when 5870 came out and done CF with them.
I don't say I'll never use another ATI card again however it'll really have to be better circumstances than just less heat 86'C vs 93'C and fan noise is almost the same SLI vs CF, power usage I won't even acknowledge. Perhaps in my next major overhaul I'll take another look at the competition but thankfully for all of us competition is there. Both products are good and both products will appeal to different people for different reasons. ATI has a great head start, if they have been utilizing the last 6 months and have forward momentum they could do some really amazing things. I firmly believe both companies are pushing some technology limits (for now) and going beyond what is currently out will require some costly R&D on both sides.
Last edited by pentium777; 03-29-2010 at 04:51 PM.
PC1 EVGA Nvidia 790i Ultra | E8400 Retail @ 4.05GHz 1.35v | 8GB Mushkin Ascent @ DDR3-1680 | 2xBFG GTX 280 SLI @ stock | 30" Dell 3008WFP @ 2560x1600 XHD | XFI Fatality | 3x256GB Corsair(Samsung) SSD Raid0 & 1TB Samsung Backup | LG DVD / CDRW | NEC DVD DL 16x | CoolerMaster Stacker 830 8x120mm high 110 CFM per fan| 1000w Corsair SLI certified | Scythe Infinity (dremel mod to avoid caps on board)
PC2 (Wife) ASUS P5WDH Bios 1101 | E6400 Retail @ 3.2 | 4GB Corsair 6400C4 | 1xBFG GTX 260 @ stock | 24" Dell 2405FPW @ 1920x1200 XHD | XFI Xtrememusic | 2x150G Raptor Raid0 & 1TB WD Backup | Pioneer DVD | CoolerMaster Stacker 830 | 850w PCP&C | Stock HSF
In before April fools where fermi is decent
so your points are:This is Xtreme Systems right? Not "Frugal Systems"
While I think it is great to save money some people are in this hobby like others are into race cars, R/C airplanes etc. This is a hobby and it isn't a cheap one if you want the latest and greatest, SPEED costs $$$$$$ in every single hobby.
So as I'm driving my Z06 today I selected the Coolant Temp guess what? 214'F which is quite a bit hotter than a standard Corvette, Z06 is 505 HP vs 430 HP that's only 75 HP more that's only 17.5% increase and it was 20-25K more... So the Z06 and the ZR1 for that matter run hotter, cost more in fuel, and are more expensive sounds like Fermi right? Yet it isn't easy to find a Z06 or ZR1 in stock, they sell well and they aren't for economy buyers.
Before you say it isn't a good comparison think about it for a minute, some people will spend $250K on a Ferrari is that a good deal? How about people that spend money on water cooling setup when it is not necessary? Or the tons of other custom "Xtreme" parts that go into a fast PC.
I think we are seeing GPU technology being pushed to the limits of current chip design, why else would Nvidia who isn't some no name company have issues getting this to market? They were ambitious and wanted to have something really revolutionary, well they did but at quite a cost.
Yep I'm going with the Fermi (Ferrari) of GPUs and not just 1 but 2 for SLI on my waste of money 30" 3008WFP, will I enjoy my gaming experience? Yep, do I enjoy driving my way too expensive Z06? Yep
1. im rich!
2. im buying 2 gtx480s cause they are the best cards for 2560x1600
if you really cant find a 5970 then you must be doing something wrong, i can find several offers... even then, most boards nowadays have 2 if not 4 pciE 16x slots... how about getting 3-4 5870s or 5850s? i thought money doesnt matter and you just want the fastest possible? and multi gpu isnt a problem at all, right?
you obviously prefer nvidia... theres nothing wrong with that! i hate ccc and nvidia highend cards are pretty solid, expensive, but solid... but please dont tell us your unbiased and just buy 2 480s cause they are oh so awesome
lol what? 2-3fps over a standard 5870, thats it? i expected a lot more from those beefed up 2gb cards :/
eeeeEEEeeEEEEWWWWwWWWww :S
sorry, but really... 790i... eew...
you can flash the dell XPS 730 H2C bios on your board and enable xfire that way... dell managed to force nvidia to remove their xfire lock on their chipsets... if you dont want to do that, then yeah, 480 sli sounds like the best option indeed... but tbh, if i were you... id rather get a pair of evga 470s with waterblock mounted already... they cost the same as a 480, clock higher, run cooler, and should perform better than 480s on air when comparing 480 sli max oc vs watercooled 470 sli max oc...
I can confirm the rumors are true. We've had the news post up for a while.
Everyone I know at XFX confirms this is the direction they are going.
Of course everyone should consider their own situation before buying an expensive piece of hardware. It is reasonable to decide what to buy partly based on what you have already. The only reason I haven't purchased my friend's 5970 (for $300) is because ATI multi-GPU boards don't work well with my current motherboard.
