Confirmed: Feser 1 Blue Premix + GTZ = do NOT want

[NaeKuh]

bwahahahhaa...

okey theories...

the heat is allowing the dye to participate out along with the ethyene glycol.

The participate then gets pumeled and filtered though your injector and causes the dye to separate and get deposited back onto the block.

(of course i can be totally wrong)

but 5 days is way too fast.

[Darth_Penguin]

bwahahahhaa...

okey theories...

the heat is allowing the dye to participate out along with the ethyene glycol.

The participate then gets pumeled and filtered though your injector and causes the dye to separate and get deposited back onto the block.

(of course i can be totally wrong)

but 5 days is way too fast.

But if the answer is simply heat shouldn't this be happening to other people? Im not dismissing your theory, just wondering why others haven't had this same issue this quickly.

[NaeKuh]

because while most people have a variable heat load...

Ian has a constant high heat load from WCG.

Or the block being hot all the time, can cause the dye to deposit on it faster?

[shazza]

because while most people have a variable heat load...

Ian has a constant high heat load from WCG.

Or the block being hot all the time, can cause the dye to deposit on it faster?

I dunno ... can it be as simple as that. As I said, mine has been under a constant heat load for almost 3 weeks ... no issues yet. Something else is going on here, or else there is a threshold temp at which decomp starts ...

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

I think its a bad batch of coolant now....

[Darth_Penguin]

I think its a bad batch of coolant now....

I was just going to ask if you are using the same bottle of coolant from before?

[kiyka]

I think its a bad batch of coolant now....

Used the same coolant!?
Way to test a scientific theory.

[Freonor]

Thats what jeweller called the silver wire he made for my loop, first time I had heard that. Its used for 99.9% silver.

A silver wire... A colloid? He pulled your leg pretty hard

Colloids are fluids. It's just like Naekuh said. They're nanofluids. It's just tiny particles suspended in a liquid.

[WaterFlex]

...what is in the rad if blocks look like hell? 0_0

[MulletBoy]

have you had a chance to have any discussion with Feser on this yet snipe?

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

nah, I havent talked to feser...

Tonight I am gonna break down the system again -_- well see where the dye went this time when I get to take pics.

[Jupiler]

SNiiPE :

Did your Primochill Pro LRT tubing got clouded (kinda pinkish color) with the Feser blue stuff?

[WaterFlex]

I used Feser UV dies (yellow, then red), Feser Corosion Blocker, Feser One Blue, Feser Heat Carrier. I don`t have such problem.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

SNiiPE :

Did your Primochill Pro LRT tubing got clouded (kinda pinkish color) with the Feser blue stuff?

I did not see any signs of pink on the tubing and it didn't look clouded when I had the loop apart, but I will be sure to look again when I take it apart this time

[Jupiler]

I'm asking because I took apart my system to install my new 280GTX.
I only had Feser UV Blue for a little more than 2 weeks in the loop, and I noticed that my Primochill 7/16" Pro LRT was clouded and looked pinkish.
I was kinda surprised to see this happen after only 2 weeks.
I tried cleaning one piece of tubing but Cilit Bang (I always use it to clean tubing), but it didn't help.

[bluehaze]

yes, everything was exactly the same, except I cleaned it all thoroughly

I thought we had pretty much narrowed it down to the anti microbial in the primochill lrt? You should try it with a different type of tubing, probably get much different results!

[millertime359]

I think its a bad batch of coolant now....

Well if you keep wanting to play Guinea Pig, order another bottle of UV blue and lets see what happens.

[NaeKuh]

I'm asking because I took apart my system to install my new 280GTX.
I only had Feser UV Blue for a little more than 2 weeks in the loop, and I noticed that my Primochill 7/16" Pro LRT was clouded and looked pinkish.
I was kinda surprised to see this happen after only 2 weeks.
I tried cleaning one piece of tubing but Cilit Bang (I always use it to clean tubing), but it didn't help.

scrubbing bubble ddominate on tubing.

