The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 2!

[Teemax]

I condone the re-branding of products method, in business signed: Decami 2/2/2010

You and everyone else can complain all day about how much it "annoys" you, but the fact of the matter is, its an insanely profitable market strategy and used by more companies than you can possibly know, not just Nvidia, this is nothing new, at all.

whats it do? make money on the weakest links of the consumer, we fortunately are not those links, be happy that you aren't and move on. Nvidia rebrands, oh god, lets freak out every time they do, and every time every other company does. Not gonna change a thing. I figured people would be over this by now.

back to fermi talk....

Actually, please give us some concrete examples of tech companies doing the rebrand game?

I believe NVIDIA is the undisputed leader of this game. Sometimes other companies do it too, but when they get caught, it's trouble.

BTW, just because someone else does it doesn't make it "right"; nor does it mean that we as customers have to accept such behavior.

[Teemax]

You don't have to follow tech closely or be a techie to be informed no more than you have to be a mechanical engineer to purchase a car. What it boils down to is that those who are looking for a specific thing will do their research while those who don't care will simply buy what they have budgeted for regardless.

Its not about being in a minority group of folks that follow tech, its about having the basic common sense to know what you are spending your hard earned money on. Its the basic common sense to be somewhat informed before making any purchase unless you simply don't care at which point it doesn't matter either way.

So, when a company deceives people by putting a new sticker on it, it's the consumer's fault for falling for this scheme?

GREAT logics there! The absurdity is unbeatable...

[Florinmocanu]

Doesn't the 5970 have a 2x256 bit memory interface, not a unified 512?

yeah, ofc. But it's just they way they write the bandwidth. They wrote 896 for the GTX 295 so it's pretty clear that it's just the way they write it.

[zalbard]

Mtriangles/s figure for 5970 is wrong I think, should be double of that.

Doesn't the 5970 have a 2x256 bit memory interface, not a unified 512?

Sure. But doesn't matter, really, the bandwidth would be the same in both cases.

[saaya]

So, when a company deceives people by putting a new sticker on it, it's the consumer's fault for falling for this scheme?

GREAT logics there! The absurdity is unbeatable...

maybe hes into anarchsim or believes in some sort of darvinism in the marketing world

it does make sense to some degree... and its happening already... all the "not so smart" people fall for the most pathetic marketing shemes and waste their money on things they dont need, while more considerate buyers are able to have a high standard of life with the same income as a result of managing their wealth better and buying good products they really need

[570091D]

Actually, please give us some concrete examples of tech companies doing the rebrand game?

I believe NVIDIA is the undisputed leader of this game. Sometimes other companies do it too, but when they get caught, it's trouble.

BTW, just because someone else does it doesn't make it "right"; nor does it mean that we as customers have to accept such behavior.

you should be HOPPING mad at toyota/pontiac for the matrix/vibe!

As for product offerings, when they are marketed separately to several target markets this is called market segmentation. When part of a market segmentation strategy involves offering significantly different products in each market, this is called product differentiation. This market segmentation/product differentiation process can be thought of as a form of rebranding. What distinguishes it from other forms of rebranding is that the process does not entail the elimination of the original brand image. Dexxa computer mice are rebranded Logitech devices sold at a lower price by Logitech in the low-end market segment without undercutting their mid-range products. Rebranding in this manner allows one set of engineering and QA to be used to create multiple products with minimal modifications and additional expense.

wiki

there is a reason companies rebrand products, it's not the end of the world, i think it's time we put this topic to rest.

[ElSel10]

Sure. But doesn't matter, really, the bandwidth would be the same in both cases.

You can't add bus width like that. AFR mirrors the memory for GPU1 in GPU2 so the bandwidth is still 256-bit effective, iirc.

[kgk]

I think he means just 1 8pin & 1 6 pin instead of dual 8 pins as the first rumors regarding the card's power req.

While linking to a picture showing only one 8-pin power connector and the article making no mention of the other power connector?

Mmmkay.

[kgk]

You can't add bus width like that. AFR mirrors the memory for GPU1 in GPU2 so the bandwidth is still 256-bit effective, iirc.

That's what I always thought, but if adding them magically makes it 512-bit, who am I to disagree....

[LesGrossman]

So what will be out first? Fermi or The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 3 ?

[BatteryOperated]

So what will be out first? Fermi or The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 3 ?

The Fermi Thread part 3. Yes, I really mean that. I sincerely hope down the line, you gents learn that future proofing and performance projects and promises are one thing : talk.

TALK = TALK.
I don't give a hoot in hell how many people break NDA, leak "insider information," have contacts to high level engineers, or toss out free video cards at a lan party, talk is talk.

Nvidia, get the molasses out your ass. Seems the older your company gets, the slower it gets, the dumber it gets; beat you with the inside of a horses' ass.

[highoctane]

So, when a company deceives people by putting a new sticker on it, it's the consumer's fault for falling for this scheme?

