The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[NaMcO]

I know, but where's the differences, i mean something that really notices like Unigine's Heaven demo (which doesn't even count as a DX11 product - it's only a demo/benchmark).

[zalbard]

I know, but where's the differences, i mean something that really notices like Unigine's Heaven demo (which doesn't even count as a DX11 product - it's only a demo/benchmark).

I agree.
However, some people like to be able to crank all the settings up in any case, so this would be a good purchase for them.

[Jowy Atreides]

Last decade or not, you STILL don't need new cards or DX11.

I actually do

[Iconyu]

I know, but where's the differences, i mean something that really notices like Unigine's Heaven demo (which doesn't even count as a DX11 product - it's only a demo/benchmark).

I'd like to see the difference over the entire demo rather than just the part with heavy tesselation, as I'm not sure the picture is as clear cut as nvidia says it is.

If tesselation doesn't impact on anything else and it's basically free polygons then fine it's superior. If however there is a impact somewhere else, that would mean games would have to lose texture or shader detail to crank the tesselation level above the 5870 comfort zone.

That's not something I'd like to see, as games have been using shaders to give objects a more realistic look for so long having a balance of both would be much better than losing one for the other.

[Sentential]

It's awesome how people fail to see that the R600 design too was long, and the card ended up big, hot and disappointing; but AMD used nearly the exact same design in 3000s, 4000s and 5000s and all those cards kicked butt.

Over-reaching uarch that is ahead of its time normally has that problem. Just look at the NV30; people lament about how a terrible GPU that was but forget that it was the basis of the NV40 and subsequent 7900 series that was wildly successful.

What ATi appears to have understood is that the product itself isnt what draws sales; its the execution. Eventually the power/die issues with solve themselves in time. Just make damn sure you get to market first and make sure the features and rollout is executed flawlessly and for the love of god know your limits.

Nvidia desperately needs to learn this lesson... It is one thing if you are a gov't agency like DARPA; sure unlimited funds and unlimited time? Go for it make your Fermi. Nvidia however appears to have forgotten they are in the buisness of making money not padding their company ego or solving world peace one tesla card at a time.

Make a card the PEOPLE want; NOT what YOU want. Simple Buisness 101. ATi gets it; nVidia clearly doesnt.

[Metroid]

...

Great post, this reminds me of what Microsoft did with its XBOX 360, "gets first in the market, try us", by doing that Microsoft gave the chance to customers to see what was all about.

ATI used to be so good before the X2900 with its X1900 which was the best card around, now is just like those days.

The customers want to buy, if a new standard came up then give the option to them to adhere it, my point is If Fermi is 10% faster than the HD5870 would you replace your HD5800, remember that you already have DX11? wiser buyers would not do it even if it is 15% faster.

[Bodkin]

^ I wish I could get a 5870, but I love 3d vision too much. Hope someone comes up with a ati version soon now 10.3 has basic support for it

[kl0012]

Charlie hits again.
Nvidia's Fermi GTX480 is broken and unfixable

[BenchZowner]

Charlie hits again.
Nvidia's Fermi GTX480 is broken and unfixable

2-3 pages late bro

Charlie is entertaining

[mapel110]

hmmmm competition caught up and at the same time their new architecture is delayed by at least 2 quarters if not 3 (it was supposed to come out before nov originally), their gpgpu segment fails to kick off, their tegra segment fails to kick off, they lost their chipset business almost entirely thanks to intel locking them out and amd not extending their license either, the gaming industry moves more and more away from the pc as a gaming platform and to consoles and mobile devices instead... yeah... this is one of nvidias best quarters ever... 0_o

A1 TapeOut was ready by the end of october, so the earliest date would have been late November for a launch with Availability in December.
DesktopGPUs grow about 19%
QuadroGPUs grow about 25%
Overall GPU-Buiness increased by 22%

nvidia delivers RSX for Playstation3 and PhysX for WII, Playstation3 and Xbox360.
The ION-Chipset is in the Mac-Mini
and so on and so on. There is no reason to believe, nvidia will get in trouble in the next few quarters.

nvidia is more and more developing software and thats a much safer ground than a possible little advantage for ATI to be some months early to the market with hardware. You will see when they move to Global Foundries, that it doesn't matter that much.