[vvulture]

Hey SNiiPE, you still with us ?? Busting to know what you found this time around...

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

Yeah I should get the loop drained sometime soon.... hopefully before monday

[Jupiler]

I would like to try it out but unfortunately, scrubbing bubbles isn't available over here, only in the US.

scrubbing bubble ddominate on tubing.

[brammers]

Pipe cleaner, plastic tube, epoxy resin, washing up soap and elbow grease FTW



J

[LiQuidator]

because while most people have a variable heat load...

Ian has a constant high heat load from WCG.

Or the block being hot all the time, can cause the dye to deposit on it faster?

Heat causes chemical to leach from plastic

By Liz Szabo, USA TODAY

A new study may provide a clearer picture of how a controversial chemical called bisphenol A leaches out of plastics.

Concern over bisphenol A, or BPA, has grown since August, when a government panel expressed "some concern" that the ingredient — used in some plastic bottles, dental sealants and linings of metal cans — causes neural and behavioral problems among children.

The study in today's Toxicology Letters provides evidence that heat — not frequent use — may pose the greatest problem. Previous studies have shown that repeated wear and tear — such as running baby bottles through the dishwasher — makes BPA leach out of plastic, says the study's main author, Scott Belcher of the University of Cincinnati

In the study, new and old bottles filled with room-temperature water released the same amount of BPA. When scientists exposed new and used bottles to boiling water, however, they released BPA up to 55 times more rapidly than before heating.

Reference: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...chemical_N.htm
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NaeKuh! Your observations have been supported by a scientific study!

Amazing! Heat accelerated the leaching process 55 times more rapidly when compared to room temperature!

I believe that the speed in which SniiPE DoGG's system was contaminated can be partially explained through the heat of his system and especially the hottest area - the processor. (the CPU water block which just happened to be the most heavily effected area).

It would be very helpful to us if we new what the exact temperatures were.

I believe that their were other culprits involved in the speed in which the contamination took place.

Acidity

A few comparison's in pH values:

Distilled water PH 7.0
Lemon Juice PH 2.3
Vinegar PH 2.4 - 3.4

pH is measured on a scale of 0 to 14. Water that is neutral has a pH of 7. Acidic water has pH values less than 7, with 0 being the most acidic. Likewise, basic water has values greater than 7, with 14 being the most basic. A change of 1 unit on a pH scale represents a 10 fold change in the pH, so that water with pH of 6 is 10 times more acidic than water with a pH of 7, and water with a pH of 5 is 100 times more acidic than water with a pH of 7.

You might expect rainwater to be neutral, but it is actually somewhat acidic. As rain drops fall through the atmosphere, they dissolve gaseous carbon dioxide, creating a weak acid. Pure rainfall has a pH of about 5.6.

Why is the pH of water important?

Effects on animals and plants

Most aquatic animals and plants have adapted to life in water with a specific pH and may suffer from even a slight change.

• Even moderately acidic waters (low pH) may reduce the hatching success of fish eggs, irritate fish and aquatic insect gills and damage membranes.
• Water with extremely high or low pH is deadly. A pH below 4 or above 10 will kill most fish and very few animals can tolerate waters with a pH below 3 or above 11.
• Amphibians are particularly vulnerable to low pH, probably because their skin is so sensitive to pollutants. Some scientists believe the recent drop in amphibian numbers around the world is due to low pH levels caused by acid rain.

Effects on other chemicals in the water

• A change in the pH of water can alter the behavior of other chemicals in the water. The altered water chemistry may affect aquatic plants and animals. For example, ammonia is relatively harmless to fish in water that is neutral or acidic. But, as the water becomes more basic (the pH increases) ammonia becomes increasingly toxic.

• Heavy metals such as cadmium, lead and chromium dissolve more easily in more acidic water (lower pH). This is important because many heavy metals also become much more toxic when dissolved in water.

