So si the Typhoon 3 fixed?

[RoadconeTuning]

looks like its a good thing i didnt wait and go with a d5 back when i was building... too bad considering how badass this thing did for two loops on one pump.

[Silverhawk]

There are no visible cracks on mine, though I got my unit quite late, so the QC for it might have been better? I'm just quite afraid of putting it into the chassis. So far its been running outside for several weeks without any signs of leaks/cracks.

[SoulsCollective]

Unfortunately that's no indication that it'll work fine in the case. The issue seems to be the vibrations of the pump combined with the fluctuating water temps of a typical loop - and without the T3 being installed in a case via screws into the side threads, the vibrations may not cause cracking at those weak points.

[washu9]

There are no visible cracks on mine, though I got my unit quite late, so the QC for it might have been better? I'm just quite afraid of putting it into the chassis. So far its been running outside for several weeks without any signs of leaks/cracks.

Wouldn't do it if I were you. If one of these can crack without being used, it WILL crack on use.

[Silverhawk]

Unfortunately that's no indication that it'll work fine in the case. The issue seems to be the vibrations of the pump combined with the fluctuating water temps of a typical loop - and without the T3 being installed in a case via screws into the side threads, the vibrations may not cause cracking at those weak points.

Wouldn't do it if I were you. If one of these can crack without being used, it WILL crack on use.

But if I don't put it into the case... it would be quite pointless? The whole reason I got it in the first place was so I could do a more or less all internal build.

I will probably have to think of some way to install it into the case, and create some sort of protection/early warning system incase it leaks.

@miller, I know you've used T3 in your builds, how are they holding up for you?

[Baulten]

You know, I don't understand what good it would do for the primochill reps to be posting here in every thread. I'm not happy about this and am replacing mine (not willing to take the chance), but honestly, we know what's going on. What good is it going to do to have posts telling us the same thing over and over?

The RMA service is another deal and is completely unexcusable. If they can't replace it, they should refund everyone who has an RMA request. At least then those people might be willing to buy products from Primochill in the future. As it is... I don't think I'm willing to.

[Waterlogged]

Yay! I love being right.

I know you guys can't help it, just like the scorpion, it's who you are.

I should also point out that Primochill can't just chuck the molds and start from scratch, the damn things co$t as much as a car to make. I do seem to recall Geno saying that they were going to try and fix them however. . .that could be another part of the reason it is taking so long.

[washu9]

Unfortunately that's no indication that it'll work fine in the case. The issue seems to be the vibrations of the pump combined with the fluctuating water temps of a typical loop - and without the T3 being installed in a case via screws into the side threads, the vibrations may not cause cracking at those weak points.

Don't think so, even without securing the sides of the T3 with screws, there's still a large possibility of it cracking over there. Closer inspection of my T3 makes me think that the shape of the res itself seems to indicate that it would crack from repeated temp raise/drop eventually.

Acrylic is not really such a good choice for applications involving complex shapes and high temp changes as it expands and contracts more than other alternatives... albeit cheaper to produce.

Simple shapes (plates) are mostly ok, just need to take into account the expansion/contraction of the acrylic material itself. Complex shapes would make the acrylic push against itself and thus crack. Molding the whole portion of complex shapes on 1 casting should have helped, but not by much.

I'd again state the gross error in the designer for putting the screw retainers in the acrylic without any spacer in between. Acrylic and metal have different expansion-contraction rate. With the spikes of temp, the metal would expand more than the acrylic, thus breaking the acrylic surrounding the screw retainers.

[washu9]

Yay! I love being right.

I know you guys can't help it, just like the scorpion, it's who you are.

I should also point out that Primochill can't just chuck the molds and start from scratch, the damn things co$t as much as a car to make. I do seem to recall Geno saying that they were going to try and fix them however. . .that could be another part of the reason it is taking so long.

If I had any say in it, I'd still vote for 'chuck the old mold out the window'. Design faults all over it. It's better to start from scratch. Even if it costs as much as a car, it's not worth the bad publicity you're getting/going to get when it starts to crack again.

If you can fix it fast, fine, fix it. If it takes this long to fix... it's time to throw in the towel and either make a new mould, or just refund everyone.

