MMM
Page 1 of 6 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 132

Thread: 12 Feet Under: 1000 Square Feet of Geothermal PC Cooling

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    66

    Lightbulb 12 Feet Under: 1000 Square Feet of Geothermal PC Cooling

    After a couple of years of wanting to do a deep geothermal cooling loop everything has come together to make it a reality. I kept convincing myself I I could settle with a few giant radiators and a huge case but this project's components are actually quite a bit cheaper. The 300 feet of geothermal pipe coil and the Iwaki pump together were less than a 560mm SR-1 radiator for example.

    All the major components are already on the way or already here, and the excavator is nearby and ready to go. However, the continued wet weather will most likely delay digging the trench until it stops raining or snowing twice a week. This will make a big enough mess in my yard and the hill my house is on as is.

    I also need to order the 1-wire temperature components and wired pulse flow water meter to gauge the effectiveness of this project. Some extra time to get that all planned, wired, and programmed before digging will be helpful.

    Logging and testing the cooling capacity year round will be where most of the fun is at in the end. For example, I'm interested in seeing if the loop temperature changes while going down to and from the trench coils. Black PE pipe insulation and strips of blue foam will be used on all the exposed and shallower buried piping to keep as much of the outside ambient temperature changes from affecting the loop. The whole point is to capture the deep grounds relatively steady temperature year round. Letting it get too cool in the winter, or too warm in the summer defeats that.

    The current loop layout is described in the following image. The ground loop coils aren't shown at the bottom but the text explains them. Google geothermal coil loops if you don't know what they look like installed in a trench. They're a bit hard to draw pixel by pixel.




    I'm conveniently located in Virginia whose seasonal ground temperatures are depicted in this image.



    My big unknown is how my much my sites location on top of a deep natural well affect the temperatures. If I delay the digging I can jam pipes deep down with temperature sensors but in the end I'm limited in site location. The drain field, septic tank, and utility wires occupy three sides of the house. The last side is a 15 foot hill. Digging at the top should result in well drained soil, but would cause erosion.

    Eventually I might separate the geothermal loop from the PC(s) and instead cool them through copper coils in another tube reservoir. It'll depend on how much restriction I have. For now the simplest way to start is to have one PC directly in the loop as pictured and measure the flow with my king instrument flow meter.

    I'll then add more blocks to the loop to see how much flow would be lost from hooking up additional computers in-line. Going parallel with ball valves to control the amounts of flow to each PC is also an option. Each block in the main PC could also be hooked up in a parallel fashion with quick disconnects as well. That way a restrictive (chipset) block wouldn't kill the flow for the others.

    The long tube res also makes it simple to dump more heat into the loop through an inexpensive high wattage aquarium heater. If the cooling capacity is as good as I think it will be, I'll need to do more than one to saturate the loops cooling capacity. Live 1-wire logging of this will be GREAT.

    300 feet of 3/4" ID geothermal HDPE SDR11 pipe. 3/4" is the sweet spot for price, head loss, and flexibility. Moving to 1" ID wouldn't increase this pumps flow rate much and the increased wall thickness nearly negates the extra cooling surface. This coil has an OD of 1.05 inches or a total surface area of 990 square feet. The amount of soil contact and its temperature is much more important than the thermal conductivity of the material.

    Copper has ten times the thermal conductivity of HDPE but its still limited by the soils capacity to remove the heat. 3/4" ID type L copper also costs 10x more, before freight! Going to down to an exact 1/2" ID from this pipes .86 would also increase the head pressure loss from 16 to 160 feet of head pressure. That all made HDPE the only effective choice and cemented the go big or go home aspect of this project.




    To overcome the tubing's friction loss a suitable pumped designed for high pressure had to be found. Luckily surplus Iwaki MD-30RZT pumps available for less than $125 shipped. They have a perfect PQ curve for this project and aren't too thirsty with power requirements at 1 amp max. Look at all of that restriction busting head pressure! I've calculated that half of it will be used to overcome my HDPE pipe's friction and vertical rise. That still leaves 18 feet of theoretical head pressure at 4gpm for the water blocks. That's twelve times more head pressure than a DDC 3.2 at 4gpm.




