Selling ES processor is a risky business.

[hipro5]

People selling the samples are the reason why we can not support stuff like the F1 championship of OC, it is not about money, it is about trust and respect of the rules.

1) they are selling something they don't own.
2) The person buying it does not get a real CPU ... even if he think it is a better CPU, it is not!
3) They are making money on something they did not pay for.4) They get their friends into trouble in the company that gave them the samples ...

They do the same commerce with AMD parts.

It is ok to sell processors as long as they are not ES, what is so difficult to understand that ... It is like Nissan or Honda let you try a car ... and while you try the car, you go and sell it on ebay.

The people selling the ES hurt the OC community, the day they understand that, we will be better OFF.

So, yes, we are changing the sampling ... we now have full tracability, and it is sad, but we are going to use it.

and of course, it has to be a french guy who does this! @!#$%@!@#$%

HELOOOOO!!...... PLEASE WAKE UP!.....

1. I have PAID 1000 Euros for EACH ES......
They are MINE.......
I WORKED HARD to make money to PAY for them...
INTEL DIDN'T SEND THEM TO ME!........
I PAID them and they are MINE......I can do whatever I like with them....
I PAID THEM.......PERIOD...

Most of the samples sold are not the one we distribute via press sampling, neither the rare sample given to overclockers for marketing activities. Those people respect the rules.

WAKE UP once again......

I have bought mine from your "trusty press sampling" channel who ACTUALY (by your words) RESPECT THE RULES.......
1000 Euros EACH.......Come and get them.....!...
P.S. 1. a.IF Intel didn't wanted to happen things like that, they should take back the samples they have sent.....
b. When YOU INTEL guys had "WAR" with the AMD guys back in the age of Northwood, you provided ESs to EVERYONE out there, NO?....

P.S. 2. Sorry I didn't woke up good today and reading things like these are just breaking my tense nerves today...

[boblemagnifique]

People selling the samples are the reason why we can not support stuff like the F1 championship of OC, it is not about money, it is about trust and respect of the rules.

1) they are selling something they don't own.
2) The person buying it does not get a real CPU ... even if he think it is a better CPU, it is not!
3) They are making money on something they did not pay for.
4) They get their friends into trouble in the company that gave them the samples ...

The people selling the ES hurt the OC community, the day they understand that, we will be better OFF.

So, yes, we are changing the sampling ... we now have full tracability, and it is sad, but we are going to use it.

and of course, it has to be a french guy who does this! @!#$%@!@#$%

This is wrong, contact Intel Fr and asked if they sent me a 975XE ES please . You will have the answer ... thank you to inform you before

you tell me that Intel had sold the 975XE these partners ... He should have followed these ES so ... strange no ?

I pay as many cpus (ES/OEM/BOX) to find the Golden Chip but it's very hard , i don't have a contacts for the GREAT ES as some people here.

You want me to take as an example to scare others, I am ok (my First pc ES sell in ebay ) ah ah ah I have really bad luck then francois has seen my item and not a others sellers ES ...

It would be nice also to prohibit the Sellers Pro China that sell 100's of CPUS ES Mobile on EBAY, strangely they are not afraid of you and continue within the law (It's not hypocritical that ?) No ...

These people win enormous sums of money, I lose money in finding the best chips, we don't play in the same category

Now I await the result, I am guilty, I accept it but I would not be condemned alone

Ps : Please Francois stop now to speak of scores ES CPUs , same with my Ex WR 3dmark 2005 with a 940 B0 ES, you have to do enjoy your jokes and criticize AMD by the U.S.A press or by Facebook. And now it's the scandal for me for 1pc sell , let me laugh ...

[hipro5]

@ boblemagnifique: I'm with you M8......
and IF Intel "throughs out" some clowns to pick up their unpickable shi(f)t, I PERSONALLY will LEAVE INTEL, join AMD with ALL my soul and give them HELL as for the benches.......AND THEN let Francois or every Francois out there telling fairy tales.....

THEY (Intel) OWE to me......I DON'T OWE to THEM........
I was the one (if not the only one) who was giving a REAL WAR back to the age of the AMD 64s to prove that Intel STILL exists....
....and NOW I read these shi(f)ts from them?.....

[boblemagnifique]

HELOOOOO!!...... PLEASE WAKE UP!.....