[Waterlogged]

If I had any say in it, I'd still vote for 'chuck the old mold out the window'. Design faults all over it. It's better to start from scratch. Even if it costs as much as a car, it's not worth the bad publicity you're getting/going to get when it starts to crack again.

If you can fix it fast, fine, fix it. If it takes this long to fix... it's time to throw in the towel and either make a new mould, or just refund everyone.

They are also switching material from cast acrylic to ABS.

[washu9]

They are also switching material from cast acrylic to ABS.

ABS is much more durable, but I'd still at least get the whole back portion (with the intricate shapes) should be full solid instead of the current design. At the very least covering up to the screw locations.

Doesn't really take much change in the mould, it'd just cost a bit more materials to make.

Also need the rubber spacer between the screwholes and the res (for the screwholes that's supposed to secure the res to case). Goes a long way to dampen vibrations. Using rubber/foam washers just won't cut it.

The screwholes for the pump retainers need to be deeper though. There were reports of cracks going over that area as well. Another reason to make the back portion of the res full solid. Although in this one, instead of using spacer on the screwholes, rubber/foam washers on the plate would be the way to go to help reduce vibrations cause by the pump from transferring to the res.

[hchristian]

Yay! I love being right.

I know you guys can't help it, just like the scorpion, it's who you are.

I should also point out that Primochill can't just chuck the molds and start from scratch, the damn things co$t as much as a car to make. I do seem to recall Geno saying that they were going to try and fix them however. . .that could be another part of the reason it is taking so long.

Yea the mold would cost as much as a car if made by a reputable manufacturer

Made in an obscure chinese factory though... I doubt it cost as much
The quality of the mold speaks for itself

[Z Overlord]

Oh my so much in this thread.

So why do the XPSC things (the res's with dual 355's) work well but not this? It's a shame since the idea of the T3 is by far the best ever used in WC imo.

But to the poor implementation.

[washu9]

Oh my so much in this thread.

So why do the XPSC things (the res's with dual 355's) work well but not this? It's a shame since the idea of the T3 is by far the best ever used in WC imo.

But to the poor implementation.

XSPC have different design. all of the outside are plain thick plates, all the complex shapes doesn't even touch the air once it's filled. If you see the back of T3, it's full of complex shapes to maximize container capacity and reduce cost of materials. With the complex shapes, it should all be solid on the back there.

You also need to take into account of the orientation of the pump itself.
Sideway mount like the T3 means there are concentrated stress points. on the pump housing (eg. bottom more than the top). Again, .... need thick solid base on the back.

XSPC res have the pumps on vertical orientation. Solves problem with cracking of the pump retainer. Having the orientation this way make stress point dispersed to all points.

Also, if you noticed, the screwholes on the XSPC have some kind of black rubber/plastic spacer between it at the acrylic. This is to prevent the acrylic being cracked open by the expansion of the metal screwholes when it gets hot.

Also note, 355 does produce less vibration than the 655. Even with 2 of em, the vibration stresses are spread through a large area.

[meanmoe]

Oh my so much in this thread.

So why do the XPSC things (the res's with dual 355's) work well but not this? It's a shame since the idea of the T3 is by far the best ever used in WC imo.

But to the poor implementation.

Agreed, it's a shame. It is a beautiful concept. If only EK would've produced it or if motherboards could learn to swim.

[Waterlogged]

XSPC have different design. all of the outside are plain thick plates, all the complex shapes doesn't even touch the air once it's filled. If you see the back of T3, it's full of complex shapes to maximize container capacity and reduce cost of materials. With the complex shapes, it should all be solid on the back there.

You also need to take into account of the orientation of the pump itself.
Sideway mount like the T3 means there are concentrated stress points. on the pump housing (eg. bottom more than the top). Again, .... need thick solid base on the back.

XSPC res have the pumps on vertical orientation. Solves problem with cracking of the pump retainer. Having the orientation this way make stress point dispersed to all points.

Also, if you noticed, the screwholes on the XSPC have some kind of black rubber/plastic spacer between it at the acrylic. This is to prevent the acrylic being cracked open by the expansion of the metal screwholes when it gets hot.

Also note, 355 does produce less vibration than the 655. Even with 2 of em, the vibration stresses are spread through a large area.

First problem I see with this post is your forgetting that the XSPC is for DDC's which do not require a retainer to hold the pump in place.