    The 3" PVC tube reservoir (some hack sawing and PVC cement required).



    The pump should arrive Friday and the piping should have already been delivered. Unless FedEx lost it in Hagerstown, I'll try to test a simulated loop this weekend. The pump will go upstairs and the coiled pipe will sit outside at the ground level to simulate the trench depth. The flow meter results will be enlightening. I have spare quick disconnects sitting around so I can easily throw in a few blocks or even hook the loop up to my PC and test the indoor ambient cooling while waiting for improved weather. Stay tuned, that's future update material for sure.

  2. #2
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    839
    This is crazy Xtreme, and for that reason alone I love it.

    Iwakis are great pumps. Had a MD-20RZ with the Japanese motor a few years ago in a build. Rock solid.

  3. #3
    Xtreme Guru
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Wichita, Ks
    Posts
    3,887
    holy mother i wanna see pics! great idea cant wait to see it implemented. legendary!
    "Lurking" Since 1977


    Jesus Saves, God Backs-Up
    *I come to the news section to ban people, not read complaints.*-[XC]Gomeler
    Don't believe Squish, his hardware does control him!

  4. #4
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    155
    And BAM This is why I love this site, you sir are Xtreme

  5. #5
    Xtreme Cable Management Freak
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,308
    my god man... i cant wait.. *runs to get popcorn*
    Project: HeadShot
    Intel i7 3770k | Corsair H100
    EVGA GTX-590 Classified | XSPC GTX 590 Waterblock
    Gigabyte G1.Sniper 2 MotherBoard | Swiftech MCR-320 Res/Rad/Pump
    16GB Corsair Vengeance Low Profile Ram
    Crucial M4 128GB / Intel X25-M 160GB / WD 1TB Black
    Corsair AX850W PSU
    27" Apple Cinema Display (2560x1440)
    Corsair 600t White
    Picture

    You best be Crunching and Folding/GPUgrid'ing!

  6. #6
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Perth Australia
    Posts
    651
    Excellent idea mate, nice to see you have the balls to have a go at it, all the more power to you.

    Do you have any idea as to how much heat (watts) this system could support?

  7. #7
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    colmar, france
    Posts
    458
    Xteeeeeme !

    don't you think you should get 2 different coolant loops? one "dirty" going in the ground and a clean one to cool the components with heat exchanger in between ???
    I know you got a filter, but anyway... gonna have oxidation problem I'd say...

    but the idea's great


    doctor pepper's desk
    EVGA P55 FTW | i5 650 @ 4GHz | 4Gb Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600 XMS3 | XFX 4870 1Gb | Corsair X32 | Samsung SpinPoint F1 - 320Go | Fractal Design Newton R2 650W | Samsung P2450H | Microsoft Laser Desktop 7000 | JBL Spyro Black
    AirCooling: Prolimatech Mega Shadow | Xigmatek Bifrost | Fractal Design SATA Cluster Box | Fractal Design 2x120mm, 2x140mm and 1x92mm

    Cosmos-S
    Foxconn BloodRage Rev1.1 Bios P07 | i7 920 D0 @ 4,629GHz max & 4,3GHz stable | 6Gb Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600 | XFX 5870 | Sonar X-Fi | Intel X25-M 80 Go PostVille | Samsung SpinPoint F1 - 1To | Corsair HX620W | CoolerMaster Cosmos S | Samsung T240 | Logitech MX-5500 & Z-2300
    Watercooling: Laing DDC + plexi top and tank | CPU - HK 1366 rev 3.0 LT | GPU - EK Water Blocks EK FC5870 V2 - Acétal Nickel | MB - Foxconn's original | HDD - HK SilentStar HD-Single rev 2.0 | radiator - 3x120mm | tubing - High Flex 10/16mm | red PrimoChill ICE coolant


  8. #8
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,884
    Quote Originally Posted by MaByBoI View Post
    my god man... i cant wait.. *runs to get popcorn*
    You might want to rob a movie theater to get the amount of popcorn you'll need. I suspect building this will take a while.