Really I think people trying to state flatly "A gpu is x% better then B gpu across the board" are vastly oversimplifying. I think everyone should consider how each potential purchase works at the resolutions they use, with the quality settings they use, in the games they use, with the hardware config they have. It happens quite often that specific games work better with certain architectures or that certain architectures perform better with specific quality settings, AA, etc. Just taking an average, overly broad, number might not get an accurate picture of performance in your specific usage.
As for drivers, I used to hate ATI drivers. Since my first ATI card (an All-In-Wonder) I always had trouble with their drivers, particularly bugs and OpenGL performance. But I have been switching between ATI and Nvidia a lot lately and I can say that I don't prefer either driver any more because the ATI ones have gotten a lot better (since R600 gen) and the NV ones have actually gotten worse.
Didn't you try to argue that you wanted the fastest no matter what the cost? If that's the case, then it is 5970 CF.
Yes, quad GPU's tend not to scale so well. And they do cost a lot. But like you said, if you want the fastest, it does cost money.
If you want something that's fast, doesn't have to be the fastest but it'd be nice if it was close, 5870 is the perfect card right now.
for you maybe.... not everyone plays the same games, has the same hardware, same monitor, same usage habbits.... c'mon man. it's up to each customer to decide what's best for them... gtx470 sli seems to be in my future.
See, I just don't understand this. How is 470 or 480 a better purchase against a 5850, 5870 or 5970?
I'm not anti-Nvidia or anything, but I really think that ATI has won this generation.
Cypress isn't the fastest GPU, but it's cheaper, much lower on power consumption and it works well in crossfire (which will give best performance if that's what you're after).
I don't really see a price point where GF100 is better suited than one or more Cypress cards/GPU's
depends on what games you play...
in some games a 470 is faster than a 5870, and its supposed to cost 50$ less...
there are a few scenarios in which a 480 allows you to play a game at a higher res or with more details and better aa quality than the 5870...
if that happens to be a game you play a lot, and you happen to need that higher res, and you dont like multi gpu, and you dont care about power heat and noise... then a 480 is the only option really...
but ill repeat what i said before, for most people theres barely any difference between the 5850 5870 470 or 480, except for price... and preference based on brand or rma support or drivers...
the performance of those cards is enough for most games at 1920x1080, and at 2560 they are all too slow in most scenarios...
i had high hopes for an oced 470 to be a great deal, but i just read the pcgh review where they overclocked one...
at 750mhz core and same mem clocks as a 480 its still 10% slower than its bigger brother in crysis, despite 50mhz higher gpu and 100mhz higher shader clocks!
im seeing that as a confirmation of what i already suspected, gf100s Achilles heel is texturing performance...
it will take vmods to get a 470 faster than a 480 at stock in many scenarios...
if i wanted to buy a card now it would be a 5850 i think... the cheapest card thats fast enough for 95% of the games out there at high res... and its just below 300$
either that or i would wait for the second gen dx11 hw and get a gts250 1gb or 4850 1gb, both are selling for 99$ now which is a killer deal
all the highend cards right now seem unappealing to me... they dont really deliver any value that is in relation to their cost.
in the past you would be able to crank aa up and play at a really high res if you paid a lot extra... but the 480 and 5870 are both too slow for 2560x1600 in many situations while they are simply "too fast" for 1920x1080
the only point where it makes sense again is sli and xfire, including the 5970... at that point you get enough power for 2560 gaming.
Last edited by saaya; 04-02-2010 at 03:56 AM.
Nothing wrong with that, i've already bought AMD cpu's when for the same price i could have gotten better performance from Intel.you obviously prefer nvidia... theres nothing wrong with that! i hate ccc and nvidia highend cards are pretty solid, expensive, but solid... but please dont tell us your unbiased and just buy 2 480s cause they are oh so awesome
Really annoying hearing the same repetitive excuses, ati drivers suck, i had a bad experience with ATI 10 years ago, bla bla bla... who cares? buy what you like, no excuses, it's your money.
But when you have like 432 posts on a thread saying how you gonna buy Nvidia and why, it start to look like you're goal is making someone else buy it too and thats suspicious.
Yep, agree 100%.Nothing wrong with that, i've already bought AMD cpu's when for the same price i could have gotten better performance from Intel.
Really annoying hearing the same repetitive excuses, ati drivers suck, i had a bad experience with ATI 10 years ago, bla bla bla... who cares? buy what you like, no excuses, it's your money.
But when you have like 432 posts on a thread saying how you gonna buy Nvidia and why, it start to look like you're goal is making someone else buy it too and thats suspicious.
GTX 400's aren't winners but to me they aren't the flat out worst choice for everyone out there either. I would still get a 5870 over a GTX 480, but if you like Nvidia better, 470 and 480's are pretty solid cards too and you don't have to justify your decision with things that make little sense.
INTEL Core i7 920 // ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 // OCZ 3G1600 6GB // POWERCOLOR HD5970 // Cooler Master HAF 932 // Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme // SAMSUNG T260 26"Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Yeah I'd much rather not hear justifications. The people who feel they have to tear down the other company in order to justify their own purchases are just sad.