1. I have PAID 1000 Euros for EACH ES......
They are MINE.......
I WORKED HARD to make money to PAY for them...
INTEL DIDN'T SEND THEM TO ME!........
I PAID them and they are MINE......I can do whatever I like with them....
I PAID THEM.......PERIOD...



WAKE UP once again......

I have bought mine from your "trusty press sampling" channel who ACTUALY (by your words) RESPECT THE RULES.......
1000 Euros EACH.......Come and get them.....!...
P.S. 1. a.IF Intel didn't wanted to happen things like that, they should take back the samples they have sent.....
b. When YOU INTEL guys had "WAR" with the AMD guys back in the age of Northwood, you provided ESs to EVERYONE out there, NO?....

P.S. 2. Sorry I didn't woke up good today and reading things like these are just breaking my tense nerves today...

it's True Georges , most buying ES guys , Intel gives priority in the ES to the press and not to the Overclockers ...

We must pay our money we earned working. But NO We resells because donated by Intel CPUS just to make money like the big retailers on eBay or other sites ... The Overclocking isn't a passion but a Business for a living ... it's ridiculous

It's easy to attack the final users then the first to traffic at the exit of the production chain and partners ..

[Bobsama]

From the low-end bystander's perspective...

Intel: turn around now with these ridiculous doubling+ prices for 10% higher clock speeds. I am running an E2140 because your profit margin has to be through the roof. Right now, to quite a few builders, Intel is sucking big time. I was more impressed with building a Phenom II X4 940 BE system for my friend then I have ever been building an Intel system. He spent not $900 and got an unlocked chip, more RAM then he will need for years, and a box of other nice, high-end parts. Couldn't do that with Club Blue. I disagree with how Intel's splitting up their sockets (remember your competitor's mistake a few generations ago? Socket 754 versus 939?) and the general pricing on chips. Truth be told, I am absolutely appalled about the price for a pair of Xeon X5550s. $1000+ for a dual-socket Core i7 920? That chip is sold for $280 for single-socket, so what in the hell justifies a 3.64x increase in price? Same goes for i7 920 versus i7 940... that was the biggest rip-off I've seen in years, and I'm sure that your sales numbers say something similar. A 10% increase in clock speed for a 100% increase in price is hardly a reason to "step-up" to a faster chip. Not with the 940, not with a 15% increase for 100% more for the 950. It's simply not worthwhile. For the numbers these chips reach versus the actual manufacturing price, I am sorely disappointed that (from a business standpoint) Intel isn't milking 45nm for all it's worth. After hearing plenty here and seen plenty in the real world, I have to say that Intel's made me into an AMD man, just like nVidia's laughable practices have made me into an ATI (now AMD) man. It's been 8 months since Core i7 launched and tray prices haven't dropped all that much.

[4Qman]

I bet a million bucks you have top paid employers at Intel who have built there friends/family PC's using ES chips........ Is this not stealing??????

If your not liking it then stop making ES's all together and watch your retail sales drop. simple...

[gillbot]

Intel sees the OC community as an enemy because people are out buying and reselling these ES chips. I don't understand why they are coming down on the end user and not the retail channel person who leaked these to begin with. They are the ones making all the money off of something they don't own.

If the OC user paid for his ES, of course he is going to try and sell it to recoup some costs when he is done. Maybe there should be an intel grace period where intel would replace an ES with a retail. That would get the end user a retail chip and it would get intel the ES so they can determine where it was leaked from. The leaks need to be stopped at the source, not with the end users. Coming down on the end user is just bad press and will paint intel as evil, especially as seen by the comments already in this thread.

[dinos22]

WOW francois WTF

[TheGoat Eater]

wow - seems all this thread has done is to create anti-Intel sentiment among some of your top Intel benchers and crunchers , and why are you so vocal and up in arms about ESs when AMD is not making waves on this?

[celemine1Gig]

Well, as much as I would hate to see them punish boblemagnifique, you have to understand that there always have been rules. It was known for ages that selling ES is against the law. It is Intel's property and always will be.
They seem to have watched the ES situation for quite some time, but now must've decided that it would be time to act. To change things, you have to give all the people doing wrong and example what happens if they get caught. It honestly seems quite dumb by bob to sell the CPU on eBay NOW and especially this type of CPU (they normally are only interested in ES sales concerning current CPU models). It was practically like asking for punishment. You wouldn't go into a police station and sniff a line of cocaine off one of the desks there, would you (exaggeration of course; just for illustration; exceptions prove the rule )?