[FischOderAal]

The "ION-chipset" how you call it is 9400M and this chipset can be found in every MacBook as well. But this might change with i3 and i5 (an update of the MacBook Pro series is overdue).

PhysX is FREE afaik. RSX was designed by NVIDIA, but I doubt they earn money with each PS3 sold.

But Tegra looks good. To bad there are already quite a few competitors in the SOC-market and (nearly) all the manufacturers that use SOCs care about is: costs. NVIDIA has to price Tegra 2 very competitive.

We will see how this all works out.

[Sentential]

Mapel110 what you say is true; their software is and always has been excellent and their laptop chips are doing well too. However what most people are concerned by is how they have backed themselves into a corner.

#1 They dont make AMD chipsets anymore and are now at the mercy of having AMD "allow" SLI on their boards. What if they tell nvidia to sit-and-spin?

#2 They so thoroughly peeved intel off with how they were constantly raped for SLI support back in the netburst days and then forced to support the abomination that is the 780i chipset they had to pratically beg intel for *ANY* kind of sli support for lga1156

All its gonna take is one slip up; ONE gpu that doesnt get sales before people tell them to take a long walk off a short bridge

[saaya]

^ I wish I could get a 5870, but I love 3d vision too much. Hope someone comes up with a ati version soon now 10.3 has basic support for it

? ever heard of iz3d?

its a shame though that there is no active shutter glass kit easily available in retail that isnt nvidia branded and locked to nvidia hardware... :/

[ElSel10]

What if they tell nvidia to sit-and-spin?

1. That would Never happen with the way AMD is struggling. They can't do anything to potentially alienate any of their customer base.

2. If they did, who cares? AMD board sales are not getting any bigger and Intel dominates in that respect.

[FischOderAal]

If you're going for SLI you're going for the fastest platform there is, too, and that is S1366. I don't think it would do much harm to AMD.

[saaya]

A1 TapeOut was ready by the end of october, so the earliest date would have been late November for a launch with Availability in December.
DesktopGPUs grow about 19%
QuadroGPUs grow about 25%
Overall GPU-Buiness increased by 22%

nvidia delivers RSX for Playstation3 and PhysX for WII, Playstation3 and Xbox360.
The ION-Chipset is in the Mac-Mini
and so on and so on. There is no reason to believe, nvidia will get in trouble in the next few quarters.

nvidia is more and more developing software and thats a much safer ground than a possible little advantage for ATI to be some months early to the market with hardware. You will see when they move to Global Foundries, that it doesn't matter that much.

RSX makes nvidia money? how?
and does sony like it? will they use nvidia in their next console? i dont think so...
mac mini? isnt that EOL for over a year?
Physix is for free, so again nvidia doesnt make any money off of it whatsoever...
hows this supposed to support nvidia financially in the next few years?

they need professional graphics, rendering movies on gpus etc, plus tegra... thats what has potential... but tegra... havent seen anything with it so far, only zune hd and everybody knew it would flop even before it came out...
tegra2 and tegra3 sound interesting, but then again, this is very console like business and i dont know how much money nvidia can make out of it...

i agree on the software side though, nvidia does a lot more software wise than ati, and they are pretty good at it! im just not sure how much money you can make off of it... in the pro market, sure... but end user?
end users are pretty spoiled in regards to software... google yahoo and microsoft throw great tools at them for years... for free... and apple has even better software than nvidia and its close to free as well...

[mapel110]

PhysX is FREE afaik. RSX was designed by NVIDIA, but I doubt they earn money with each PS3 sold.
.

Sony doesn't earn money with selling the PS3, but nvidia does. nvidia gets paid by Sony, not by the buyers of the PS3.

/edit
Okay, PhysX is free, wrong information on my side.

[FischOderAal]

Sony (still) has to subsidize the PS3, I won't argue that. But I think you didn't understand what I meant. While NVIDIA might've been the one that developed RSX, Sony is the owner of the design. This way Sony doesn't need to buy the chip from NVIDIA and can produce it in their own plants (does Sony still have some?) or wherever they seem fit. NVIDIA got money for it once, for the development of RSX, but not for each chip in each Playstation 3.

At least that's what I read somewhere.

[SKYMTL]

? ever heard of iz3d?

its a shame though that there is no active shutter glass kit easily available in retail that isnt nvidia branded and locked to nvidia hardware... :/

IMO, IZ3D suffers from a lack of money and thus isn't able to finance development. Their technology incorporating a pair of lower-quality panels into a single display can't even hold a light to 3D Vision and other competing technologies.

[CadESin]

Tegra is cool, and I love my Zune HD as it loads songs much faster then a Ipod Touch. But Nvidia is a GPU company, thats what they do. Sure they have made chip-sets, good ones too, back in the my AMD FX Nvidia was the only chip set I would use. They no longer can make chip sets for the big markets, Ion has more or less failed due to how Intel is pricing Atom and the only point of Ion is to say you can "kinda" play games on it and maybe watch a blue-ray if you can find a dual core Ion box, which is hard to find retail here in VT (we only have best buy).

I would expect the new MS phone to use Tegra so theres some money for Nvidia. If Nvida wants to turn in to Via and make net-book and cell phone chips, go them. But that won't help the market much when it comes to GPU pricing.

[Your_Boss]

Where's "Fermi Thread Part 3"? Another usless 670 posts of crap!


..damn 671, mine!

[***Deimos***]

Tegra is cool, and I love my Zune HD as it loads songs much faster then a Ipod Touch. But Nvidia is a GPU company, thats what they do. Sure they have made chip-sets, good ones too, back in the my AMD FX Nvidia was the only chip set I would use. They no longer can make chip sets for the big markets, Ion has more or less failed due to how Intel is pricing Atom and the only point of Ion is to say you can "kinda" play games on it and maybe watch a blue-ray if you can find a dual core Ion box, which is hard to find retail here in VT (we only have best buy).

I would expect the new MS phone to use Tegra so theres some money for Nvidia. If Nvida wants to turn in to Via and make net-book and cell phone chips, go them. But that won't help the market much when it comes to GPU pricing.

You very much underestimate the performance and features of ION/ION2 and Tegra. They are both outstanding products - leaders in their segments.

But, you are right about nVidia's focus being off. ION is at mercy of Intel's pricing whims, and thus low (lower than Intel) margin. Tegra is just starting to grow a market, and likewise a small chip with little margins.

Let not forget nVidia has no license for DMI.. ie Core i3/i5/i7. Once they replace the Core2Duos in the market, ION will be platform-less.

nVidia built the whole "empire" on high end graphics. Consumers dont buy a $50 silicon chip, but the promise of revolutionary gaming experience delivered through a $300-$600 video card. Side projects like ION/Tegra are good for some spare change, but not the bread and butter of the business.

CAN SOMEBODY MAKE A PICTURE OF DWAYNE JOHNSON FOR MARCH!?

[Olivon]

AvP's almost ready.

Even with DX11, this game is ugly and total faily

[Bodkin]

? ever heard of iz3d?

its a shame though that there is no active shutter glass kit easily available in retail that isnt nvidia branded and locked to nvidia hardware... :/

Sure have, but I dont want a sub standard 2d mointer

[trinibwoy]

compute shader for games? idk... except for ai and physics, what could you use it for? and nvidia will push devs to use physix instead of compute shader, so all thats left is ai... and that works very well on the cpu and nobody likes to touch ai programing cause its so damn complex...

Compute shaders are already used for:

Battleforge: SSAO
Stalker-CoP: SSAO, Contact Hardening shadows
Metro2033: DoF
Dirt2: SSAO