The Fermi Thread - Part 3

[Apokalipse]

That's a dual GPU card @ $700 IF you can find one in stock and as I mentioned... Fermi SLI is the absolute fastest there is right now? Don't even try the 5970 CF because quad GPU scaling is NOT good and if you can find them 5970 is $700 so that'd be $1400 and again scaling isn't good.

Didn't you try to argue that you wanted the fastest no matter what the cost? If that's the case, then it is 5970 CF.

Yes, quad GPU's tend not to scale so well. And they do cost a lot. But like you said, if you want the fastest, it does cost money.

If you want something that's fast, doesn't have to be the fastest but it'd be nice if it was close, 5870 is the perfect card right now.

[570091D]

Didn't you try to argue that you wanted the fastest no matter what the cost? If that's the case, then it is 5970 CF.

Yes, quad GPU's tend not to scale so well. And they do cost a lot. But like you said, if you want the fastest, it does cost money.

If you want something that's fast, doesn't have to be the fastest but it'd be nice if it was close, 5870 is the perfect card right now.

for you maybe.... not everyone plays the same games, has the same hardware, same monitor, same usage habbits.... c'mon man. it's up to each customer to decide what's best for them... gtx470 sli seems to be in my future.

[Apokalipse]

for you maybe.... not everyone plays the same games, has the same hardware, same monitor, same usage habbits.... c'mon man. it's up to each customer to decide what's best for them... gtx470 sli seems to be in my future.

See, I just don't understand this. How is 470 or 480 a better purchase against a 5850, 5870 or 5970?

I'm not anti-Nvidia or anything, but I really think that ATI has won this generation.
Cypress isn't the fastest GPU, but it's cheaper, much lower on power consumption and it works well in crossfire (which will give best performance if that's what you're after).
I don't really see a price point where GF100 is better suited than one or more Cypress cards/GPU's

[Solus Corvus]

I'm not anti-Nvidia or anything, but I really think that ATI has won this generation.

Frankly, I think that kind of outlook is shortsighted. Everyone has their own needs. I elucidate this thought a little more about 3 posts above yours.

[Baron_Davis]

I'd say the 5850 is the best right now, with the 5870 in 2nd place

[Manicdan]

I'd say the 5850 is the best right now, with the 5870 in 2nd place

i would like to say that too, but honestly the Perf/$ is won by last generation cards. which makes me think were all losers for giving into this ridiculous pricing scheme. yes 300$ for a 5850 is good, if this was late 2009, but its now april, and the only happy people are the ones who got on board early. so my vote is a previous generation card, until dx11 becomes important, or until current gen cards drop 30% in price, which better happen within 2 months.

[Apokalipse]

i would like to say that too, but honestly the Perf/$ is won by last generation cards. which makes me think were all losers for giving into this ridiculous pricing scheme. yes 300$ for a 5850 is good, if this was late 2009, but its now april, and the only happy people are the ones who got on board early. so my vote is a previous generation card, until dx11 becomes important, or until current gen cards drop 30% in price, which better happen within 2 months.

RV770 was pretty killer in price/performance.

I'd say a significant reason the current gen isn't as cheap is because Cypress itself is bigger than RV770 (~330mm² vs ~256mm²).
Not to mention they use 1GB GDDR5 as standard, and also the PCB/PWM is more complex this time.

And for Nvidia, GF100 has been tough to manufacture. Yields will be preventing decent costs.

Though 5xx0 does have the advantage of great performance per watt (RV770 was somewhat lacking in that area)

2 470's would definitely beat a 5970. From what I have seen GF100 scales well, and a 5970 is basically two CF'ed 5850's which 470 usually beats.

2 x underclocked (to reduce heat and power consumption) 5870's really (1600 shaders vs 1440)

[Apokalipse]

Frankly, I think that kind of outlook is shortsighted. Everyone has their own needs. I elucidate this thought a little more about 3 posts above yours.

I know what you were saying.
You were saying that people should choose a card based on their particular needs, etc...
However in this case, for the vast majority of people who buy fast cards, GF100 simply does not fit their needs.

Yeah, there are circumstances where a GF100 card would be a better choice. But they are basically few and farfetched compared to Cypress.

[Solus Corvus]

I know what you were saying.
You were saying that people should choose a card based on their particular needs, etc...
However in this case, for the vast majority of people who buy fast cards, GF100 simply does not fit their needs.

Yeah, there are circumstances where a GF100 card would be a better choice. But they are basically few and farfetched compared to Cypress.

I agree. But in the end it is up to the individual, not you or I, to decide what will work for them the best.