If what Francois said is true (the part about bob having been warned before), then I really can't understand why he still did it. I mean I understand that there are far more serious problems with ES CPUs out there, than him selling 2 or 3. As already mentioned, guys selling them in quantities of hundreds. But the the point is: Don't play with matches if you don't want to get burnt!

I just hope that bob's punishment will be relative to the deed and not solely to make an example out of his case to scare away others of doing the same.

And to hipro5 and all the others who, I think, misunderstood Francois's intention in one way or the other:
IMHO Intel has to adress the situation in some way, if they really want to start working on the problem. So Francois tried to tell the people here what the risks are and that Intel actually is looking into the problem. What they do besides this forum post is not upon us to judge. And as I understand, they are not really after the people who BUY the ES CPUs at high prices (hipro5 and all the others), BUT instead after the poeple who get the CPUs nearly for free and then SELL them with a hefty profit. Anyway, how should Intel know and care about what you paid for a CPU that is not meant to be sold at all. If they see you sell a CPU for 1000$, they know you sold something that does indeed belong to them for 1000$ and was never meant to be sold anyway. You can't really argue that you bought it for the same price.

The conclusion to Francois's posts could be something like that:
Don't ever SELL a current Intel Engineering Sample CPU! And if you really think that you absolutely have to BUY one, then keep in mind that it will never be your property and Intel can ask for its return any day.

I do agree with what was mentioned many times before, though: It is up to Intel to change the policy of handling ES CPUs, internally, if they are actually trying to adress the problem properly. Just getting one or two guys punished for selling a single CPU on eBay won't change a thing. Get the big guys and not the small fish, if you want to be taken seriously in the long run.

[zalbard]

IMHO ES chips shouldn't be sold AT ALL in any case... But since people say that they are paying to get ES chips from Intel to test them, then I don't see issues reselling them. On the other hand, if you guys only paid for shipment and not CPUs themselves...

[Buckeye]

Well, as much as I would hate to see them punish boblemagnifique, you have to understand that there always have been rules. It was known for ages that selling ES is against the law. It is Intel's property and always will be.
They seem to have watched the ES situation for quite some time, but now must've decided that it would be time to act. To change things, you have to give all the people doing wrong and example what happens if they get caught. It honestly seems quite dumb by bob to sell the CPU on eBay NOW and especially this type of CPU (they normally are only interested in ES sales concerning current CPU models). It was practically like asking for punishment. You wouldn't go into a police station and sniff a line of cocaine off one of the desks there, would you (exaggeration of course; just for illustration; exceptions prove the rule )?

If what Francois said is true (the part about bob having been warned before), then I really can't understand why he still did it. I mean I understand that there are far more serious problems with ES CPUs out there, than him selling 2 or 3. As already mentioned, guys selling them in quantities of hundreds. But the the point is: Don't play with matches if you don't want to get burnt!

I just hope that bob's punishment will be relative to the deed and not solely to make an example out of his case to scare away others of doing the same.

And to hipro5 and all the others who, I think, misunderstood Francois's intention in one way or the other:
IMHO Intel has to adress the situation in some way, if they really want to start working on the problem. So Francois tried to tell the people here what the risks are and that Intel actually is looking into the problem. What they do besides this forum post is not upon us to judge. And as I understand, they are not really after the people who BUY the ES CPUs at high prices (hipro5 and all the others), BUT instead after the poeple who get the CPUs nearly for free and then SELL them with a hefty profit. Anyway, how should Intel know and care about what you paid for a CPU that is not meant to be sold at all. If they see you sell a CPU for 1000$, they know you sold something that does indeed belong to them for 1000$ and was never meant to be sold anyway. You can't really argue that you bought it for the same price.

The conclusion to Francois's posts could be something like that:
Don't ever SELL a current Intel Engineering Sample CPU! And if you really think that you absolutely have to BUY one, then keep in mind that it will never be your property and Intel can ask for its return any day.

I do agree with what was mentioned many times before, though: It is up to Intel to change the policy of handling ES CPUs, internally, if they are actually trying to adress the problem properly. Just getting one or two guys punished for selling a single CPU on eBay won't change a thing. Get the big guys and not the small fish, if you want to be taken seriously in the long run.