GREAT logics there! The absurdity is unbeatable...

Do you buy a house without doing research, do you buy a car without doing research, do you blindly buy your groceries at the store without looking at exp dates, do you buy gas from the most expensive gas station, do you buy the first flat panel lcd screen you see without researching or reading the specs, do you buy whatever ram is on the shelf without knowing its specs, do you buy just any tire for your car without knowing what size or rating they are, do you still buy pet food known to be tainted and can kill your pet, do you spray your lawn with herbicide without reading the label and understanding what it is first, do you just up and go on vacation without doing research on the destination.............

Being informed/educated is a consumers responsibility, to think that that the consumer is not capable of making an informed decision by reading the box or ask questions of the product they intend to buy is ridiculous.

If people don't know what the flip they are buying maybe they shouldn't be buying it without getting their knowledge on first, a novel idea yes....

[Nedjo]

So what will be out first? Fermi or The GT300/Fermi Thread - Part 3 ?

well we're month away from GeForce GTX470/480 thread

[Marios]

So no GTX480 SLI benches this time from ChrisRay

[h0bbes]

Being informed/educated is a consumers responsibility, to think that that the consumer is not capable of making an informed decision by reading the box or ask questions of the product they intend to buy is ridiculous.

If people don't know what the flip they are buying maybe they shouldn't be buying it without getting their knowledge on first, a novel idea yes....

That's quite narrow minded in my opinion. You would be surprised by how ignorant you or me or the average customer is when it comes to everyday shopping such as food. But anyway that's irrelevant. I expect somebody who buys specific hardware parts(eg gfx cards) to be fully aware of what he is buying, even though i doubt the average person considers renaming. If another person who doesn't really bother with computers (yes such people exist) decides to buy a tower or a whole computer system, they won't really know if the gfx card is an old one with just a new name. It is logical to assume that if the model has a different numbering system (eg from 200 to 300), then it is most probably a newer and I can think of lots of friends of mine who would fall into that trap. Yes it is ultimately their mistake but you have to be aware of something in order to look for it.

[Solus Corvus]

I think he means just 1 8pin & 1 6 pin instead of dual 8 pins as the first rumors regarding the card's power req.

Considering that the fastest single GPU card at the moment (5870) only needs 2x 6-pin and that most dual-gpu cards (4870x2, 295, 5970) require 1 8-pin and 1 6-pin. And considering that Tesla is a cut down chip with lower clocks. No, I don't think it necessarily bodes well for power consumption.

Note that simply having 1 6-pin and 1 8-pin doesn't necessarily mean high power consumption either. And even if it does have high power consumption, I don't see why most of us here would care. As long as it delivers a reasonable perf/W to go along with it's power draw, I don't care if it has 4x 8-pins.

[highoctane]

That's quite narrow minded in my opinion. You would be surprised by how ignorant you or me or the average customer is when it comes to everyday shopping such as food. But anyway that's irrelevant. I expect somebody who buys specific hardware parts(eg gfx cards) to be fully aware of what he is buying, even though i doubt the average person considers renaming. If another person who doesn't really bother with computers (yes such people exist) decides to buy a tower or a whole computer system, they won't really know if the gfx card is an old one with just a new name. It is logical to assume that if the model has a different numbering system (eg from 200 to 300), then it is most probably a newer and I can think of lots of friends of mine who would fall into that trap. Yes it is ultimately their mistake but you have to be aware of something in order to look for it.

I wouldn't call it narrow minded, we all have freedom to choose how we spend our money and to make sure we spend it as wisely as we can.

Generally in life there is nobody holding your hand and walking you through a purchase of any sort. It is up to the individual consumer to take some initiative and become familiar with what they are spending their money on so they are not just blindly throwing money away without knowing what they are actually buying or if they even need it.

The way to be aware of something is to at the very least do some very basic research before making a purchase and become an informed consumer regardless of what it is, its simply good practice to know what the heck you are buying, why you need it or what it will do.

Thats not to say I haven't made my share of spur of the moment purchases that where bad which is why I try to take a little more time before making certain purchases now.

I'm not going to try and justify any sort of relabeling but I do believe it is ultimately up to the consumer to make responsible decisions regardless.

Anyways its waaaaaay off topic, we need more fermi information already!!!!

[Teemax]

Do you buy a house without doing research, do you buy a car without doing research, do you blindly buy your groceries at the store without looking at exp dates, do you buy gas from the most expensive gas station, do you buy the first flat panel lcd screen you see without researching or reading the specs, do you buy whatever ram is on the shelf without knowing its specs, do you buy just any tire for your car without knowing what size or rating they are, do you still buy pet food known to be tainted and can kill your pet, do you spray your lawn with herbicide without reading the label and understanding what it is first, do you just up and go on vacation without doing research on the destination.............