I'm simply advocating making intelligent purchases. Buying based on facts and rational thought is good, whichever brand one decides on. But buying based on emotions, propaganda, team think, and peer pressure seems to be the norm these days and I'm highly opposed to that kind of irrational thought. It does nothing for you as a customer (except maybe emotionally) and helps reinforce those behaviors as being effective sales tools - as well as financially supporting a company based on factors other then the quality of their product. If that kind of emotional purchasing continues on the long term it ultimately degrades the quality of the products in the marketplace from all companies.

[Wolf132]

I want to see some SLI GTX 470 benchmarks because it seems like 2 470's would beat or be really close to the 5970 or SLI 5870's for the same money or less. And you could overclock them pretty close to the 480 speeds.

[570091D]

See, I just don't understand this. How is 470 or 480 a better purchase against a 5850, 5870 or 5970?

I'm not anti-Nvidia or anything, but I really think that ATI has won this generation.
Cypress isn't the fastest GPU, but it's cheaper, much lower on power consumption and it works well in crossfire (which will give best performance if that's what you're after).
I don't really see a price point where GF100 is better suited than one or more Cypress cards/GPU's

EDIT: that post was way too pissy sounding....

i will buy based on my needs, not what you believe my needs are. thank you.

[Apokalipse]

EDIT: that post was way too pissy sounding....

i will buy based on my needs, not what you believe my needs are. thank you.

And I was stopping you from doing that how?

[tajoh111]

EDIT: that post was way too pissy sounding....

i will buy based on my needs, not what you believe my needs are. thank you.

Additionally from what I have seen Tri SLI seems to be the fastest solution.

IF SLI gtx 480 are sometimes beating a 5970 by 60 percent as in anandtech review(and at the very worst beating it by 15 percent, with an average about 40 percent), tri sli is bound to win even against a pair of 5970 . And they happen to more or less cost the same, although you might need a big power supply(and if was me I would use atleast
1 water block on the center card).

Also for some, 3d gaming might be another reason to go with NV. 3d everything is taking off and AMD doesn't have anything setup in this regard.

[Apokalipse]

Additionally from what I have seen Tri SLI seems to be the fastest solution.

IF SLI gtx 480 are sometimes beating a 5970 by 60 percent as in anandtech review, tri sli is bound to win.

Are you comparing three 480's against one 5970?

Also for some, 3d gaming might be another reason to go with NV. 3d everything is taking off and AMD doesn't have anything setup in this regard.

Actually they are already starting to add 3D support.

But then personally I think it's just a fad that companies are using to sell more useless ****.

[Svnth]

Are you comparing three 480's against one 5970?
Actually they are already starting to add 3D support.

Just FYI

3D through Quad-buffer support requiring the developer to implement it themselves != the tech/scope and game-support of 3D Vision

[tajoh111]

Are you comparing three 480's against one 5970?
Actually they are already starting to add 3D support.

But then personally I think it's just a fad that companies are using to sell more useless ****.

No, 3 gtx 480 vs 2 5970.

If it were a fad, we wouldn't have tonnes of 3d capable monitors coming out. I havent heard anything with AMD 3d initiative.

[Solus Corvus]

IF SLI gtx 480 are sometimes beating a 5970 by 60 percent as in anandtech review(and at the very worst beating it by 15 percent, with an average about 40 percent), tri sli is bound to win even against a pair of 5970

Still, unless you have evidence that is true, then it's just speculation. CF/SLI scaling doesn't always work as expected - especially across more then two GPUs. Which GPUs win would likely be dependent on which game being used.

[grimREEFER]

See, I just don't understand this. How is 470 or 480 a better purchase against a 5850, 5870 or 5970?

i think i would rather have a gtx 470 than either a 5870 or 5850.

When you look at things such as minimum frame rates and tessellation performance, it makes me think that you would be better off with it for future games.

now was it worth waiting 6 months for, no, but now that it's here, it's certainly a valid option.

[H2O]

i think i would rather have a gtx 470 than either a 5870 or 5850.

When you look at things such as minimum frame rates and tessellation performance, it makes me think that you would be better off with it for future games.

now was it worth waiting 6 months for, no, but now that it's here, it's certainly a valid option.

+1. Exactly my reasoning.

[YukonTrooper]

i think i would rather have a gtx 470 than either a 5870 or 5850.

When you look at things such as minimum frame rates and tessellation performance, it makes me think that you would be better off with it for future games.

now was it worth waiting 6 months for, no, but now that it's here, it's certainly a valid option.

I preordered a GTX 470 for the minimum framerates and amazing performance @ 1920X1200 w/ AA + AF among other reasons. Firstly, I fold, and we've all see the Folding@home performance. Secondly, Fermi looks prepared to really shine with future DX11 titles (tessellation, as you say). The best part, though, is that Fermi is brand new, so we'll see some nice performance gains from future driver releases. Those types of gains are long gone for Cypress. Unless, of course, ATI decides to intentionally butcher IQ settings for better benchmarks.