  9. #9
    NooB MOD
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    5,799
    This is SPARTAN MADNESS

    I'll be watching this one
    Xtreme SUPERCOMPUTER
    Nov 1 - Nov 8 Join Now!


    Quote Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides View Post
    Intel is about to get athlon'd
    Athlon64 3700+ KACAE 0605APAW @ 3455MHz 314x11 1.92v/Vapochill || Core 2 Duo E8500 Q807 @ 6060MHz 638x9.5 1.95v LN2 @ -120'c || Athlon64 FX-55 CABCE 0516WPMW @ 3916MHz 261x15 1.802v/LN2 @ -40c || DFI LP UT CFX3200-DR || DFI LP UT NF4 SLI-DR || DFI LP UT NF4 Ultra D || Sapphire X1950XT || 2x256MB Kingston HyperX BH-5 @ 290MHz 2-2-2-5 3.94v || 2x256MB G.Skill TCCD @ 350MHz 3-4-4-8 3.1v || 2x256MB Kingston HyperX BH-5 @ 294MHz 2-2-2-5 3.94v

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    66
    Quote Originally Posted by kgtiger View Post
    Excellent idea mate, nice to see you have the balls to have a go at it, all the more power to you.

    Do you have any idea as to how much heat (watts) this system could support?
    Anecdotal evidence but:

    BTW, it turns out that the thermal flux per-linear-foot of SDR-11 HDPE pipe is almost independent of pipe diameter (at least, for 0.75", 1.00", 1.25" sizes).

    Smaller diameter pipe has less surface area, but also thinner walls -- so in each case, the net heat transfer is about 7.1 BTU/hr-LinearFootOfPipe-°F (+/- 1%).

    For example, my 3-ton Envision ND038 at stage2 extracts 24,000 BTU/hr from my loop's 1000 ft of in-ground pipe. That's 24 BTU/hr/LinearFootOfPipe, so the required average delta-T across the pipe wall is: 24/7.1 = 3.4°F.

    If my math is OK (corrections welcome), this shows that the T.C. of (my) loop piping is only about 20% of the heat transfer picture. The other 80% is in the thermal conductivity of the grout and surrounding soil/rock.
    I'll have at least 200 feet in the ground cooling which would be worth 4,800 BTU/hrs or 1406 watts at a 1 degree F delta in that guys setup. I'll have cooler, deeper soil but a higher pipe density due to overlapping the loop once. My geographical location, depth, soil types, water table, and natural water run off to this spot will be the most important factors the cooling capacity.

    Quote Originally Posted by josk1 View Post
    Xteeeeeme !

    don't you think you should get 2 different coolant loops? one "dirty" going in the ground and a clean one to cool the components with heat exchanger in between ???
    I know you got a filter, but anyway... gonna have oxidation problem I'd say...

    but the idea's great
    That was my original plan until finding this high head pump. Its still a possibility after I get the basic loop finished and test ready. I'll want to collect this single loop data for comparison purposes regardless.

    All the connections will be above the ground and mostly valved so tinkering won't be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandr0s View Post
    You might want to rob a movie theater to get the amount of popcorn you'll need. I suspect building this will take a while.
    Getting the 1-wire system figured out and operation is going to be my biggest bottleneck. If it isn't worth strapping temperature probes to the tubes buried underground this could go a lot faster. I'm starting to convince myself the loop temperature will be so close there that it doesn't matter or the ground will throw them off. Buried in-line sensors are out of the question.

    I could place only one sensor in the trench to get the loops soil temperature and only measure the HDPE pipes temperature in-line at its ends. If that's good enough, the loop could be finished in days with the sensors coming online later.

    The piping coil arrived today.


    The coil markings. I have two fittings to jam into the ends but need to pick up the double clamps. At this "low" pressure they shouldn't leak. Proper fusion bonded connectors for HDPE piping is quite a bit out of the budget.


