Can anyone rate the primochill Typhoon III?

[BoxGods]

WOOOOT, OH HOT DAM!!!. Looks like we cross posted AHAHAHAHA.

Crossing ma fingers for the big read. Wait 70 seconds? NOOOOOOO

[skinnee]

13 minutes late...you're gonna stick me on 13 minutes.?

first the short and skinnee joke now 13 minutes, jeez.

[bluehaze]

finally...

skinnee labs - PrimoChill Typhoon III

Thanks for the review skinnee, good read. Any plans to do testing of dual loops with a Y coming off the other tops going back into a res with dual inlets as a base of comparison? Just seems like a more realistic comparison and better way to see what advantage the T3 really provides. Comparing dual loops against single loop is kind of like tying one hand behind your back in a boxing match

Did you notice any temp difference using the T3 with dual loops versus the other tops with single loop?

[skinnee]

Thanks for the review skinnee, good read. Any plans to do testing of dual loops with a Y coming off the other tops going back into a res with dual inlets as a base of comparison? Just seems like a more realistic comparison and better way to see what advantage the T3 really provides. Comparing dual loops against single loop is kind of like tying one hand behind your back in a boxing match

I thought this at work today, and we discussed it earlier in this thread...its not needed, but I will run some just to prove out Vapor's math. But I am moving my lab to a new room this week, earliest I can get to it is maybe this weekend.

Did you notice any temp difference using the T3 with dual loops versus the other tops with single loop?

I didn't run any thermals, that would've taken weeks longer.

[bluehaze]

I thought this at work today, and we discussed it earlier in this thread...its not needed, but I will run some just to prove out Vapor's math. But I am moving my lab to a new room this week, earliest I can get to it is maybe this weekend.


I didn't run any thermals, that would've taken weeks longer.

K, Thanks man very curious about it. Appreciate all the work your doing here!

Cheers

[skinnee]

Actually...if you're curious still, you should go back and reread some of the posts in this thread...Vapor explained the math. Running those tests will only take more time away from testing other blocks/pump/rads etc, to put a chart to the facts already discussed.

I'm not saying that to be rude, just my tail is getting to big of a backlog...and thats not good if we want to continue to see more reviews from skinnee labs.

[BoxGods]

Skinnee, thanks for spending SO much time with the T3. No doubt at all that Martin made the right choice for his successor.

Blue Haze; Does that mean I get to add Y's to each of the T3 loops for a little Quad loop love? Obviously the Typhoon III has the flow power to pull it off

And just in case you guys missed the video cause the page switched:

http://geno.boxgods.com/MVI_0358.divx

Again, Thanks a lot for the great review Skinnee.

[skinnee]

, my pleasure!

[Review] Typhoon III (forum version)

[millertime359]

Keeping in mind I designed the T3 (in the interests of full disclosure) I can give a pretty good idea of the results of a head to head.

PQ curves will look great for the DDC dualie. In real world usage, the much more restrictive CPU blocks will like the higher pressure the DDC's bring to the table. GPU's, rads, and lower restriction cpu blocks will like the better flow rates of the T3. To my mind, even if you have a restrictive CPU, your GPU's and rad/s are going to want the better flow...How do you loop two DDC's so that they can leverage their pressure edge? It will depend on your loops, the T3 will win some (more in my mind =) and the Dual DDC will win others. I think the fact that T3 does it with one LESS pump, and the fact that it is the quieter and the one generally considered more reliable makes it the much more elegant solution.

Again, just my biased opinion

Those are thoughts exaclty. Even if it is slightly better than the T3, it will cost you more than the T3 because of buying a second pump. So taking in account the whole thing. T3 seems to be the better value.

[Utnorris]

Keeping in mind I designed the T3 (in the interests of full disclosure) I can give a pretty good idea of the results of a head to head.

PQ curves will look great for the DDC dualie. In real world usage, the much more restrictive CPU blocks will like the higher pressure the DDC's bring to the table. GPU's, rads, and lower restriction cpu blocks will like the better flow rates of the T3. To my mind, even if you have a restrictive CPU, your GPU's and rad/s are going to want the better flow...How do you loop two DDC's so that they can leverage their pressure edge? It will depend on your loops, the T3 will win some (more in my mind =) and the Dual DDC will win others. I think the fact that T3 does it with one LESS pump, and the fact that it is the quieter and the one generally considered more reliable makes it the much more elegant solution.

Again, just my biased opinion



Yeah, I have watched DB shaving off the weight with such dedication that I ALMOST feel like loosing some weight myself. I am not ashamed to say DB, VERY proud of you for sticking with it man.

