What would it take to build a cryogenic cooler?

[sdumper]

The following research and patent proves the idea that I've stated. That using the heat of the vortex tube can be applied in a practical manner to assist in the actual cooling process. The heat of the vortex tube is used to drive a pulse refrigeration cycle.
This is what I was ultimately looking for!
Double inlet arrangement for pulse tube refrigerator with vortex heat exchanger
The heat and sound are combined to produce a rapid compression/decompression wave in a chamber. That alternating wave functions like a sterling engine, but with no moving parts. The result is the heated gas is cooled and sent back into the vortex tube. This is a common feedback device. AND IT WORKS!!

Shingoshi

Are you actually going to build something and if so when?

[Naja002]

Are you actually going to build something and if so when?

Shingoshi is on a fixed income, so he can only squander x-amount of $$/month. My advice would be to just go ahead and pencil this in for one of your retirement activities....

[teyber]

shingoshi we can't see that

[EvoCarlos]

by the time its done it will look like this

[Moc]

I guess it will look like this beauty :

[Shingoshi]

Google > (two-stage Sanyo R-744 compressor)

EDIT: After reading this thread (Ethylene and auto-c), I see that there are underlying reasons why some are eager to reject any attempts to reach extremely low temperatures. The dismissal by some of any validity in a "-100C club" would automatically obligate you to dismiss any attempt for a cryogenic cooler. The main thing to remember here is that I'm not looking to simply prove that I can do it. I want a working system that runs 24/7. That by definition removes any basis of argument as to whether the system is properly loaded. No one builds a system to be run unloaded for 24/7. That just doesn't make sense.

And now that that has been said, I wonder if the two-stage compressor above for R-744 would provide the pressures necessary for R-1150?

Shingoshi

[Shingoshi]

This was posted to one of my questions elsewhere on the web for this topic. It pertains to the issue of lowering vortex tube outlet temperatures in response to inlet temperatures. And like the person said who left this for me, I leave it up to the rest of you to interpret the data.

Gas Liquefaction Using A Ranque_Hilsch Vortex Tube: Design Criteria and Bibliography
This is precisely my intended application.

EDIT: As the performance of the vortex tube is rated by the ratio of pressure between it's inlet and cold outlet, dumping the cold outlet into a vacuum increases the performance of the vortex tube. This can be simply achieved by applying the suction of another compressor to the line the vortex tube's cold outlet feeds into. Going from a positive pressure to a negative pressure consequently will have greater effect in achieving deep cold temperatures. These lowered temperatures can be used in liquefying some gases.

EDIT: The rest of you really need to read the paper above. It is well written and easy to understand. It will give everyone a better understanding of the parameters that are being discussed here. Then a process of collaboration can begin.

EDIT: I would suggest reading this as well. Joule-Thomson Effect
This introduces the performance gains in the system through the use of venturi injectors in conjunction with vortex tubes.

Shingoshi

[teyber]

sounds like you found what you need lets see mocking up and layout eh

[Shingoshi]

sounds like you found what you need lets see mocking up and layout eh

I simply want to make sure that I have the proper implementation before setting about spending money. There are so many variables in the different designs, that they must be fully understood to apply them in combination.

In the process of my reading, I have indeed found that lowering the inlet temperatures lowers the outlet temperatures (on both ends: hot/cold). And this is most easily accomplished by using them in stages just as is done here with cascades. This can be further enhanced by using a heat-exchanger to lower the initial inlet refrigerant temperature as well. Previously, I only thought about cooling the inlet. And now thanks to the comments of Wdrzal, I know I must also lower the heated outlet flow as well. But now I'm working on the plumbing to cool the hot outlet refrigerant temperature so that it can be fed back into the stream feeding the vortex tube. Doing that will produce great benefit in our application here. It will achieve significantly lower temperatures than any of us have anticipated before.