Reference: http://extension.usu.edu/files/publi...wq_2005-19.pdf
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The above statement would seem to indicate that pH levels in the acidic range would not be good for water cooling systems. As acidity increases - so does the leaching of metals.


Leached Copper

Here is a reference showing the effects of Copper on Nemotodes as it is leached into an agroecosystem

LONG-TERM EFFECTS OF COPPER AND pH ON THE NEMATODE COMMUNITY IN AN AGROECOSYSTEM

Four copper (0, 250, 500, and 750 kg Cu·ha−1) and pH (4.0, 4.7, 5.4, and 6.1 in 1 M KCl) treatments were applied to an arable agroecosystem. Effects on the nematode community were assessed after 10 years of exposure under field conditions. Both copper and pH had major influences on nematodes. The effect of copper was generally enhanced with decreasing soil pH. The lowest copper application rate which had a significant negative effect on the total number of nematodes was 250 kg·ha−1 at pH 4.0, which is equivalent to a copper concentration of 0.32 mg·L−1 in 0.01 M calcium chloride (Cu-CaCl2). Species composition and the abundance of trophic groups were more sensitive than the total number of nematodes. Combinations of high copper and low pH significantly reduced the number of bacterial-feeding nematodes, whereas the number of hyphal-feeding nematodes increased. Omnivorous and predacious nematodes showed the most sensitive response, becoming extinct when Cu-CaCl2 was 0.8 to 1.4 mg·L−1. Plant-feeding nematodes showed the largest differences in abundance and appeared to reflect the effects of copper and pH on primary production. The results suggest that the nematode community was also affected indirectly by copper and pH via other components of the soil food web. It is concluded that nematodes offer excellent perspectives to assess effects of pollutants at the community level.

Reference: http://www.setacjournals.org/perlser....3.CO%3B2&ct=1
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Acidity is not good for a water cooling system!

Leached copper (excessive) is possibly not good when it contradicts with leached chemicals within a cooling system!

It is also import to remember that the pH scale is exponential.

A second and third accelerator process has been introduced into SniiPE DoGG's cooling system. And another cause of why the waterblock was the most heavily contaminated component.


Plasticizers

I will not go into detail on this as most are familiar or should be familiar with this.

This process was definitely accelerated within SniiPE DoGG's cooling system.

Fourth accelerator added to the degradation of SniiPE DoGG's cooling system.

Reference: http://www.setacjournals.org/perlser....3.CO%3B2&ct=1
Reference: http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/NEWSC...phthalates.htm
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Possibilities


PrimoFlex Pro LRT UV Blue Tubing - 1/2in. ID X 3/4in. OD

PrimoFlex Pro LRT is designed and manufactured to exacting standards for today’s high performance PC water cooling systems. Low Radius Technology allows for tighter bends without the kinking that can cause cooling failures or reduce performance. Our special Anti-Microbial formula helps keep your cooling loop pristine—which keeps flow rates up, reduces maintenance, and just flat out looks better.

PrimoFlex Pro LRT wouldn’t be the choice of pro modders and high performance water coolers if it also didn’t have killer looks and excellent sub zero performance. Available in an ever increasing range of UV colors as well as Clear, PrimoFlex Pro LRT stays flexible even when subjected to the lowest temperatures.

Our proprietary blend of extremely low durometer PVC (polyvinyl chloride) and a more rigid polymer resin gives PrimoFlex Pro LRT its unbeatable bend ratio and durability. Even under exacting laboratory set-ups with abrupt small radius bends and multiple direction changes, PrimoFlex PRO LRT tubing resists twisting and collapse—a common problem when using other lesser brands.

PrimoFlex Pro LRT – Choice of the Pros, because everything else is just tubing.

This 1/2" Inner Diameter (12.7 mm), 3/4" Outer Diameter (19.05 mm) tubing has a wall thickness of only 1/8 inch (3.17 mm). Price is per foot.