Ah well, looks like Skinnee didn't make it tonight for the review

To make up for it, here is a little video of the results of glue trial 4.

And yes, I added a top AND bottom port for grins. I would move them over closer to the sides on the next one. Since Bei Fei was obviously WAY unhappy and has NO problem expressing himself about things that piss him off, this particular unit is on its way to him.

geno.boxgods.com/MVI_0358.divx

I spoke with Brian about making a version with the top port available on ModdersMart and/or the PrimoChill store available for a slight premium for those users with very large or heavy cases. He said he wouuld consider it.

Just curious how you tapped it, just used a drill bit and simple G 1/4" tap?

Thanks,

[BoxGods]

Just curious how you tapped it, just used a drill bit and simple G 1/4" tap?

Thanks,

Or a laser and a tapping arm.

First cut a hole through the top of the T3 large enough to recess the top of the plug.

I then added a 1/4" thick acrylic circle inside with a 29/64" hole, bonded to the inside of the reservoir (obviously the 2 holes need to be aligned concentrically) then tapped.

[GregSG]

Looks like its a hot product.

Primochill site OOS for all 3 models.

Darn it.... most resellers OOS already....

[bluehaze]

Actually...if you're curious still, you should go back and reread some of the posts in this thread...Vapor explained the math. Running those tests will only take more time away from testing other blocks/pump/rads etc, to put a chart to the facts already discussed.

I'm not saying that to be rude, just my tail is getting to big of a backlog...and thats not good if we want to continue to see more reviews from skinnee labs.

No, I read it all that is why I am curious, Vapor posted his math then Boxgods disagreed with it so I don't think any conclusion has actually been drawn nor can it be until we have a comparison vs another top running two loops. As it stands it seems you would get similiar performance via adding a Y to the outlet of the pump and having each loop dump back into individual ports on the res.

Nevertheless I don't want to beat the horse here so if you don't have time to do the testing I will drop it. I am sure someone will be curious enough to do it eventually. I don't have a d5 or I would try it. Maybe I will try it with my ddc and see what happens, just have to pickup another flowmeter.

Anyways thanks again mate!

[bluehaze]

Blue Haze; Does that mean I get to add Y's to each of the T3 loops for a little Quad loop love? Obviously the Typhoon III has the flow power to pull it off

Well it would kind of defeat the purpose

[BoxGods]

No, I read it all that is why I am curious, Vapor posted his math then Boxgods disagreed with it so I don't think any conclusion has actually been drawn nor can it be until we have a comparison vs another top running two loops. As it stands it seems you would get similiar performance via adding a Y to the outlet of the pump and having each loop dump back into individual ports on the res.

Nevertheless I don't want to beat the horse here so if you don't have time to do the testing I will drop it. I am sure someone will be curious enough to do it eventually. I don't have a d5 or I would try it. Maybe I will try it with my ddc and see what happens, just have to pickup another flowmeter.

Anyways thanks again mate!

I disagreed with Vapor's math? Don't think so lol. He actually worked out the formula MUCH more accurately then I could, and I am told he did it from the back end...MUCH stronger math skills then my "weak sauce" maths.

[bluehaze]

I get what you're saying...but that's not the case.

If you took a loop with a CPU block, a radiator, and other stuff, it would have a pressure drop curve of y= AX^3 + BX^2 + CX + D (well, D=0). If you doubled the components in serial, you would have a pressure drop curve of y= 2AX^3 + 2BX^2 + 2CX + 2D. Basically, you'd double the resistance....

But if you took those same components and split the (doubled up) serial loop into two parallel loops....the overall restriction is much lower than even AX^3 + BX^2 + CX + D (how much so depends on the Y split and all associated with that).

But because the restriction drop is so large from going from the doubled-up serial loop to the parallel loop, flowrate through the pump increases. But overall gains in flow are not necessarily imminent. Going in parallel will only increase the flowrate outside of the parallel'd region (by drastically reducing the restriction the parallel'd components create)....as for what happens within the parallel'd components when using a Y-split, the verdict is still out (there should be some cases where it's still beneficial, but not on the scale of what the T3 does).

The reason why the T3 succeeds at doing this is because while another pumptop would require you to add components (and therefore restriction) in order to go to parallel, the T3 is a native parallel design that requires you to add components (and therefore restriction) to go to serial.

EDIT: BoxGods' PEC explanation is the true way to look at it

I don't agree. OK, maybe a more accurate way to say it, but your very first statement WAY back in this thread is the easiest way to understand it. The difference is WHERE the split (for want of a better term) happens. In the Typhoon III it happens in the pump itself.