Very well thought out post

[hipro5]

@ celemine1Gig: One question.
I paid 1000 Euros for an ES CPU....
Is it MINE or Intel's OR we are some kind of "partners" into this?
When Intel come one day and ASK this cpu from me, they HAVE to PAY me 1000 Euros to take it back...
There were days back in the past that I was collecting money to buy an ES Northwood and I REALLY didn't have money to buy food to eat or cigarettes to smoke only to buy this cpu......
.....and NOW they come and tell us this bulls?.....

As I said above, Intel send your representatives to get MY ES CPUs and I assure you that they will leave my place with an "AMD stump" on their head...
COME AND GET THEM...

[AndreYang]

I sold a lot of ESsssssssssss Intel cpussssssssss. Intel sued me, please.

[K404]

Im sure that Intel have an idea where most of the distributed ES are coming from.

You could go after individuals with 1-2-5 CPUs and make no friends

OR

keep an eye on the people closest to Intel who you think are taking the mick.

One or two ES recalls from your immediate system builders/ whoever just to check quantity should put the frighteners on everyone else.

Make sure the fine is >> the benefit of selling the ES in the first place and the problem should dwindle fairly quickly.

You can make examples of people but do it at the top please, not the bottom.


When fighting a war- Monitor and contain the deployment whilst completely cutting off their supply.

[hipro5]

I sold a lot of ESsssssssssss Intel cpussssssssss. Intel sued me, please.

[celemine1Gig]

@ celemine1Gig: One question.
I paid 1000 Euros for an ES CPU....
Is it MINE or Intel's OR we are some kind of "partners" into this?
When Intel come one day and ASK this cpu from me, they HAVE to PAY me 1000 Euros to take it back...
There were days back in the past that I was collecting money to buy an ES Northwood and I REALLY didn't have money to buy food to eat or cigarettes to smoke only to buy this cpu......
.....and NOW they come and tell us this bulls?.....

As I said above, Intel send your representatives to get MY ES CPUs and I assure you that they will leave my place with an "AMD stump" on their head...
COME AND GET THEM...

Well, I totally understand your situation. I think Intel has absolutely no problem with you having the chips in your posession (not that I would be affiliated with Intel in any way; just a poor student trying not to learn for his exams ).
I even think that it's quite the contrary. They sure would love to see you have even more ES CPUs if only enough people at Intel knew about what you (already) achieve(d) with them. Sadly enough you might be a legend here and you'll have my respect until the day I die, but I highly doubt that any high ranked Intel employee knows what to make of the name "hipro5".

The real problem is in the middle men who sell you what they don't own! They ask big money from you, although they are not allowed to and even cause you the problems, described in this whole thread. You shouldn't even be mad at Intel, but rather at the one who sold you an ES for such a hefty price. The message that Francois wanted to give might have come out wrong in some way. I really don't think that he wanted to accuse the top overclockers for having ES chips or even for buying them.

[Chad Boga]

@ celemine1Gig: One question.
I paid 1000 Euros for an ES CPU....
Is it MINE or Intel's OR we are some kind of "partners" into this?
When Intel come one day and ASK this cpu from me, they HAVE to PAY me 1000 Euros to take it back...

Isn't what you have done the equivalent of paying for stolen goods and now thinking you don't have to return those goods to the rightful owner?

[hipro5]

Isn't what you have done the equivalent of paying for stolen goods and now thinking you don't have to return those goods to the rightful owner?

No....It's the equivalent for paying for "given" (or paid) goods and now thinking I don't have to return those goods to the rightful owner BECAUSE NOW I'm that OWNER......

[Chad Boga]

No....It's the equivalent for paying for "given" (or paid) goods and now thinking I don't have to return those goods to the rightful owner BECAUSE NOW I'm that OWNER......

I haven't been paying close attention to this thread as I am not passionately interested in the issues being discussed, but seeing how a number of people have reacted has piqued my curiosity a bit, so can you correct me if my assumptions below are wrong.

1. Intel doesn't allow for ES chips to be sold by anyone.

2. People who may not have received the ES chip from Intel are now trying to sell them, thinking that because Intel didn't give them the chips directly(they acquired it from a third party), that they should be able to sell these chips without "interference" from Intel.