I'll buy an AMD cpu over an Intel simply because AMD has done less to annoy me over the years. I already know that Intel chips are faster, I have an i7 in my laptop afterall. But when I'm looking at parts for my next build I don't even consider Intel options, and yet you don't see me in evey Intel thread in the news sections mouthing off. Wish I could say the same for some of the thread crappers here.
Frankly, I think that kind of outlook is shortsighted. Everyone has their own needs. I elucidate this thought a little more about 3 posts above yours.
I'd say the 5850 is the best right now, with the 5870 in 2nd place
back to sticky!!
i am waiting for the gtx 480 waterblocks , preferably by EK, or swiftech.. its stock cooler sux quite frankly.
hows EVGA's waterblock btw? anyone has experience with it from previous generations??
making choice this round is hard , no clear winner .. i am still jumping back and forth between 480, 5970 and 5870
Last edited by Philip_J_Fry; 04-02-2010 at 11:40 AM.
"Thanks for the f-shack. Love, Dirty Mike & The Boys" - from Dirty Mike & The Boys
I know what you were saying.
You were saying that people should choose a card based on their particular needs, etc...
However in this case, for the vast majority of people who buy fast cards, GF100 simply does not fit their needs.
Yeah, there are circumstances where a GF100 card would be a better choice. But they are basically few and farfetched compared to Cypress.
i would like to say that too, but honestly the Perf/$ is won by last generation cards. which makes me think were all losers for giving into this ridiculous pricing scheme. yes 300$ for a 5850 is good, if this was late 2009, but its now april, and the only happy people are the ones who got on board early. so my vote is a previous generation card, until dx11 becomes important, or until current gen cards drop 30% in price, which better happen within 2 months.
I want to see some SLI GTX 470 benchmarks because it seems like 2 470's would beat or be really close to the 5970 or SLI 5870's for the same money or less. And you could overclock them pretty close to the 480 speeds.
MM H2gO - Win 7 Pro
2 PA120.2 Thermochill
MCP355 w/XSPC res top
i5-2500k @ 5.0ghz w/Heatkiller 3.0
Corsair HX850 - M IV Gene-z
GTX 480 w/DD 480 ni/cu
2 470's would definitely beat a 5970. From what I have seen GF100 scales well, and a 5970 is basically two CF'ed 5850's which 470 usually beats.
However, 5970 can be greatly overclocked. It can easily be used at 920mhz daily, a 200mhz upgrade. Same can't be said about GTX 470's.
INTEL Core i7 920 // ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 // OCZ 3G1600 6GB // POWERCOLOR HD5970 // Cooler Master HAF 932 // Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme // SAMSUNG T260 26"Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
RV770 was pretty killer in price/performance.
I'd say a significant reason the current gen isn't as cheap is because Cypress itself is bigger than RV770 (~330mm˛ vs ~256mm˛).
Not to mention they use 1GB GDDR5 as standard, and also the PCB/PWM is more complex this time.
And for Nvidia, GF100 has been tough to manufacture. Yields will be preventing decent costs.
Though 5xx0 does have the advantage of great performance per watt (RV770 was somewhat lacking in that area)
2 x underclocked (to reduce heat and power consumption) 5870's really (1600 shaders vs 1440)
Last edited by Apokalipse; 04-02-2010 at 11:51 AM.
I agree. But in the end it is up to the individual, not you or I, to decide what will work for them the best.
I'm simply advocating making intelligent purchases. Buying based on facts and rational thought is good, whichever brand one decides on. But buying based on emotions, propaganda, team think, and peer pressure seems to be the norm these days and I'm highly opposed to that kind of irrational thought. It does nothing for you as a customer (except maybe emotionally) and helps reinforce those behaviors as being effective sales tools - as well as financially supporting a company based on factors other then the quality of their product. If that kind of emotional purchasing continues on the long term it ultimately degrades the quality of the products in the marketplace from all companies.
the price of the 4870 and 5870 match very closely when looking at $ per mm2, however thats using the launch prices of 300$ for a 4870 and 400$ for a 5870. and that launch was 6 months ago, after 6 months of the 4870s launch it was down to ~200$. yes a lack of nvidia competition does cause a few problems, but that shouldnt mean every video card should be stuck in limbo (seriously, since last summer, has any brand of any series gone down in price by more than 10%?, and havnt a few gone up?). the 5850 that was going for 280$ shocked me, and i praise them for taking the first step in the right direction.
470's in SLI SOUNDS good, and I used to be interested in the value of SLI'ing/CF'ing good value cards until I read about microstuttering. Now, I'm of the belief that one card is the way to go until it starts dragging its feet...then you just buy a new one. This way, you don't have to worry about an optimal SLI/CF ready platform either. Plus, if you're actually PLAYING games and not just running benchmarks to break world records or gain inches on your e-peen, then a single 5850/470 is fine for any game out now.
Last edited by Baron_Davis; 04-02-2010 at 01:50 PM.
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