Nvidia responds to Batman:AA

[Truckchase!]

since when GPU makers have to pay and work with game developers just to get AA running?

This is the key point. If you "outsource" industry standard features to "partner" companies where do you draw the line?

The real criminal here is the game developer; nV is just a willing partner.

[Kaldor]

Can you imagine a world in which consumers took responsibility? Seriously think about it. Your phone company decides to make another hike in monthly payments to cover infrastructure (as they say) but yet give the CEO's a massive bonus. Now if consumers were smart and responsible they would move over to a different company forcing the other company to shape up. But this does not happen as so many people in this world is as complacent as a deer in headlights and it is really sad. You basically have given the companies the golden shovel to do as they wish and to behave as they wish. Many of you think competition is the real economy shaper. It is not. It simply offers choice. The reason why competition is so regarded today is because the consumer has become stupid and irresponsible. Look at the economy and look at what caused it to fall. That's right..."irresponsibility". Sometimes I am embarrassed to call myself ...human and wonder if I was put here as a cruel joke. There are a few here that get it but it is in short abundance and the rest of us will suffer under the ignorance of others. It is sad indeed.

Absolute crazy talk. +1

[Farinorco]

You have not ansewed by question about false advertising, and second you said if i buy a game I can do what I want with it. This is not true, you own a licence and must stick to it.

I must be expressing bad or something. I've not answered about false advertising because I've nothing to answer about false advertising. Why you suppose I've to say nothing about false advertising?

I wanted you to note (1) that you're misinterpreting the meaning of closed source, and (2) you are supposing that because they have a license that you have to agree, they can do what they want with the product. That's not this way. Being commercial doesn't grant them the right to do what they want.

And I think I haven't said anything about what you have to do with your product and it's license. When have I said that you don't have to stick to the license?

I'm starting to be kind of confused with some arguments by here...

[Sadasius]

Absolute crazy talk. +1

Tell me about it. Think it's time for me to hit the padded room for another 10 years!

[Bodkin]

Wow, my bad, got you confused with another post. My apologys

[Farinorco]

Wow, my bad, got you confused with another post. My apologys

Don't worry about it

[w0mbat]

Well, the games devs dont need Nvidia to implement AA but they need Nvidias money to exclude ATI. Some ppl thinks AA is there cause Nvidia made an effort - LOL!

Its jus stupide and shows that they dont threat their customers equaly.

[jaredpace]

Well, the games devs dont need Nvidia to implement AA but they need Nvidias money to exclude ATI. Some ppl thinks AA is there cause Nvidia made an effort - LOL!

[Eson]

Well, the games devs dont need Nvidia to implement AA but they need Nvidias money to exclude ATI. Some ppl thinks AA is there cause Nvidia made an effort - LOL!

Its jus stupide and shows that they dont threat their customers equaly.

Spot on.

[To(V)bo Co(V)bo]

Well, the games devs dont need Nvidia to implement AA but they need Nvidias money to exclude ATI. Some ppl thinks AA is there cause Nvidia made an effort - LOL!

Its jus stupide and shows that they dont threat their customers equaly.

I dont like this guy, but he has a point.

[SquiZZ]

Sure is a lot of freeloading hippies here...

So people who bought the game are freeloaders because they just found out that AA is no longer considered the norm but a selling point and they are against it?

It's disappointing to see so much of you support this. If this is to be allowed than it's going to be the worse thing that happened since DLC.

I never thought I'd say this but I'll support consoles before I see pc gamers being penalized for not buying the right hardware become the new standard.

[gumballguy]

This is the key point. If you "outsource" industry standard features to "partner" companies where do you draw the line?

The real criminal here is the game developer; nV is just a willing partner.

+1

If the developers didn't implement AA (which is a basic given feature when releasing a high budget game to today's market) for the second biggest card manufacturer then theyre a**holes.

If they basically had working AA, and didn't validate it for ATI cards, what gives? Thats crap, and that's lazy.

[drizzt5]

And this explains why Batman Demo could run AA fine on ATI Radeon, after changing the device_id. NOT!

Im sorry but this is a typical PR response they have given you Fugger

Good first post. Respectful and I agree.

[Decami]

LOL! So when Nvidia says something it has to be true but not when AMD does? How is that?

The truth is probably somewhere in between. Sure AMD/ATI could have worked closer with the developer to ensure AA was functional but at the same time it should be in the developers interest to see their game look as good as possible on any hardware. And to claim hardware wasn't available is ridiculous, the 4870/4850/4770/4890 costs less than an i7 965 - the four of them together.

Not saying I totally back up Nvidia here. But your saying these game developers should track down ATI while they sit on their asses and doing nothing to get things from thier company implemented?

If I was the developer and Nvidia showed up at my door ready and willing to tweak polish with their hardware. I wouldn't give a crap if ATI never showed up, lazy idiots. Especially if they had less of the market.

the basic jist i get of this is.

ATI: omg your totally trying to sabotage us.

NV: Get off your but and learn to market!

ATI: But, but, companies should come to us, we shouldnt have to do
anything.

NV: I'm sorry that you think it works that way.

Again who knows what Nvidia actually did to this game was purposely disabling AA for ATI or not. But the fact of the matter is, if ATI would have actually done something about it before hand, not only with this game but others as well, it would have never happened anyway. Not that it makes it ok for Nvidia to disable AA though

[AbelJemka]

Again that ATI did nothing, etc...
You don't even know if they don't come and say :'Will you need help?' and get answered : 'No need Nvidia is already here!'

Recall : AMD pretends Nvidia prevent them for working with TWIMTBP games.

Who's lying? Who's telling the truth? Only Rocksteady knows.

[To(V)bo Co(V)bo]

I see nvidia attempting to monopolize the pc game market with these tactics. Being a PC game it should have some sorta standards in place. What if Nvidia dumped money into windows 7 development and made their own API, they could call it NVX. It would only work on nvidia hardware since nvidia bribed, sorry, implemented this feature. We could then make two versions of windows too while were at it for intel and amd.This would be totally awesome, I then could play only the pc games with NVX. If I owned a ati card then id only have half of the already small list of games released for PC, maybe Ati could create their own API called ATX. This sounds so great I cant believe it hasnt been done sooner.

PC gaming has been on life support for AGES, just kill it off and give up and buy a wii for 200$, these kind of tactics only hurt the PC community and gamers, with you and me both deprived. PC gamers are what fuels the PC market, who really needs a computer with more than 2 cores.

It is false advertisement when you say a game runs with standard PC hardware but only half the game works. There should be a warning label on this game saying full game only Nvidia compatable, (Ati version not validated).

[gamervivek]

It's naive to think ATi does not approach game devs and try and help them making the game run well on their hardware.
I think it was ATis Richard Huddy that once said in an interview what happened when they tried approaching one TWIMTBP game dev to help them out in any way possible. What they got was a middle finger. Yep game dev told them to fsck off cause they already have help from nV.

But most game devs gladly accept any help.

Here is an interview on this topic. Start watching at 10:00.

http://tv.hexus.net/show/2008/09/Int...Richard_Huddy/

very good interview,clears things up.

[Final8ty]

I see nvidia attempting to monopolize the pc game market with these tactics. Being a PC game it should have some sorta standards in place. What if Nvidia dumped money into windows 7 development and made their own API, they could call it NVX. It would only work on nvidia hardware since nvidia bribed, sorry, implemented this feature. We could then make two versions of windows too while were at it for intel and amd.This would be totally awesome, I then could play only the pc games with NVX. If I owned a ati card then id only have half of the already small list of games released for PC, maybe Ati could create their own API called ATX. This sounds so great I cant believe it hasnt been done sooner.

PC gaming has been on life support for AGES, just kill it off and give up and buy a wii for 200$, these kind of tactics only hurt the PC community and gamers, with you and me both deprived. PC gamers are what fuels the PC market, who really needs a computer with more than 2 cores.

It is false advertisement when you say a game runs with standard PC hardware but only half the game works. There should be a warning label on this game saying full game only Nvidia compatable, (Ati version not validated).

It would seem strange that a PC games developer would not have at least one card from both vendors, its not like it would break the bank.

Maybe the help from NV was with installing the card.

[Decami]

Again that ATI did nothing, etc...
You don't even know if they don't come and say :'Will you need help?' and get answered : 'No need Nvidia is already here!'

Recall : AMD pretends Nvidia prevent them for working with TWIMTBP games.

Who's lying? Who's telling the truth? Only Rocksteady knows.

Tapping on the shoulder of a company busy creating a game isn't going to get anything done. Nvidia has an entire marketing strategy and department based on this single thing called "The way its meant to be played" ATI has, hmm........idk....

Example: Me and you have the same product. You go out all over the place displaying the product talking about it, working closely with other companies pushing it. and I just
sit with my development team, doing nothing, still making decent money cause the product is just as good. But for some reason (wonder what that is) im just not making as much as you.
So I blame you completely for sabotaging me, cause these other companies you have made connections with are helping your product make more money than me. So i throw a fit and say your
sabotaging me cause these companies wont come ask me to do the same thing as they are doing with you. (when you had to bust your but to get them to do this)Basically I want something for nothing.