    The Caterpillar 325 xtreme pc project tool.


    The four foot wide bucket with a cameo appear of my house in the top right. That corner is where my computers are and where the HDPE pipes will probably come up. The crawl space is several feet high on the side of the hill so working under there will be easy.

  11. #11
    Chasing After Diety
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Absolutely Speachless :O
    Posts
    11,930
    oh dayam..

    and I thought Naja was insane...

    Hey OP, a member named Naja did something simular... you may want to check out his log:
    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=207565
    Nadeshiko: i7 990 12GB DDR3 eVGA Classified *In Testing... Jealous? *
    Miyuki: W3580 6GB DDR3 P6T-Dlx
    Lind: Dual Gainestown 3.07
    Sammy: Dual Yonah Sossoman cheerleader. *Sammy-> Lind.*

    [12:37] skinnee: quit helping me procrastinate block reviews, you asshat. :p
    [12:38] Naekuh: i love watching u get the firing squad on XS
    Its my fault.. and no im not sorry about it either.

  12. #12
    Xtreme Legend
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Plymouth (UK)
    Posts
    5,279
    When you said you were going down 12 ft I was thinking that was about the limit of a smaller backhoe but using a 360.....just how deep could you go? I love the scale of this project


    My Biggest Fear Is When I die, My Wife Sells All My Stuff For What I Told Her I Paid For It.
    79 SB threads and 32 IB Threads across 4 rigs 111 threads Crunching!!

  13. #13
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,884
    I love that Cat xD. I guess we'll need a little less popcorn if you plan on using that to dig the hole xD.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    66
    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    When you said you were going down 12 ft I was thinking that was about the limit of a smaller backhoe but using a 360.....just how deep could you go? I love the scale of this project
    Like you said, a rented backhoe is much more reasonable could do this type of project well enough. It would just take longer to the dig the trench. Without going wider than the 4' bucket I was told not to expect much more than this depth. We'll have to see how much the walls want to keep caving into the trench on the big day.



    All the main components are now on hand. Except for some Norprene, Lowe's carries the rest of the items needed for the project. They're going to start repeatedly seeing me in the plumbing department.

    In other news, I've decided to move the geothermal trenches location as far uphill as possible. It seems like the drier, naturally drained soil is safer bet to maintain a constant temperature year round. I'll still look into installing a ground temperature sensor deep in the bottom of the hill for comparison purposes. Another loop could be installed there in the future if the temperature results turn out to be more consistent.


    Ground temperature sensors installation how-to




    The revised overview:



    The tentative schedule and to-do list is:

    Friday: Uncoil piping outside to take advantage of the mostly sunny weekend. Visit Lowe's to buy up all their 1" PE tube insulation and all the items needed to hook up the utility room components. The computer area's Ts, valves, and adapters could be started on too. I haven't fully decided on the crawl space piping yet so I'll finish the inside areas first.
    Saturday: Assemble the reservoir. Finalize mounting plans for the utility room components. A ventilated pump box for vibration and noise dampening purposes will be needed for example.
    Sunday: Hook up the pump, res, and the filter upstairs to simulate the trench depth. Connect them to the ends of the geothermal pipe to check the flow and to ensure the fittings don't leak. After running it during the day to check for leaks, the pipe will have to be drained down the hill to prevent it from freezing overnight. Possibly cap off the piping to minimize organic growth?
    Next week: Do measurements in the crawl space and to the planned trench. Start forming coils and zip tying the piping to its final form. Insulate the piping that will go to and from the trench with the black PE tubes. Start doing whatever it is I'll do with the blue sheets of foam (cut up strip layers? wrap around?). A rented trencher from Home Depot will probably be needed at work next week. If so, quickly borrow it to dig a trench from my house to where the pit will be. Start to bury that insulated piping with the blue foam surrounding it in some fashion. Receive and wire some temperature sensors to the coiled tubing with burial cat5e. Also bury it in the thin trenched line. Decide on, purchase, and insulate the crawl space piping. Possibly shallowly bury said piping with blue foam sheeting. Secure the pieces coming out of the ground to the house. Drill the four holes into the floor, connect the pipes, insulate and properly seal the holes. Hook up the geothermal piping to test the fully assembled loop. Install OWFS on a linux server and troubleshoot/finalize the 1-wire network. Phew!
    Unknown: Wait for the ground to be reasonably dry and get the geothermal trench dug, lower the assembled coils in, and carefully back fill.
    August: Learn how well it actually cools in the hot humid summer heat and possibly declare victory.