I disagreed with Vapor's math? Don't think so lol. He actually worked out the formula MUCH more accurately then I could, and I am told he did it from the back end...MUCH stronger math skills then my "weak sauce" maths.

Guess I misunderstood then The math is all french to me anyway

[BoxGods]

AH, I was not disagreeing with his math, was this part "EDIT: BoxGods' PEC explanation is the true way to look at it" and I was referring to his original statement being the easiest to UNDERSTAND. He has a way of explaining complex concepts in really easy to understand terms.

His math is actually more accurate then the formula I used.

When he used the Term "Through the pump" that really is an excellent way of explaining how a T3 does dual loops compared to placing a Y before and after a pump. Certainly easier for most to understand then the math formula.

I DO see where it looked like I was not agreeing whith his math the way I wrote my post though.

[bluehaze]

AH, I was not disagreeing with his math, was this part "EDIT: BoxGods' PEC explanation is the true way to look at it" and I was referring to his original statement being the easiest to UNDERSTAND. He has a way of explaining complex concepts in really easy to understand terms.

His math is actually more accurate then the formula I used.

When he used the Term "Through the pump" that really is an excellent way of explaining how a T3 does dual loops compared to placing a Y before and after a pump. Certainly easier for most to understand then the math formula.

I DO see where it looked like I was not agreeing whith his math the way I wrote my post though.

Well I have to say I really enjoy discussing this with you, it is refreshing to be able to have a civil discussion over the internet with discerning points of view as opposed to the typical flamewars that usually end up taking place. Much respect to you and Primochill as well for that, you guys seem like a really great company.

When you say "Through the pump" doesn't the pump still have one inlet and one outlet? It's not really possible to have a Y "in the pump" it either has to be before or after. Obviously having a Y both before and after is going to net you nothing because you end with the same restriction you began with. The advantage seems to come in from having the res at the end of the loop and having both the loops then dump back into the res without going through another Y. Thus allowing the res to act as an expansion chamber of sorts giving free flow to each loop individually without the restriction at the end.

[BoxGods]

Well I have to say I really enjoy discussing this with you, it is refreshing to be able to have a civil discussion over the internet with discerning points of view as opposed to the typical flamewars that usually end up taking place. Much respect to you and Primochill as well for that, you guys seem like a really great company.

When you say "Through the pump" doesn't the pump still have one inlet and one outlet? It's not really possible to have a Y "in the pump" it either has to be before or after. Obviously having a Y both before and after is going to net you nothing because you end with the same restriction you began with. The advantage seems to come in from having the res at the end of the loop and having both the loops then dump back into the res without going through another Y. Thus allowing the res to act as an expansion chamber of sorts giving free flow to each loop individually without the restriction at the end.

Yes and no. If you look at the helix (or spiral involute if you prefer lol) in the T3 it is MUCH deeper then a normal D5 Top. Almost double. Because I could not make it any wider (again the D5's impeller dictates the with of the waters path) I pretty much cheated and made it deeper so that I could DOUBLE that primary outlet and get a lot more water into the PEC. The PEC regulates the pressure as close to the pump head as I could get it so there is not a huge pressure loss.

The rest Skinnee covers pretty well in his article. basically the portion of the loop that is actually inside your pump is doubled. If you do the Y method on a regular pump top, the entire loop (loops) may be doubled, but the section through the pump is still the single, or same flow as before.

Think of it like this. Obviously there is no Y inside the pump, but the single line that there is in there is the same volume (or close to it) as 2 lines would be. So when the dual loops of the T3 come together and pass through the pump, the volume of that section is still near the volume of 2 lines or loops. In the Y method on a regular top that line is just one lines worth of volume. Thats the restriction Vapor is talking about, not the restriction from the Y fitting itself, but the base leg of that Y "section", or the length of you loop that runs through the pump.

And yeah, I love talking about this stuff too lol.

[bluehaze]

Yes and no. If you look at the helix (or spiral involute if you prefer lol) in the T3 it is MUCH deeper then a normal D5 Top. Almost double. Because I could not make it any wider (again the D5's impeller dictates the with of the waters path) I pretty much cheated and made it deeper so that I could DOUBLE that primary outlet and get a lot more water into the PEC. The PEC regulates the pressure as close to the pump head as I could get it so there is not a huge pressure loss.

The rest Skinnee covers pretty well in his article. basically the portion of the loop that is actually inside your pump is doubled. If you do the Y method on a regular pump top, the entire loop (loops) may be doubled, but the section through the pump is still the single, or same flow as before.

Think of it like this. Obviously there is no Y inside the pump, but the single line that there is in there is the same volume (or close to it) as 2 lines would be. So when the dual loops of the T3 come together and pass through the pump, the volume of that section is still near the volume of 2 lines or loops. In the Y method on a regular top that line is just one lines worth of volume.

And yeah, I love talking about this stuff too lol.

So you are saying the size of the chamber coming off the pump makes the difference? Because the hanging point for me which we discussed before was that the water will take the least path of resistance. So in a free flowing loop the chamber would aid the flow by allowing more water to be fed through each loop with the pump being the only restriction, with that I agree.

However once you add restriction to the loop that is now the governing factor of your flow. Therefore as long as the flow coming through the Y was greater than the restriction through each loop you wouldn't even need a chamber because the water will fill each loop until equilibrium is reached.

In otherwords, just throwing numbers out there, if you have a pump able to flow 5gpm and a Y able to flow 4gpm, now run two loops off that y each with a restriction no greater than 2gpm and both loops dump back into a res removing the restriction at the end of the loop, you will have 4gpm flowing "through the pump" with no chamber at all on the outlet (open loop) because the Y is the restriction.

Now introduce a restriction greater than the Y to each loop and say you have two loops each restricted to 1.5gpm so the max you can possibly flow through these loops is 3gpm and you throw them on the pump flowing 5gpm through the Y flowing 4gpm. In this case your pump can flow 5gpm your Y can flow 4gpm so the governing restriction is the dual loops that flow 3gpm combined. Your flow rate is now determined by the restriction of the indivdual loops not by the Y, nor the pump, nor by any chamber in between the individual loops and the pump correct?

In otherwords your pump can still flow the full 5gpm because there is no restriction at the end of each individual loop, it's getting fluid from the res so is capable of starting each pass through the loop fresh with the full 5gpm capablity.

Is there something wrong with this train of thought?

[Utnorris]

Looks like its a hot product.

Primochill site OOS for all 3 models.

Darn it.... most resellers OOS already....

Jab-tech has 4 left. Not sure if he will ship international though, but you can drop John an email and ask him.

[ProStock]

Hey BoxGods Quick question when these products will be avail on the market & where thx ?

[BoxGods]

So you are saying the size of the chamber coming off the pump makes the difference? Because the hanging point for me which we discussed before was that the water will take the least path of resistance. So in a free flowing loop the chamber would aid the flow by allowing more water to be fed through each loop with the pump being the only restriction, with that I agree.

However once you add restriction to the loop that is now the governing factor of your flow. Therefore as long as the flow coming through the Y was greater than the restriction through each loop you wouldn't even need a chamber because the water will fill each loop until equilibrium is reached.

In otherwords, just throwing numbers out there, if you have a pump able to flow 5gpm and a Y able to flow 4gpm, now run two loops off that y each with a restriction no greater than 2gpm and both loops dump back into a res removing the restriction at the end of the loop, you will have 4gpm flowing "through the pump" with no chamber at all on the outlet (open loop) because the Y is the restriction.

Now introduce a restriction greater than the Y to each loop and say you have two loops each restricted to 1.5gpm so the max you can possibly flow through these loops is 3gpm and you throw them on the pump flowing 5gpm through the Y flowing 4gpm. In this case your pump can flow 5gpm your Y can flow 4gpm so the governing restriction is the dual loops that flow 3gpm combined. Your flow rate is now determined by the restriction of the indivdual loops not by the Y, nor the pump, nor by any chamber in between the individual loops and the pump correct?

In otherwords your pump can still flow the full 5gpm because there is no restriction at the end of each individual loop, it's getting fluid from the res so is capable of starting each pass through the loop fresh with the full 5gpm capablity.

Is there something wrong with this train of thought?

Your going to have to loop up with the Y's and see for yourself because I cant think of any other way to explain it. The D5 produces XXX amount of power. To move the same volume of water through a smaller pipe at the same speed requires more power. If more power isn't available, go with a bigger pipe...the "pipe through the T3 is B I G G E R lol.

When they say the Y is the restriction, they mean the section of the Y's through the pump itself.

[Vapor]

When they say the Y is the restriction, they mean the section of the Y's through the pump itself.

Yes!

[millertime359]

Looks like its a hot product.

Primochill site OOS for all 3 models.

Darn it.... most resellers OOS already....

So glad I didn't procrastinate like I usually do then

Seems BoxGods needs to go crack the whip over at Primochill