That is my complaint. Not saying its right what happened, and theres no excuse for AA not to work with Batman on ATI hardware. But to be honest. This probably would haven't happened if
ATI made more of an effort to counter Nvidia's "The way its meant to be played"

We dont know whats happening behind the curtain. But even if Nvidia is bullying their way into the development of games and pushing ATI out. Its ATI's own fault
for not paying attention and being on top of their game with the marketing of their hardware.

[.Tret]

I'm not a game developer so I don't know anything about that process. I also don't know much about the relationships they have with amd and nvidia and the making of their games. So if there are any real game developers that can explain it plainly, that would be awesome; I will add that knowledge to my brag folder.

All I know is I have a gaming PC with a gtx 285 that will soon be replaced with the amd 5870 and I am hopeful that it will work and run the games I play and the drivers work well better than my last card.

Hoping this post isn't off-topic. It is so hard to tell what is on or off topic in the news section here.

[gumballguy]

if ATI would have actually done something about it before hand, not only with this game but others as well, it would have never happened anyway. Not that it makes it ok for Nvidia to disable AA though

This is AA we're talking about. Not some obscure feature. The developers should be shot! I'm pretty sure ATI builds cards that any other capable developer can make AA run on ! AA running on cards from both of the two biggest cards should be mandatory. And nvidia should pretend it knew nothing about not being enabled for ati (whether it did or not is not a necessary assumption)

If they published the game, and instead AA ran on radeon only, I'd still be jacked off with the programmers for laziness. I'd still call it unacceptable.

I don't care whether TWIMTBP and or alleged dodgy nv tactics were involved in this at all. The programmers should never have done this.

[randomizer]

This is AA we're talking about. Not some obscure feature.

For a deferred rendering engine, it is almost obscure.

[gumballguy]

For a deferred rendering engine, it is almost obscure.

I'm interested to hear?

[To(V)bo Co(V)bo]

Tapping on the shoulder of a company busy creating a game isn't going to get anything done. Nvidia has an entire marketing strategy and department based on this single thing called "The way its meant to be played" ATI has, hmm........idk....

Example: Me and you have the same product. You go out all over the place displaying the product talking about it, working closely with other companies pushing it. and I just
sit with my development team, doing nothing, still making decent money cause the product is just as good. But for some reason (wonder what that is) im just not making as much as you.
So I blame you completely for sabotaging me, cause these other companies you have made connections with are helping your product make more money than me. So i throw a fit and say your
sabotaging me cause these companies wont come ask me to do the same thing as they are doing with you. (when you had to bust your but to get them to do this)Basically I want something for nothing.

That is my complaint. Not saying its right what happened, and theres no excuse for AA not to work with Batman on ATI hardware. But to be honest. This probably would haven't happened if
ATI made more of an effort to counter Nvidia's "The way its meant to be played"

We dont know whats happening behind the curtain. But even if Nvidia is bullying their way into the development of games and pushing ATI out. Its ATI's own fault
for not paying attention and being on top of their game with the marketing of their hardware.

Its one thing to invest in a game and make it a better game, and another to selectively improve the game.
Nvidia is just rigging these games to fail on ATI hardware basically, only letting Ati have what they only allow them to have. This is just the same as political lobbying, rub my back rub yours bueracracy. Each company should have the same advantages to be a fair market. What isnt fair is when this activity becomes a standard practice and forces game developers to EXTORT hardware companies to fully support thier hardware. This is just the beginning and we can see this crap for what it is.
When I buy a game I expect and demand it to run great on any hardware, not just on Nvidas. Anything less is comprimising your standards.

Eidos and Rocksteady just lost all respect from me as a gamer. It only matters if your willing to take a stand against these practices, if your not then your just naive and deserve to lose your freedom as a gamer and a patriot.

[AbelJemka]

Hmmm

Example: Me and you have the same product. You go out all over the place displaying the product talking about it, working closely with other companies pushing it. and I just sit with my development team, waiting companies in need of help to call me, still making decent money cause the product is just as good. But for ethical reason (knowing what is ethic) im just not making as much as you and i don't pay companies to hurt you.
So I blame you completely for sabotaging me , cause that the truth these other companies you have payed so much are helping your product make more money than me. So i throw a fit and say your
sabotaging me cause these companies wont come ask me to do the same thing as they are doing with you because you give them more money to shut their mouth. (although you had to bust your but to go to the bank to get money because those suckers don't take credit card!)Basically I want something but you come before and you throw too much money. It's fair i's call aggressive marketing here and corruption there.

That is my complaint. Not saying its right what happened, and theres no excuse for AA not to work with Batman on ATI hardware. But to be honest. This probably would haven't happened if
ATI use more money to counter Nvidia's "The way its meant to be played" by renaming 5 times the same cards : they would have save a bunch of money to corrupt..er...help developper.