Specifications:

* LRT (Low Radius Technology) - Patent Pending
* Performs well at low temperatures
* Anti-Microbial
* Inner Diameter -- 1/2"(12.7 mm)
* Outer Diameter – 3/4"(19.05 mm)
* Smooth low friction inner bore
* Tack free outer surface
* Zero Print—No unsightly printing!
* Manufactured and Distributed in the USA

Link: http://www.primochill.com/tubing.html
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PrimoChill possibly uses higher phthalates for their PrimoFlex Pro LRT tubing.
The Tubing also includes an Anti-Microbial.

With the excessive heat and acidity these would have been leached more rapidly into the cooling system.


Conflict of Interest?


Feser One - F1 - Cooling Fluid - UV BLUE

Description

Feser One - the only coolant you will ever need!

Perfecting the way you cool your system, safely and paving the way to the future.

Do not mix this coolant with any other aftermarket additives, this may compromise the non conductive formula.

Do not mix colours in this coolant, if any extra UV additive needs to be added use Feser One or Feser View to keep conductivity levels down.

If used for long periods of time the UV properties of this coolant will naturally fade, you can use Feser View UV Dye to fix this.

Do not mix different colour Feser One coolants together, chemical reactions can occur.

No other additives are needed, we have 4 anti corrosives inside!

Regular water changes are advised (maximum 1 year).

Depending on your hose size, type and wall thickness, Feser One may react differently under uv light in different cooling systems.

We have tested this product as replacement coolant in every leading manufacturers watercooling system with great results!

Link: http://www.feser-one.com/site/produc...roducts_id=255
Link: http://www.dangerden.com/store/files.../ex-liq-75.pdf
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These chemicals (4 anti corrosives and the dye) would have contradicted with the PrimoChill antimicrobial and phthalates within the excessive heat and acidity environment. With the excessive heat and acidity these would have broken down more rapidly into the cooling system.

Feser Clearly Warns - that you cannot even mix their own products together.

A fifth Accelerator added to the degradation of SniiPE DoGG's cooling system.


The Trigger

My personal premises is that Sniipe Dogg's cooling system was contaminated through a conglomerate of processes.

1. Heat
2. Acidity
3. Accelerated Copper Leaching (Causing Chemical Contradiction)
4. Accelerated Plasticizer Leaching (Causing Chemical Contradiction)
5. Accelerated Chemical Contradiction Between:

A. PrimoFlex Pro LRT UV Tubing
B. Bad Batch of Feser One

6. Accelerated Chemical Contradiction Between:

A. Bad Batch of Feser One
B. Excessive Leached phthalates
c. Excessive Leached Copper
d. Possibly other unknown entities

The trigger I believe was probably a bad batch of Feser One.

The Feser One chemically contradicted with the leached antimicrobial and phthalates from the PrimoFlex Pro LRT UV Tubing. This process was rapidly accelerated by heat and acidity.

I believe that this contradiction would not and possibly could not have happened as rapidly with a good batch of Feser One. There are just not enough problems showing the chemical contradiction with other peoples cooling systems. Most of these systems however are not generating the heat that SniiPE DoGG's system generated.

Long term use however may still eventually lead to chemical contradiction between the two products.

We need some of the super talent out their to test this. Short term and long term testing is definitely required to validate.

NaeKuh has a strong voice when it comes to chemical perfusion into water cooling systems.

Considering what we have available in turns of tested chemicals within water cooling systems I would have to support NaeKuh's strong voice on this matter.

Every product that introduces chemicals into a water cooling system should have this warning label!

USE CHEMICAL PERFUSION AT YOUR OWN RISK !!!

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

wow, what a post.

I hope I can get the system apart and cleaned out soon and find the problem but as it stands I am super busy, low on energy and gone all weekend :\

[WhiteFireDragon]

LiQuidator, that was one crazy and though out post . no wonder you have only have 7 posts haha. and it looks like you have a pretty strong background on chemistry.