  15. #15
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    166
    you sir are definitely xtreme... lol
    i7 920 D0 @ 4.01ghz 1.25v
    Rampage III Extreme
    24gb Corsair Vengeance @ 1600mhz 8-8-8-24-1T
    eVGA GTX 1070 Founders Edition
    Silverstone 1000w
    Corsair 800D
    Liquid Cooled - CPU/MB - EKWB Supreme HF/Full Cover MBWB, Iandh 225 res, D5 w/XTOP rev. 2, Feser x-changer 360, Bitspower fittings



  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Acreageville, Alberta
    Posts
    1,411
    I have always wanted to do something like this. I thought and thought about the bset way to go about it and could never really seem to iron it all out.

    I will be watching this very closely to see if it is do-able at my acreage.

    Simply Xtreme as all hell, and I love it!!


  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    957
    I thought of doing this at a smaller scale. My plan was to fab a custom rad, a huge one like 4'x8' and press it to my basement wall since it's always cool in the basement anyways.


    BTW coolest project on XS by far

  18. #18
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,171
    Now this is what I call extreme! I can imagine trying to explain to my wife why I have a humongous full sized Caterpillar pulling up into the yard. She really would think I am nuts then.

  19. #19
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,884
    Lol, you'd be one of the lucky ones then. I believe there are several wives that already think we're completely nuts, just for liquid cooling our PC.

    And I would love to see the response if you tell you're wife the caterpillar is for your computer. Because it needs moar cool!

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    244
    You know you're xtreme when you get a CAT out to help cool your pc

    subscribed

  21. #21
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Athens -> Hellas
    Posts
    944
    Very nice project concept...if i had large yard i would also try... Subscribed to see progress & results...

  22. #22
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    722
    Holy Jebus this is Xtreme! This Im looking forward to se =)
    Loonym...You are missed.

    The element of one

    Breathe me in
    Breathe me in

    I disbelieve in separation. I close my eyes to see you.
    This is for you, everything I am. This is for you, take it from me.
    I, I disbelieve separation. I close my eyes
    there's no escaping me
    This is for you, everything I am. This is for you, take it from me.
    In your heart in your soul. I perceive rejuvenation

    Breathe me in. I am forever. Deep within I am eternal.

    I will return to you. I am with you always. I will never turn away from you.

  23. #23
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Tenbury Wells, Worcestershire, UK
    Posts
    103
    dont wanna put a spanner in your works but the further you go down the warmer it is... so you will end up heating your pc :S

    geothermal heating in houses.
    animals bury down in the ground for winter to keep warm.

    the only time you go under the ground for cooling is when u need shade, like in the desert.

    not sure how this will turn out but damn its extreme

  24. #24
    Xtreme Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    France
    Posts
    950
    That, is the final dream of many of us. It has been done already by very few others (only one i can remember) and indeed when pc modding requires a caterpillar, it's definitely extreme Good luck sir this is an epic project.

  25. #25
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,884
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazloy View Post
    the only time you go under the ground for cooling is when u need shade, like in the desert.
    Or if you're looking for a constant temperature throughout the year. As you can see in his chart, at 12ft, the temperature is pretty constant throughout the year. It's true that the deeper you go, the warmer it gets, however, this increase over such a short distance is minimal. It's similar to saying the nickelplating on waterblocks has a significant impact on your temps. The distance is just to small to have any serious impact.

Page 1 of 6 1234 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •