being loyal to a manufacturer is retarded..only you lose and as Zera said John...if fermi isnt a lot faster then the 5870 to almost 5970 speeds then its pretty much fail this round..i mean if 5870 is only say 10-20% slower..then the 5870 refresh will probably fill that gap(being as 5870s at 1ghz fill that gap i cant see ati releasing a refresh without 1ghz core's..atleast 950 at the very least) so overall ati has 5-6months of winning..then releases a refresh more then likely at a price thats more affordable making nvidia drop prices and lose money on their cards...just seems like nvidia failed this go round....it happens im sure they will have a refresh of this card that will fix some of the issues...same thing ati went through with r600..looked good on paper..pretty much was a flop however the arch was good enough to get amd/ati to where they are now..which is in the lead..