EDIT: This is the effect I'm attempting to accomplish: Carl von Linde Key Inventions

His apparatus for the liquefaction of air combined the cooling effect achieved by allowing a compressed gas to expand (the Joule-Thomson effect first observed by James Prescott Joule and Lord Kelvin) with a counter-current heat exchange technique that used the cold air produced by expansion to chill ambient air entering the apparatus. Over a period of time this effect gradually cooled the apparatus and air within it to the point of liquefaction.

All of this centers on how I plumb the heat-exchanger with the vortex tubes connected to it.

Back to work!
Shingoshi

[Shingoshi]

When I'm all done with this, it's going to look a miniature oil refinery inside my Pelican case. Especially now that I'm beginning to count up the required components. I think I'm just about there for a working model of how to do this. The parts I see as needed are follows:
4x Rechi Compressors (Already acquired)
2x Danfoss Compressors (September?)
1x External Condenser
4x Heat-Exchangers (At least!)
>>>2x M60 HX 3/4" FPT
I already have one of them. 2nd in October?
>>>2x S30 HX 3/4" FPT
One following each compressor stage. > November?
2x Vortex Tubes > December?
2x Venturi Injectors > January?

Yeah, this will take a while.
Shingoshi

[Moc]

And you don't think its better to build a normal SS first?

[Postal Dude]

And you don't think its better to build a normal SS first?

+1

Build and tune a normal SS 1st. 1 stage can be a pain in the ass to get right, what your proposing sounds like a nightmare on paper, in practice i can see alot of wasted money and a broken heart trying to get this setup

[wdrzal]

When I'm all done with this, it's going to look a miniature oil refinery inside my Pelican case. Especially now that I'm beginning to count up the required components. I think I'm just about there for a working model of how to do this. The parts I see as needed are follows:
4x Rechi Compressors (Already acquired)
2x Danfoss Compressors (September?)
1x External Condenser
4x Heat-Exchangers (At least!)
>>>2x M60 HX 3/4" FPT I already have one of them. 2nd in October?
>>>2x S30 HX 1/2" FPT One following each compressor stage. > November?
2x Vortex Tubes > December?
2x Venturi Injectors > January?

Yeah, this will take a while.
Shingoshi

6 compressors + 8 cpu's How many watts is that to reject ? You said 1 external condenser/w/fan, how big is that.

Can you draw a simple line drawing with all that's listed above connected to each other. Just square blocks and lines,nothing fancy. Then label what they are.

Oh one more thing since this is going to be a "Cryogenic" cooler, how are you going to deal with oil freezing ?

[Naja002]

Oh one more thing since this is going to be a "Cryogenic" cooler, how are you going to deal with oil freezing ?

Walt, you're always worried about details. He'll just wrap the compressors in electric heat blankets and that'll fix that. With the extra wattage he'll lose a few degrees, but a good shot of extra R744 will take care of that. See? Now wasn't that easy......

[SoddemFX]

The rest of you really need to read the paper above. It is well written and easy to understand.

Unlike your posts, which i would describe as several hundred lines of meandering diatribe culminating in 12lbs of horse sh*t and three dozen confused readers.

I frankly have no idea what you are trying to do. I have received more comprehensible correspondence from Mr Obuwonga Mwahahu, who i believe wishes to give me a 10% share of his $12M fortune held in the royal bank of Nigeria.

Tom

[gosmeyer]

^Classic^

[tiborrr]

Unlike your posts, which i would describe as several hundred lines of meandering diatribe culminating in 12lbs of horse sh*t and three dozen confused readers.

I frankly have no idea what you are trying to do. I have received more comprehensible correspondence from Mr Obuwonga Mwahahu, who i believe wishes to give me a 10% share of his $12M fortune held in the royal bank of Nigeria.

Tom

Instant Classic

[ultralo1]

That is destined to be sig line material, Can I use it?

[CmB]

Unlike your posts, which i would describe as several hundred lines of meandering diatribe culminating in 12lbs of horse sh*t and three dozen confused readers.