Second problem is those black things on the side are o-rings that are meant to isolate the res from the case to prevent vibration transfer. If you read this post from woffen, it seems they are failing in that task.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...8&postcount=43

[Baulten]

Oh my so much in this thread.

So why do the XPSC things (the res's with dual 355's) work well but not this? It's a shame since the idea of the T3 is by far the best ever used in WC imo.

But to the poor implementation.

Because the XSPCs use DDCs which don't require the same mounting mechanism as D5s? They are not comparable. Primochill has screwed this up, that's true. But AFAIK they blamed it on the shoddy Chinese manufacturer not properly manufacturing. We'll see what happens once it's moved back stateside with new material.

[karbonkid]

Mine is one of the first ones, with the straw coloured band. Been using it for months, in a case. With a D4 aswell which I think vibrates a lot more than the D5. Not a single crack...

I may regret saying this quite soon. I just want to point out that not everyone'es experince correllates with what is being said in this thread.

[washu9]

Mine is one of the first ones, with the straw coloured band. Been using it for months, in a case. With a D4 aswell which I think vibrates a lot more than the D5. Not a single crack...

I may regret saying this quite soon. I just want to point out that not everyone'es experince correllates with what is being said in this thread.

That's an encouraging fact.

But we still haven't heard a peep from primochill in regards to replacements... and it's been months... rather disheartening...

For me, they have not even responded to my RMA request.
Only got an automatic response that said the msg got logged.

[Waterlogged]

That's an encouraging fact.

But we still haven't heard a peep from primochill in regards to replacements... and it's been months... rather disheartening...

For me, they have not even responded to my RMA request.
Only got an automatic response that said the msg got logged.

I can certainly understand your frustration but you also have to realize that production doesn't simply happen over night. Here is the time line for this situation (as I understand it).

• Primochill decides to move production from China to California.
  
• Chinese company refuses to fill out paperwork so the molds can be shipped.
  
• Primo hires a "rescue company" to retrieve molds
  
• Molds head to US (presumably by ship, which will take ~2-4 weeks). At ~2' square, they are very small (by comparative measures to say, a 767), but they aren't exactly light, so plane is pretty much ruled out as shipping costs wouldn't be worth it.
  
• Molds go to new plant in US to be cleaned, fixed and tweaked. This could be as little as a day or as long as a month, depends how bad the Chinese trashed them.
  
• Test products with new material are made and put through the wringer. Process is repeated until suitable products are produced.
  
• Geno and Brian final OK them and start shipping again

It would be nice though if someone who is actually involved in the process would pop up and give us a clue as to what step they are at.

[strike]

I can certainly understand your frustration but you also have to realize that production doesn't simply happen over night. Here is the time line for this situation (as I understand it).

• Primochill decides to move production from China to California.
  
• Chinese company refuses to fill out paperwork so the molds can be shipped.
  
• Primo hires a "rescue company" to retrieve molds
  
• Molds head to US (presumably by ship, which will take ~2-4 weeks). At ~2' square, they are very small (by comparative measures to say, a 767), but they aren't exactly light, so plane is pretty much ruled out as shipping costs wouldn't be worth it.
  
• Molds go to new plant in US to be cleaned, fixed and tweaked. This could be as little as a day or as long as a month, depends how bad the Chinese trashed them.
  
• Test products with new material are made and put through the wringer. Process is repeated until suitable products are produced.
  
• Geno and Brian final OK them and start shipping again

It would be nice though if someone who is actually involved in the process would pop up and give us a clue as to what step they are at.

nice there mate

anyone ? from primochill ?

[Z Overlord]

I hope this revised T3 comes out soon. I want it so badly.

[DarthBeavis]

I will get more info for you guys when I get home fm PDXLAN on Monday. I am NOT related to Primochill, so I have no authority. I am friends with Geno so anything I relay will just be the results of that type of communication and does not indicate a business response - sorry for the disclaimer but I really feel bad about this situation and want folks to be taken care of and not suffer further confusion due to me

[DarthBeavis]

Spoke with Geno today. He said they have a small batch of the new parts in . . .he is tapping and assembling them to be sent out for those who have submitted an RMA

[meanmoe]

DB,
Thanks. Did he give an approximate ETA?