[sirheck]

[celemine1Gig]

No....It's the equivalent for paying for "given" (or paid) goods and now thinking I don't have to return those goods to the rightful owner BECAUSE NOW I'm that OWNER......

Unforunately according to the law, you are only in posession of the CPUs, but you will never be able to actually own them, unless you buy Intel as a Company.
Your thinking is wrong here, although I can understand why you think the way you do. Intel shoud've intervened in this whole shady Engineering Sample business a long time ago, in order to not even let it come this far. They didn't do, so now they have to try correcting the previous error. The problem now is to handle the situation carefully enough, because as this thread has shown they might get very bad publicity if they punish the wrong guys for the right reasons. Good compromise would be the word of the hour, I think.
A good plan concerning this matter could save them a lot of trouble and still get the problem corrected.

[systemviper]

To respond by the numbers;


The bottom line here is that we aren't your enemy.
We are not the ones dealing in mass quantities of ES chips making hundreds of thousands in profit on them.
I'll guarantee you that I'm not.
I think there's $100.00 in my checking account right now and maybe 50% of what I've made in the last 6 months has gone to computer parts.
There's an old expression that fits well here:
'Your so busy bending over picking up pennies that you don't see the dollar bills falling out of your pocket."

TRUE

[systemviper]

IF your (Intel) guys from INSIDE, didn't SELL these ES CPUs by 100+, then all the other users couldn't sell them as well....
FIRSTLY "clean" your INSIDE selling of the ES pieces and THEN make these statements...
Because you (Intel) CAN'T sell these ES and then ASK not to be sold again in the open market.........
You're doing it FIRST.....
All the other words are totaly bulls.......
"CLEAN" YOUR "inside" guys and everything will be cleaned.....

I just love it when people state the obvious..

I've got mixed feelings here.
I've met this guy. Good people.
Hard working OC'er with great talents.
I would hate to see Intel come down on him.
In fact I would hate it to the point where I'd never spend another dime with Intel.
That isn't the PC thing to say in this thread but thats how I feel.
About time for someone to stand up and say the truth here instead of being polite as I and others have.
This will probably hurt me personally but i'm not going to stand by quietly and watch a major corporation go after a individual and say nothing.
Francois:
Here's the facts of the world we live in.
You folks send out hundreds or thousands of ES chips yearly to companies to use to validate their products plus some to individuals for reviews and ot testing.
Nothing the matter with that at all.
It's what you have to do to stay in business .
Then lets get to the real world where most of us aren't in the 6 figure income bracket such as yourself.
We have passions for a hobby or in my case that and the desire to try and rid the world of diseases so our kids live longer and happier lives.
Someone offers me a pair of cpu's at 1/2 what they would cost retail and you think I'm going to say no?
Do I care if they say ES on them or SE? no.
They do the work I need done and thats the bottom line.
If the seller made money on what he sold me thats up to him.
What I see is that I get machines built and doing the work that never would have been built and to me that is all that matters.
Now you and I get along and I respect you position but if Intel brings down the weight of the company on boble then I'm done with Intel and will do what I can to convince others to walk away from Intel also.
Sorry, but that is exactly how I feel.
These are my personal feelings and in no way am I representing Xtremesystems with my comments.

It all starts with......INTEL. Any policy revision, procedure, handouts, freebies, you name it...IT ALL STARTS WITH INTEL!!! This is where the changes have to be made. They don't walk out the door by themselves. No disrespect to the OP but clean up your own house before worrying about the neighbours. Sorry, just had to say this.

OMG, i just came back to this thread, what a change, now they are targting people we know. aGAIN intel created a monster and have to step on us to fizx it.... wtf.

[boblemagnifique]

The message that Francois wanted to give might have come out wrong in some way. I really don't think that he wanted to accuse the top overclockers for having ES chips or even for buying them.

Personnaly , i have meet francois in CES , i speak a few time here or facebook , he know my nickname and he see then overclocking a CPU ES for broke many WR.

he waited until the end of my sales report me (I know very well that he had already seen my ad before), he contacted me a few hours after it ends for me he had denounced ...

Ok it's my fault , i accept but I don't like how he ... I am ashamed to be the same nationality as him, sincerely ...

Now If Intel contact me for the CPU, I want that is the same for ALL the sellers on eBay and especially Pro Sellers who sell 100's of cpus and who earn their living on the ES and especially those who sell directly from Intel or Partners. => This the REAL PROBLEM