Being informed/educated is a consumers responsibility, to think that that the consumer is not capable of making an informed decision by reading the box or ask questions of the product they intend to buy is ridiculous.

If people don't know what the flip they are buying maybe they shouldn't be buying it without getting their knowledge on first, a novel idea yes....

From your description, I'd have to imagine that most of your days are spent "doing research" to avoid being a "stupid consumer" then.


I guess I belong to the "stupid consumer" category actually. I buy food without doing much research, I go for the brands I trust. I buy gas from a station close-by (it's not worth it to go across town for the cheapest station). I buy clothes because they look nice without doing exhaustive research of their material or production method. I have brands that I trust from experience. And buy paying more for these brands, I save on piece of mind.


So, besides hardware, how do you spend your day "researching" the things that you buy? Must be a full time job I suppose!

[Teemax]

The way to be aware of something is to at the very least do some very basic research before making a purchase and become an informed consumer regardless of what it is, its simply good practice to know what the heck you are buying, why you need it or what it will do.

OK, quick (since you're such an expert); please list the renames of NVIDIA cards that you know of, oh-mister-knowledgable?

No looking up. And I hope to have a reply in 5 mins since you're here

[Teemax]

BTW, not sure if anyone posted this, but here's a little update from Fudzilla:
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17524/1/

- Name-change was last-minute (rename game hit unreleased product too )
- No partner has a card yet(??!, is a March launch even possible?)
- CeBIT is the first showing of retail GTX 480/470

[highoctane]

From your description, I'd have to imagine that most of your days are spent "doing research" to avoid being a "stupid consumer" then.


I guess I belong to the "stupid consumer" category actually. I buy food without doing much research, I go for the brands I trust. I buy gas from a station close-by (it's not worth it to go across town for the cheapest station). I buy clothes because they look nice without doing exhaustive research of their material or production method. I have brands that I trust from experience. And buy paying more for these brands, I save on piece of mind.


So, besides hardware, how do you spend your day "researching" the things that you buy? Must be a full time job I suppose!

You can label yourself how you see fit, if thats how you feel is not for me to decide.

You're making a bunch of irrational assumptions on what I actually wrote.

If you actually go back and spend a little more time reading what I wrote and cool your top a little what I wrote about food it was in regards to exp dates such as say milk and breads, as far as reading the package to make sure it isn't expired or expiring before you can have a chance to consume it not what its made of or how its processed.

Gas stations are everywhere and odds are you will hit many on your journey to your destination, you're free to spend your money at whichever you want but thats no excuse for being wasteful if there is a cheaper gas station on the way than the first one you come to on the corner.

Do you spend your days ranting about how brainless you seem to feel the rest of civilization may be and how everybody needs to have a special friend looking over their shoulder to help them make a wise decision in the big bad evil world???

You surely can make your own decisions based on what you know why don't you give the rest of the world a little credit that they can be as bright as you and get through the smoke and mirrors of life just the same.

I'm not your do boy to answer your questions for things you can google yourself.

As the saying goes, give a man a fish he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime.

Go get fishing and answer your own questions....

[zerazax]

i sense a part 3 of this thread coming sooner than expected...

yeh if i dont l*** ati arse.. im a total retard

go on have more kool aid.. take it easy

riiighhht, just cause im skeptical about Nvidia mean's i'm an ATI guy

who's drinking who's kool aid right now?

[Teemax]

Do you spend your days ranting about how brainless you seem to feel the rest of civilization may be and how everybody needs to have a special friend looking over their shoulder to help them make a wise decision in the big bad evil world???

No, actually I spend my day researching stuff before I buy so I don't get labelled "stupid", or "brainless" by you, oh-knowledgable-master!


I'm really really sorry it's my fault to point out a shady business method. I'm so sorry to voice my objection to a scheme that I think will hurts NVIDIA's name in the long run. And I'm especially sorry to dare to disagree with a mighty company!


I'll shut up now and do more research now. In fact, I need to ask for a day off tomorrow to do just that

/sarcasm

[BenchZowner]

And sometime in the near future... in 2055 some people will grow up a bit...

[LordEC911]

fermi: x*y=z
x = texture units
y = shader clock
z = texture fillrate


fermi:
higher pixel+texture fillrates
higher shader power
higher memory bandwidth/size
higher efficiency across the board

and more but according to ati brilliants here it barely matches 5870 lol

Fail... you need to go read the whitepapers again, unless you like making stuff up.
The only thing you are correct on is pixel fillrate, memory bandwidth and bus size.

Mtriangles/s figure for 5970 is wrong I think, should be double of that.

Yep, should be double the 725, aka 1450.

You can't add bus width like that. AFR mirrors the memory for GPU1 in GPU2 so the bandwidth is still 256-bit effective, iirc.

Yes, but each GPU has access to all the 256bit bus. It isn't like each GPU has to split a 128bit bus.