I frankly have no idea what you are trying to do. I have received more comprehensible correspondence from Mr Obuwonga Mwahahu, who i believe wishes to give me a 10% share of his $12M fortune held in the royal bank of Nigeria.

Tom

10% HA, I got offered 50%

[quintus]

Maybe Shingoshi should be banned till he dows something usefull and not BS-ing this forum.

[Shingoshi]

Provided they could handle the pressures involved, how difficult would it be to modify them to function as condensers?

I would use two of these to dump this system's heat.

EDIT: Actually, I've figured this out on my own! None of the refrigerants will ever leave the internal environment of the case. Instead, I will isolate the high-pressure refrigerant stream by using another set of heat-exchangers as my internal condensers. The heat from them will then be disposed to boil a transfer fluid which will be evaporated and sent to the external radiators. There will be little pressure on these external units. They will only act as very large radiators for very large heatpipes. Situation solved.

Assembly Components (Listed in order of assembly):
2x 3" T-BOLT SS HOSE CLAMP 3.31"MIN/3.62"MAX DIA.
1x PVC-80 SOC WYE
2x 3" T-BOLT SS HOSE CLAMP 3.31"MIN/3.62"MAX DIA.
1x 3" MPT X 3" HB POLY 90 DEG HOSE BARB BANJO
1x 3" POLYPRO/EPDM THR X THR BLACK BULKHEAD FITTING
1x 3" MPT X 3" HB POLY STRAIGHT HOSE BARB
1x 3" T-BOLT SS HOSE CLAMP 3.31"MIN/3.62"MAX DIA.

These parts may be changed if better options are found.
EDIT: This is the next sub-system to be built. I have to build this before anything else to verify that I can indeed get rid of all this projected heat.

Shingoshi

[Shingoshi]

Maybe Shingoshi should be banned till he dows something usefull and not BS-ing this forum.

What more than this do you need to know that this project is a reality?
My case:
[IMG=http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9858/dsc00008kni.th.jpg]
Internal Components:
[IMG=http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7770/dsc00010daw.th.jpg] [IMG=http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/5505/dsc00011kds.th.jpg] [IMG=http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2443/dsc00015lnk.th.jpg]
[IMG=http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/3843/dsc00017r.th.jpg] [IMG=http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1033/dsc00018rxr.th.jpg]
If that doesn't help you, I don't care what will!

And if anyone of you have better ideas of how to manage the requirements of this system with fewer components, let me know. I'd like to see a list of what you'd be willing to settle on to get by with less.

As for me, I'm still working.
Shingoshi

[Shingoshi]

1.) 6 compressors + 8 cpu's How many watts is that to reject ? You said 1 external condenser/w/fan, how big is that.

2.) Can you draw a simple line drawing with all that's listed above connected to each other. Just square blocks and lines,nothing fancy. Then label what they are.

3.) Oh one more thing since this is going to be a "Cryogenic" cooler, how are you going to deal with oil freezing ?

1.) See the question above about my condensers.
2.) Working on that.
3.) I will be very content with a stable-state system running at -120F.

Shingoshi

[Naja002]

Provided they could handle the pressures involved, how difficult would it be to modify them to function as condensers?

I would use two of these to dump this system's heat.

Shingoshi

# 100% brand new. Never been tried or installed.
# Made with super light weight high quality 6061 Aluminum.
# Easy direct bolt-on installation, require NO modification.
# Universal Front Mount Style Intercooler to fit most car
# Mandrel blend for high flow and high horse power and better turbo response power.
# Dimensions: 32" X 12" X 3"
# Inlet size is 3 inches.
# Installation Instruction is not Included.

32"X12X3 UNIVERSAL TURBO INTERCOOLER ECLIPSE GSX GST SI

[ultralo1]

how difficult would it be to modify them to function as condensers

Why ask, you have not listened to anything that you have been told so far.